diapers

It’s Awful That We Don’t Help Low Income Families Afford Diapers

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Every now and then, a news piece about a diaper drive kicking off crosses my daily reading, and every time I see that kind of story, I feel conflicted. It makes me happy to know that there are people out there trying to help, and volunteering their time to help take care of tiny, vulnerable people. And at the same time, it makes me incredibly sad to know that this kind of help is needed in the first place. The WIC program is a supplemental nutrition program, and despite the fact that diapers are involved in, shall we say, the “back end” of nutrition, you can’t use WIC to buy them. Without other options, as many as 30% of low income women have admitted to re-using diapers on their babies because they couldn’t afford clean ones, and I have to wonder: how is it that in the year 2014 we still don’t help families to pay for this basic baby necessity?

I remember feeling anxious about how quickly my kids went through diapers in their newborn days. By my calculations, the twins needed about eighteen quadrillion newborn-sized diapers in their first two weeks of life, and the pace has only slightly slowed since then. I can’t imagine not being able to afford the diapers my kids need, and my heart breaks for parents who find themselves in a situation where they have to choose between reusing a diaper and feeding their child, or paying the rent.

But for every person who’s out there organizing diaper drives or donating to them, there’s someone else with an opinion about how the reproductive choices of others are inconveniencing them. There’s the old “don’t have kids you can’t afford” canard:

facebook-comment-you-can't-afford-kidsOf course only rich people should be afforded the privilege of reproduction (as with every other privilege). But how do people justify punishing babies for having inconsiderately poor parents? Don’t we still need to look out for helpless infants even if their moms or dads foolishly lost their jobs or had their hours cut or had a major medical emergency?

facebook-comment-paying-for-diapers-not-fairYeah, paying a portion of your yearly tax bill roughly equivalent to the change in your couch in order to keep babies from stewing in their own urine is a horrible punishment that no just, civilized nation would ever inflict on its citizens!

And of course, there are the brigades of people who want to let poor parents know that all of their problems could be solved by cloth diapers.

diaper donationUnless of course they need to work and can’t find or can’t afford a day care that will use cloth diapers; or they can’t afford the initial investment that cloth diapering entails. I’m also curious how, exactly, these new-fangled cloth diapers don’t require a lot of laundry time (especially for people without the luxury of a washer and dryer in their home); do they come with a self-cleaning switch like ovens do? A fact that a lot of well-off people can’t seem to get through their heads is that being poor is expensive as hell. (Look up the “boots” theory of socioeconomic unfairness when you get a chance.) Cloth diapers are a great option for people with a certain amount of time and money; they’re also a solid fallback choice for people whose main interest in is in hearing and doing something about the problems that low-income families have to deal with.

And so we’re left with diaper drives. Low income families shouldn’t have to rely on the kindness of strangers to diaper their children, but that’s where we’re at as a country: in a place where the suffering of babies is deemed acceptable because of the contents of their parents’ wallets; where children are expected to go without clean diapers so that I don’t have to go without an extra few dollars in my tax refund; where families in need are told their fate is in their own hands if they would just make choices that aren’t really available to them in the first place.

(Image: Laboko/Shutterstock)

445 Comments

  1. Katherine Handcock

    September 1, 2014 at 2:16 pm

    Okay, as a cloth-diaper user with both my kids, the idea that it’s the perfect solution for low-income families is nonsense. I had 30 of the small size, and I had to do laundry for them every two days. I could do that because I had a washer and drier in my house. The combination of washing and drying took nearly 2.5 hours because I used an extra rinse to ensure that detergent build-up didn’t start affecting their absorbancy. If you are a low-income mom with a young baby, you can’t be going to the laundromat every two days — even running to a downstairs laundry room that often would be hard. And that’s not even addressing the high up-front cost of the diapers, plus the challenge of paying out of pocket in quarters rather than just running the machine. Cloth can help, but it’s not going to be the solution unless there is laundry in a mom’s apartment.

    I’ve spoken about it before on Mommyish, but please, instead of donating food to your local food bank, donate hygiene products — diapers, but also pads, tampons, soap, toothbrushes and toothpaste, shampoo, all that stuff that you never think about because you just buy it. Many food banks are not allowed to use money donations for anything other than actual food, so they are constantly short of hygiene products.

    • AugustW

      September 1, 2014 at 2:18 pm

      I considered cloth for mine but at the time we lived in an apartment with laundry in the basement and you could only do laundry from 10am to 5pm…..and I was at work on those hours.
      Plus, daycare wouldn’t change cloths.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 2:28 pm

      When I worked in daycare no one would change cloth. I think a few home daycare might now, but most centers won’t.
      And laundromats won’t let you wash cloth diapers. They consider it a health hazard. Same with many communal laundry rooms in apartment complexes. So if you are poor and don’t have a washer/dryer in your home it’s hand washing, which takes forever.
      His idea with the donations.

    • BarleyD

      September 1, 2014 at 4:44 pm

      I just got paid <-$7500 by working part time off of a lap-top b­­­­­­­­y ­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­G­­­­­­­­­­­­oog­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­­l­­­­­e­­­­­­­­­­­­­.I­ a­­m ­­­­­­­­­m­­a­­k­­­­i­n­­­g ­­­­­­­­­a ­­­­­­­­­go­­od ­­­­­­­­­sa­­la­­ry ­­­­­­­­­fr­­­om ­­­­­­­­­h­­.o­­m­e ­­­­­­­­­$­­5­5­0­0­­­­­­­­­-­­­­­­­­­$­­7000/w­­­­­e­e­k..L­­­ast Thursday I got a brand new BM­­­W since getting a check for $647­­­4 this – 4 weeks past. I beg­­­an this 8-months ago and imm­­­ediately was bringing home at lea­­­st $97 pesdr hour. I wo­­­rk thr­­­ough this link, go to tech tab for work det­­­ail­­­

      ————————————–

      Here ­­­­­­­­­is ­­­­­­­­­I ­­­­­­­­­started—–http://www.googleonlinework/2014/1/9…..,..
      >
      ——————————————————-

    • Linzon

      September 1, 2014 at 5:05 pm

      There’s a charity in my area geared towards providing low income families with cloth diapers, and while I can applaud the idea I just can’t see how it’s practical for everyone, or even the majority. It was enough of a pain in the ass hauling my own clothes to the laundromat on the bus when I was single and childless, I can’t imagine having to do that with kids, every other day, while probably working, and if I could even find a laundromat to use, etc. Similarly to Yellow in the Facebook comments in this article they never address how to clean your diapers if you don’t have access to suitable laundry facilities.

    • allisonjayne

      September 2, 2014 at 10:53 am

      I was a cloth diaper user as well (and for us it was for sure cheaper, which was our main motivator – we sold our stash when we were done), but:

      We were lucky enough that my family got us a wee little apartment-sized washing machine for our baby shower, so it was super-easy for us (we hung them to dry).

      We’re lucky that we live in a building that allows washing machines, and we don’t pay for water. If we’d had to go to our laundry room downstairs, at $1.25 a pop (not to mention that we live in a 3rd floor walk-up) every other day, or go to the laundromat?

      And we were lucky to find a daycare that accepted cloth. And I live in Canada so I got a year of mat leave.

      If we didn’t have all those things? Yeah, cloth diapering would not have happened.

  2. AugustW

    September 1, 2014 at 2:20 pm

    I literally donated plasma twice a week for diaper money when my kiddo was younger. It sucked, and not every mom has that option. It’s so easy to be disqualified.
    If you have a Catholic Charities in your town, check them out. They tend to be very baby friendly. Mine would give you diapers every month. Not enough for the month, but they helped.

  3. CrazyFor Kate

    September 1, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    In addition to these drives, one of the best gifts you can give new parents is a whole bunch of diapers. Way better than yet another silly frilly outfit or their eighth copy of Goodnight Moon!

  4. rockmonster

    September 1, 2014 at 2:29 pm

    Silly goose, no-one ever starts out well-off and falls into poverty! That’s a lie perpetuated by libtards and banks! Everyone knows that God magically protects you from getting poor once you have kids!

  5. Jennie Blair

    September 1, 2014 at 2:42 pm

    I’m not sure how cloth is great for low income families, I’ve spent so much money buying diapers this summer I’m scared to even try to figure out the total. I also have my own washer/dryer so that will help, but they are expensive and if I had to leave my daughter at a daycare I would probably feel a lot of anger that I still have to turn around and buy disposable. Wic should include diaper vouchers, if it goes in its bound to come out.

    • Lindsey

      September 1, 2014 at 2:44 pm

      Cloth diapers, using essentially what our grandparents used, can be really cheap.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 3:18 pm

      But if you are trying to work and send your child to daycare, finding a subsidized daycare that will use cloth diapers could be very difficult.

    • Lindsey

      September 1, 2014 at 3:19 pm

      Yeah, I know. I added that to my original comment.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 3:20 pm

      Oooookay…but I’m just responding the one you wrote to Jennie Blair?

    • Lindsey

      September 1, 2014 at 3:22 pm

      I know, I said that cloth diapers can be really cheap, but are a big investment and daycares are notoriously bad for using cloth diapers, especially ones that are not pocket diapers.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 3:23 pm

      Right. I refreshed the page and your edit showed up.

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 3:25 pm

      So, I work in affordable housing (on the Federal side now but I’ve worked in all aspects of it) – the majority of the complexes being built DO have laundry facilities…as well as the rehabs. The issue comes in with people using Section 8 vouchers. Because they can go wherever they want, they might pick a place without laundry facilities. It can be controlled when properties are being built/rehabbed with federal funding but unfortunately not with Section 8 vouchers.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 3:36 pm

      Plastic pants used to be commonly. They’re like little shorts to go over cloth diapers to keep stains from clothes

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 6:31 pm

      Many laundry mats won’t allow you to wash disposable diapers in the washers either.

  6. amo

    September 1, 2014 at 2:47 pm

    My issue is I have many low income friends who are on the brink of losing everything and would or will reuse diapers, yet they still go out to eat, or spend money on junk they don’t “need” its exactly why I stopped donating to the food bank, after watching a few people pull up in their 2014 brand new vehilces and fill the trunk with food, I decided I would put my money into other programs. People say that this is only how a minority of low income people act but in my area, I would say its at least 50%.

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 3:07 pm

      50% of the people in your area who need to use a food bank have brand new cars?

    • Lindsey

      September 1, 2014 at 3:10 pm

      It’s not like it’s that much more expensive to have a new car than a used car, and if you factor in maintenance, the costs go way down. If it is the choice between a car that starts every time and gets them to work on time, which mean that they can actually afford food and clothing or a car that breaks down regularly and forces them to miss work and possibly lose their jobs, who’s going to choose losing their job.

      amo-
      Who the heck are you to decide what a person needs? Just because a person is poor, that means that they deserve to live in abject poverty, with no entertainments, until they get out of poverty? Well, guess what, people who live like that can no longer work, because of health problems and instability. A person needs entertainment and enjoyment in life. Look it up.

    • SunnyD847

      September 1, 2014 at 3:56 pm

      Especially if you have a newer car that includes free scheduled maintenance, you can save a lot.

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 4:15 pm

      True story. Once my car hit the five-year mark (and was therefore well past the three-year factory warranty), I started having to spend enough money that most likely equaled the cost of flat-out buying a used car. Plus, I hear all these commercials on the radio for low-interest payment plans on new cars, whereas most people who are selling their cars directly expect cash up front, so if you’re limited on how much you can drop at once, might as well get the new car with all the warranties and maintenance schedules factored into the hopefully-low-interest cost.

    • Maria Guido

      September 1, 2014 at 3:12 pm

      Once you are poor, you relinquish your right to decide what kind of stuff you need – didn’t you get the memo? Everyone around you gets to decide that, obviously. Gah.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 3:53 pm

      In a way, yes. When you live off of other people’s charity, then your choices are limited. I am not being mean; I am simply pointing out the reality of it.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 4:14 pm

      Are you saying that people living off charity should have unlimited choices?

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 4:18 pm

      Sigh. No. I am saying that low-income people can decide what they want to spend their money on without some asshole, who knows nothing about their actual situation, judging their decision to go out to dinner. They don’t have unlimited choices, they know this…but they are allowed to make their OWN choices.

      Obviously, they can’t go into a food bank demanding filet or expect to get a penthouse with their Section 8 voucher…but that doesn’t happen.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 4:21 pm

      Okay, but if someone is going out to eat all the time, and at the same time claiming they cannot afford diapers, then I feel perfectly comfortable “judging” that person a complete and utter bullshitter. Low income people cannot decide what to spend their money on if the end result is that our tax money subsidizes those decisions. If a poor person goes out to Red Lobster three nights a week, and then asks for diaper money, then guess what, I do not consider that fair, and it is certainly not THEIR choice and that point. It is also a horrible spending decision on their part. And I feel totally entitled to be the “asshole” who “judges” those people for it.

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 4:29 pm

      You do know that when a low income family cannot pay their portion of the rent they are held accountable for that, right? They can be evicted. There are consequences for their “horrible spending decisions.” I don’t judge you for your poor spending decisions and I don’t judge low income people, either. As much as you want to think that one person who cheats the system impacts your tax dollars, it really does not…the outliers suck, but they are outliers. And once again, I would like to reiterate that you never know anyone’s situation unless you are their caseworker or the intake specialist.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 4:40 pm

      I never said I knew everyone’s situation. I was making a (perfectly legitimate) point about being comfortable judging someone who wastes their money on things they do not need and claims that they are too poor to afford diapers. If you are going out to eat, then you are not too poor to afford diapers. My point is that people who demand charity, cannot simultaneously demand that they have all the choice in the world as to how they spend their money. It is immoral to demand charity and then piss away money on unnecessary things.

      If I blow my money on something stupid, then that IS different from a person living off charity who does the same thing. When I blow my money on something stupid, it only affects me. When someone living off charity does it, it affects all the other people who have to subsidize that decision. Poor people and wealthier people do NOT have equal decision-making powers when it comes to how to spend money. I wish the reality of this life were different, but it isn’t.

      I can take my whole family out to lobster and steak tonight (I won’t actually) and still afford every single thing my family needs without charity. A poor person cannot do that. They are not entitled to that.

      And, I grew up poor and had lots and lots of “beans and rice” times. I wore used clothes and my mom drove a crappy old car. We were very careful with our money then and never, ever spent it on anything frivolous. I actually credit that upbringing for having as much as I do today.

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 4:44 pm

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 5:10 pm

      The funny part is that I’m listening to Alt.Latino right now.

    • ChillMama

      September 1, 2014 at 4:47 pm

      Well, no matter how many people may wish it were not the case, poor people do have equal decision-making power if they decide to blow whatever money they have. It may cost them more dearly, but people spend their own money how they please.

    • Benwhoski

      September 1, 2014 at 5:07 pm

      “I never said I knew everyone’s situation. I was making a (perfectly legitimate) point about being comfortable judging someone who wastes their money on things they do not need and claims that they are too poor to afford diapers.”

      You certainly decided that you knew enough of a person’s situation based on what car they showed up to the food bank in to decide whether or not they were worthy of food assistance, despite there being plenty of other explanations for it than “How clever I am! I just bought a new car while you all pay for my groceries! Muahahah!”

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:11 pm

      If someone has money- no matter how they got it, as long as it’s legal- they’re allowed to spend it however they like.

      You can’t seriously be this obtuse, can you?

    • Lindsey

      September 1, 2014 at 6:03 pm

      But was your mom happy? Because stress kills just as much as hunger and increases the likelihood of many chronic diseases and increases the chance of mental health problems. Happiness is worth value as well and eating out once in a while, if it makes someone happy, does not mean that the money is going away.

      Furthermore, you seem to be basing your entire hypothetical on what amo said in the beginning, and I think the rest of us agree that the situation she described is, at best, unlikely.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 8:38 pm

      She was no more stressed out that someone with a car payment they can barely afford. We did go out to eat actually. We even took vacations (camping of course).

      Back then, of course, I did not know anyone else in our position who had a new car. That was totally unheard of. If you are low income, then getting a new car just makes you poorer.

    • DB

      September 1, 2014 at 7:42 pm

      I literally spent the last 30 minutes reading this thread and you have given me the most horrific headache I can’t even… I’d hate to see what you’d say about my own current situation, but at the same time I really couldn’t bring myself to give a fuck about your opinion.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 8:51 pm

      No, it doesn’t. These programs are income-based. The amount of WIC and other welfare programs is based on your income. You get the same amount of money, aid, whatever, whether you squander it or not. If you get $100 a month in food stamps and spend it on two lobster dinners, or on 200 boxes of generic macaroni, you still only get the $100. So, you are not affected by the choices someone makes with the benefit they receive.

    • CMJ

      September 2, 2014 at 11:30 am

      I’m always astounded that people think that people on assistance are consequence free if they can’t pay rent or use all their food stamp money….they can’t just go get more….

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 4:35 pm

      Right. Everybody does that. But hell, if a few do, let’s end the whole system. More than a few rich people cheat on their taxes, so let’s just stop having taxes.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 5:07 pm

      So…how are the governments of the world going to get any revenue?

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:35 pm

      God knows, but as long as Rose White doesn’t have to pay for it, why does she care, since it doesn’t affect her, after all.

    • Blueathena623

      September 1, 2014 at 4:58 pm

      Why do you feel entitled to judging people you aren’t helping? As stated, WIC doesn’t go for diapers. You have made no mention of all of your charitable donations, so if someone spends all their money at Red Lobster and then needs money for diapers, that affects you how?

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 5:29 pm

      I hope you realize rich people cheating on their taxes and making reckless choices are actually costing you much more than the rare person abusing assistance programs.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 8:48 pm

      You don’t know ANY poor person who eats out all the time. Not one. Let’s just put that bullshit to rest. It just didn’t happen.

    • Jem

      September 1, 2014 at 5:19 pm

      They’re still adults who are capable of making decisions for themselves and for their families that they deem to be the right decisions. Being poor does not take away your decision making capabilities.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 5:27 pm

      You do realize that government benefits are totally based on how much you make? Not how much you make after your car payment and iBill?
      And many charities require you to prove your need? You have to show some proof of income, you can’t just drive up and get food.
      Maybe that family decided to make the choice to get a good car because one of them is commuting two hours away because they’re staying at grandma’s house for free, and if they don’t have trouble transportation they’ve got no way to get to work because friends don’t want to make a four hour round trip daily. They make that decision, I daresay better than many people who don’t have to worry about affording a rental car if one of their two cars breaks down.

    • Quinn

      September 1, 2014 at 3:56 pm

      I know right? Don’t forget to tell poor people. When I was dangerously poor, I had no idea I had limited options. It’s up to good, responsible (insert rainbow) citizens to point it out.

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 4:09 pm

      #poorsplaining

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 4:34 pm

      Now you’ve made me flashback to the old Character Counts PSAs and their awful, awful oboe.

    • Rachelle

      September 1, 2014 at 5:10 pm

      wtf is a rainbow citizen?

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 5:12 pm

      I thought that @Quinn was adding a rainbow for effect.

    • Rachelle

      September 1, 2014 at 5:23 pm

      *snap* gotcha!

    • Quinn

      September 1, 2014 at 6:06 pm

      Wat.

    • momjones

      September 1, 2014 at 3:58 pm

      I believe that the “reality of it” is that if you do something for others out of charity, then you shouldn’t expect anything in return. Has something to do with Jesus Christ, if I remember correctly.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 4:01 pm

      Okay, well, I personally do not care what Jesus said one way or the other. I am merely pointing out that when you live off other people’s charity, your choices will always be limited by how much charity others are willing to give you. I am not saying not to be charitable, or to expect something in return, I am saying that the reality of life is that there will always be finite resources, and people who are poor and live off charity have especially finite resources.

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 4:02 pm

      Yeah. They understand that. I think they understand that more than almost anyone else.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 4:04 pm

      Okay, so then eventually there will be a limit to how much you can demand. At some other people WILL determine what your needs are.

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 4:07 pm

      Once again, yes….they understand the limits to what they can and cannot have…The only people that should determine what their “needs” are are the people who are doing the intake or their case workers for these programs. Not holly hobby on the street assuming she knows their lives by observing what kind of car they drive.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 4:13 pm

      I was making more of an economic argument, not a moral one. Personally, I think families with babies NEED diapers. I do not think anyone would really disagree. My point is that when you live off charity, then other people determine what your “needs” are based upon what they will give you. If the person who dishes out the charity determines that you do not need something, then, well, you do not get it. Simple as that.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 4:36 pm

      You spelled Simple-minded wrong. I think you left off the -minded.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:08 pm

      I think it’s important to note that this idiot and I are two completely different people.

      I repeat, this person is not me.

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 5:41 pm

      *offers awkward but sympathetic internet pat on the back*

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:42 pm

      This makes me all ragey. So much rage.

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 5:47 pm

      I don’t blame you in the slightest. I mean, I’m getting ragey at those comments, and she’s not even corrupting my handle. >:(

    • Ms.Anne'sNotoriousLadygarden

      September 1, 2014 at 6:52 pm

      DId you just reference Holly Hobby as your man-on-the-street? Because I think I love you now.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 6:58 pm

      *raises hand*
      Who’s Holly Hobby?

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 7:08 pm

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 7:12 pm

      I saw the newer version when was in middle school and assumed that someone was trying to rip off Polly Pocket. *blushes*

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 7:17 pm

      Awww…you’re adorable.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 8:31 pm

      Oh dear lord, this just makes me sad. I know you’re young, but…oh no, so young! It’s this bad-ass chick right here. I had her in actual doll form and her apron had exactly all these calicos on it. I’m truly sad no one has her anymore. Raggedy Ann ring a bell? Please…give me something!!

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 8:37 pm

      Actually, I followed @Elizabeth Wakefield ‘s link and the cover of a DVD jogged my memory.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 8:39 pm

      Relieved. I was starting to feel seriously ancient…

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 4:37 pm

      They’re also living off the taxes they paid into the system for years, and often decades before losing their jobs. That’s kind of the point.

    • Dirty Old Lady Phillips

      September 1, 2014 at 4:48 pm

      Ok, so by your own logic, if someone qualifies for WIC or food stamps or food bank food, even if they have a new car, then that’s none of your business, because by qualifying, they’re receiving what we’re “willing to give them.”

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 5:05 pm

      You can’t use my own logic against me, that’s harassment!

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 4:41 pm

      Th-ThisTh-This person isn’t white roses, is she?

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 4:42 pm

      Nope. Nope. And whiteroses is NOT happy about the similarities.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 4:43 pm

      Thank baby Jesus. May his formula be uncontaminated and forever sweet.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 4:44 pm

      Goodness, think how totally awesome Jesus would have been if he was breastfed.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:03 pm

      Damn straight. I am, I would safely say, pissed as hell about it.

      I was here first, for craps sake.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 6:28 pm

      But why get a brand-new screen name when you can pick up a used one and let the other dummy take the hit?

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:38 pm

      I suppose. I’m not giving up mine, though.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:42 pm

      Why should you? You were totally here first. 🙂

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:44 pm

      Playground rules!

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 6:50 pm

      If someone pops up with something like “mineral beast”…

      http://media.giphy.com/media/kj8M1xRRriY3m/giphy.gif

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 8:28 pm

      She only donated because they called the police on her when she just sat outside with a camera tagging license plates…

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 4:39 pm

      WIC isn’t charity. It’s funded by taxes, which most people who have fallen on hard times due to job loss, divorce, or death of a spouse paid as well. They’re entitled to take from that pot too. It’s also paid by corporations who help create poverty in the first place by moving jobs overseas.

    • Jem

      September 1, 2014 at 5:17 pm

      All of that just feeds into the notion that people are poor because they are stupid, and once they are poor they need people who were smart enough to not be poor to make their decisions for them. The truth is many people are not poor due to stupid decisions.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 5:17 pm

      I lived off other people’s charity when I drove my grandma’s Volvo. It was a much better option than a car payment or any car I could afford at the time.
      Unless you’re paying for the car you shouldn’t worry about how it got there.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 5:22 pm

      If a person’s income is going to a new car, and my taxes are paying for their food and housing, then in essence, I AM paying for their car.

    • Shelly Lloyd

      September 1, 2014 at 5:24 pm

      As someone who has been poor, and have had almost those exact words thrown at her, I’m going to let Mr. Richard Sharpe give you my response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjN8G2FVLRA

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:25 pm

      Oh, sharpe. I love him 🙂

    • Shelly Lloyd

      September 1, 2014 at 5:30 pm

      He is a doll isn’t he?

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:38 pm

      Yes indeed 🙂

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:24 pm

      How do you get that? Food and housing are completely different from transportation.

      Death to poor people! They should all be homeless and sterilized so they don’t pollute your rarefied air!

      You’re a real piece of work. And now I’m going to have to comment after you just to remind people that you are not me. I don’t have time for this.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 5:33 pm

      It’s alright. You’re too awesome to be mistaken for her.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:39 pm

      One hopes. I just have a hard time with the fact that a lurker or a newbie might think she’s me. I’m not this self involved on my worst day,

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:20 pm

      I am only saying that no one who is so poor that they need their food and rent paid for should have a NEW car. Is that really THAT evil of a sentiment? Really? My car is seven years and it does not bother me. Why should it bother someone who is poor? I really do not get this at all.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:21 pm

      It might not be about ‘bothering’ them to not have a new car. It might have just been the best thing for their budget. But the bottom line still remains the same. You are not them. They are not you. You don’t know their financial situation and therefore it’s not your place to judge!

      ETA: Your sentiment in and of itself might not be evil per se, but the delivery is surely lacking.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:22 pm

      Well, I am going to judge anyway. A car that costs $5,000 is cheaper than a car that costs $20,000. You can finance a used car. If you’re poor, and you’re picking the $20,000 car, then you are massively wasting what little money you have.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:23 pm

      Feel free to judge. But if you make your opinion public, we’re entitled to judge you for judging them.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:24 pm

      Go right ahead. I do not mind at all.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:27 pm

      Clearly you do, or it wouldn’t be so important to you that we understand your perspective.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:30 pm

      That does not have to do with you judging me. Actually I am simply perplexed as to why my opinion is SO offensive. People here are acting like I think all poor people should be rounded up and shot. It seems like a bit of an overreaction. I think that poor people should live within their means. I live within my means. I do not understand why poor people are exempt from it. When I was a kid we had a shitty old beater car because we were really poor. So? Seems reasonable to me.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:33 pm

      Because you’re projecting your childhood experience on everyone when every single person, everywhere, has a completely different experience.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 7:40 pm

      I actually do have a clue BECAUSE I grew up poor. Having had the same experience certainly gives me a “clue”.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 7:43 pm

      You mean that you’ve had an identical experience to everyone out there who’s poor? Wow. Who’d have thought it.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 8:56 pm

      No not identical, I just have “a clue”.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 8:58 pm

      Not much of one, apparently.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 9:06 pm

      Sure, let’s keep poor people even poorer my insisting that they need a new car and that they should “spend their money however they see fit”. Yeah, that sounds like a great idea. Low income people will stay that way forever with the thoughts floating around this site.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 9:08 pm

      And let’s judge the crap out of people by assuming that we know their exact circumstances because we were poor once! And let’s assume that they’re squandering our money because they don’t own exactly what we think they should! And let’s rip off someone else’s Disqus name while we’re at it!

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 9:10 pm

      This is my real name. Sorry it sounds a lot like your handle.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 9:11 pm

      Something that perhaps should have been considered before commenting, yes? Especially since you’re pissing everyone off?

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 9:15 pm

      Well the people here need to stamp down their sensitivity a bit. I think it is fine if people who cannot afford diapers get them subsidized. My point is that we need to question when people really “need” that. Why are people so outraged that I think it is fair to ask people to tone down their spending on something unnecessary like a new car when asking for charity? What is just so wrong with that? You all make it sound like I think these people should be executed. For fuck’s sake, I am saying nothing that I do not personally live myself.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 9:18 pm

      I think that’s part of the problem, though. There are a lot of things that I do in my life and it all works out pretty well. But despite all the good things in my life, it still doesn’t give me the right to advocate for everyone else to live their life like me.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 9:23 pm

      I think what I am advocating (whether it be my life or not), is a perfectly reasonable thing for all people to do when accepting charity. Surely it is only ethical and moral to accept charity when you actually really need it? If someone has a $450 a month car payment, and asks for charity to afford $60 a month in diapers, then they obviously can afford the diapers (if they had a cheaper car), and they are therefore being immoral by requesting such charity. That charity should be going to people that actually need it. I seriously do not see what is so wrong and heinous about that position. It seems completely reasonable to me, and I am having a hard time understanding why everyone on this board finds that position to be so ludicrous and evil.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 9:24 pm

      Because you don’t get to dictate who needs it or not. And you’re judging someone based on the kind of car they drive. Surely you can see why that’s superficial?

      Besides, if we all need to calm our tits, why does it matter what we think?

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 9:27 pm

      I never said I got to dictate that. And I feel comfortable judging someone by the car they drive. If you have a brand new car, then you are not hurting for $60 extra a month, and if you are, then your problem is that your car is too expensive, not that you are too poor to afford diapers.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 9:29 pm

      You know what? I’m starting to think you’re thicker than concrete and just hearing what you want to hear. If you don’t understand why we’re all pissed off, it’s because you haven’t been paying attention. And if you don’t understand why I, specifically, am pissed off, I redirect you to my previous comments.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 9:31 pm

      The feeling is mutual. You have not gotten anything I have said either. When a person’s only argument is, “who are you to judge?” I instantly dismiss it. It is the go-to argument of someone with nothing of substance to say, and it infects this board like the plague.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 9:37 pm

      People have given you well thought out, comprehensive reasons why we feel the way we do, and you’re rabbiting on about this and whining that we don’t understand you as though that’s going to make a difference. We understand you perfectly well, we just don’t agree.

      Nobody’s forcing you to stay and comment. But the more you act like a jerk the easier it is to ask why you’re still here, if you hate it so much.

    • ToninaMDC

      September 1, 2014 at 10:14 pm

      If you saw me at my local food bank, you’d more than likely see me putting the goods I received in the trunk of a 2014 Ford Focus. Of course, I’d have that car because my mother loaned it to me, because my ancient Hyundai with 175,000 miles on it would be with my college grad husband at his white-collar, very poorly paid job. But apparently you’d feel comfortable deciding that my family and I don’t need help affording basic necessities, solely on the basis of the sight of me using a late-model car, even though we regularly have to choose between paying for food or vital medications. Just because you’re comfortable choosing to judge people by their vehicles doesn’t make it an intelligent or accurate method.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 9:52 pm

      For my personal belief set, giving has no conditions, no prerequisites, and no standard to meet. You just see someone who is in need and you do what you can to fill that need. Period. Especially something like a food bank where a family who is donating one year might be a recipient the very next.

      My mom and I always adopt a family at Christmastime and we shop and give gifts to them. Sometimes the houses we visit aren’t in terrible neighborhoods and the families look relatively middle class, but regardless, it’s not our place to judge. Perhaps there was a medical disaster, or they were teetering on the edge and then dad lost his job – we just don’t know.

      But in the end, does it really matter? Who cares if the people receiving food had a nice car, or the families who received presents lived in a middle class neighborhood? For me and the belief system I hold, you give with one hand and you pray with another. If people are cheating the system, that’s on their conscious and their heart. But I’m still going to do as I am called to do and give what I can to those in need.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 9:59 pm

      This. So very much this.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 10:08 pm

      I don’t know what else to say, you know what I mean? I think the basis of this comes down to how you view your fellow man. I can’t change that for her.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 10:14 pm

      Exactly. You can’t change someone’s viewpoint if you see it as fundamentally flawed to begin with. Or if they’re unwilling to see other people’s viewpoints.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 9:19 pm

      You’re allowed to have whatever feelings you want to feel. But when you make them public, we’re allowed to comment on them. And we’re allowed to react however we’d like to those opinions. If you don’t like it nobody’s forcing you to stay. And while I do a lot of awesome things, that’s MY life. A free society means that everyone can live as they wish.

      Also, real name or not, it’s bad form to jack someone else’s handle. That’s basic internet etiquette. And considering the fact that you and I have spoken before one would think that would be obvious. I’ve been here for years. People are confused why the hell I’m starting to say things that don’t line up with anything else I’ve ever said.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 9:17 pm

      That’s all part of our master plan. You have figured us out.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 9:23 pm

      Careful there–she might not register that as sarcasm.

    • CMJ

      September 2, 2014 at 11:18 am

      Oh, JFC. Not one person on here is insisting that poor people need new cars nor that they should spend money “however they see fit.” Many people are giving you REASONS why they might have a new car and some goddamn perspective.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 9:10 pm

      Well, that’s a step. Maybe someday you’ll get enough clues to actually solve something.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 9:31 pm

      Jinkies.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 8:50 pm

      *Raises hand* My husband grew up poor, like they went “camping” for a couple summers because they couldn’t afford actual rent camping (and he slept under the tailgate of their truck because they couldn’t afford a second tent) and they bought a new truck because his stepfather was the only one working and his job required him to provide his own truck. If that thing broke down they’d literally have no money coming in, and they’d be drawing unemployment, which is an even bigger draw on the taxpayers than just assistance. Sometimes your car is the only thing between you and needing/getting more government assistance.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:33 pm

      But you still don’t know what their ‘means’ are!

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:36 pm

      Um, if they cannot afford food, rent and diapers, then I have a pretty good idea as to what their “means” are. There a few exceptions, but as a general rule, a person in that situation driving a brand new car is living beyond their means.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:36 pm

      In my next life, I wish to have superior vision and psychic ability like you.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:37 pm

      Wow! Amazing! You are the only person on earth who’s omniscient!

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 7:39 pm

      You do not have to be “omniscient” to make a reasonable deduction that someone who cannot afford to feed, clothe, and shelter themselves, also likely cannot afford a brand new car. It is a completely reasonable assumption. Yes, there are extenuating circumstances, but I have seen this first hand many times over: the poverty coupled with the brand new car that is simply a “must have”.

      If a poor person ever wants to get out of their situation, then buying a new car all the time is the wrong way to go. I have seen so many people fall into this trap. They are caught up in a cycle of short-term thinking coupled with an insatiable need for material things. It is the worst way for a poor person to live if they ever want to get out of poverty.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 7:41 pm

      What we’ve been endlessly reminding you, though, is that your “reasonable deductions” are missing a few basic things, like facts.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 7:45 pm

      Oh right, I forgot, every person with a brand new car who cannot afford diapers is simply going through a temporary hard time after they got laid off from their 6 figure job. Yeah, that happens ALL THE TIME.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 7:47 pm

      Not all the time. Nobody said that. But you’re making some pretty wild assumptions. And you know what they say about those. Unless you have access to everyone’s financial records, assuming things is kind of idiotic.

    • jane

      September 1, 2014 at 9:57 pm

      Ok, now you’re just being an asshole. That does happen all the time. People get sick. Spouses die. Children are born with life threatening disabilities. People are laid off from seemingly very stable jobs. Saying that their poverty or struggle isn’t real just negates the reality of poverty, and creates the false idea that if you play all your cards right it will never happen to you. I played my cards right. Cancer happens anyway.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 2, 2014 at 10:37 pm

      I had a friend, who volunteers at our local food bank on Tuesdays, count how many 2012-ish or newer cars came in.
      Two. Out of 43 total cars. Is it so hard to believe that two or of forty three either fell on hard times or borrowed a car?
      You make it sound like driving through a poor neighborhood would be like driving through a new car lot. That’s simply not the case. You’re arguing that the 5% or so are representative of the group at large.

    • Kelly

      September 2, 2014 at 10:36 am

      I fail to believe that you have seen this scenario play out “many times over” or even, in fact, any times over.

      Bullshit. That is so unlikely that I can’t even begin to understand why we’re discussing it, even if you don’t factor in all of the very good arguments people have made above.

    • Lindsey

      September 1, 2014 at 6:42 pm

      A dependable car is the difference, for many poor people, between keeping their jobs, housing, access to food, etc, and living in a shelter or in their car. In you buy a used car that breaks down and requires a day or more of repairs, you run the risk of losing your job and not being able to pay for the maintenance anyway.

      I live in Minnesota and if my car doesn’t start in the cold, I can call in, because I have a nice job. However, if someone who is poor calls in, their job may not be there the next day. That’s the way it works for many jobs.

    • shel

      September 1, 2014 at 11:45 pm

      How do you know they own or paid for that car? People can borrow vehicles from others, people might have their shitty car in the shop and are driving a rental temporarily. Grandma might have died after buying a brand new car and the got it for no cost.
      They aren’t pulling into the foodbank with a sign that says “I have a $450 a month car payment… where’s my food, bitches!?”
      So judging someone when you don’t know the circumstances doesn’t help the situation.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 11:46 pm

      Preach!

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:24 pm

      There are many more factors that go into purchasing a car than the price.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:26 pm

      Okay, but a brand new car is never going to be better for someone’s finances than a cheaper used one. A poor person who does that will never get ahead and they will never get out of the hole they are in and the taxpayers will continue to subsidize that new car.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:28 pm

      Nope. Still not necessarily true. A new car is going to have warranties on it that a used one might not have. Those warranties could save a person money in the future on repairs and the like.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:31 pm

      Still more expensive than a decent used car.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:32 pm

      Okay. You win. You have outlasted me. Hurray!

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:33 pm

      I feel like I should make everyone on this comment section chocolate chip cookies to apologize for the corruption of my handle.

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 6:43 pm

      But that would be a drain on taxpayer dollars, because we wouldn’t be paying for them ourselves.

      Too tired from following this thread to do anything but sarcasm.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 7:01 pm

      Just get the Toll House pre-made dough. You don’t the trouble of doing it from scratch.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 7:08 pm

      Not your fault at all.
      I’ll still take cookies, though.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 6:59 pm

      Bullshit. I bought a jeep for $5,500 three years ago. It has since cost me $5,400 in repairs (and my husband is a mechanic who does the work in our driveway, so if we had to pay a shop at least double that number). It cannot pass the required emissions for our area, and the repair to fix it takes specialist equipment and is estimated to cost about $5,000 to repair. Do you really think this car has been better for our finances than, say, a $12,000 Kia Soul that would still have two years left on the warranty today and which gets an extra 15 mpg average on a 23 mile one way commute would have been?

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 6:52 pm

      First off, many new cars are in the $10-12,000 range.
      Second, show me a $5,000 used car that isn’t going to cost twice that in the maintenance and gas difference, which puts it on par with the $10,000 new car.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 7:10 pm

      You know what? I admire your dedication to your craft. It takes time and hard work to become this judgmental. Well done.

    • shel

      September 1, 2014 at 11:37 pm

      They might not have been poor when they made the choice on which car was best for them at that time…
      But have someone lose a job and someone else get very, very ill…or other unpredictable catastrophe, then any savings you have can vanish in an instant… and it doesn’t always make sense to get rid of an already mostly paid for newer vehicle to start over on an older ‘cheaper’ car that is going to have much higher maintenance, gas use etc.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:23 pm

      You’re not required to “get it”.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:24 pm

      Sure I am just asking what I have said that is SO offensive. What is unreasonable about expecting people who claim they need charity from not having a brand new car? To me, a brand new car is a total luxury. In fact, it is a luxury that I would get for myself.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:27 pm

      We’ve explained why it’s unreasonable- because unless you know their exact situation it isn’t your place to judge. You don’t. Therefore, your judgement just makes you look like a jerk.

      For the record, this is true of most situations in life.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:27 pm

      But you still don’t know the circumstances surrounding their need for charity. That’s the whole crux of this issue. That’s where this discussion started – with the judgment that people loading food from a food bank into a brand new car shouldn’t be able to receive the food in the first place. There is an inherent injustice in that judgment because it is a one minute glimpse into the life of a person who you know nothing about.

    • jane

      September 1, 2014 at 9:52 pm

      Ok. Example:

      We leased a brand new car in February. Traded in our old car, got a deal that was totally within our means. Three year lease.

      My husband was diagnosed with cancer in March. Couldn’t work full time. Had to go on disability. We didn’t need to go to the food bank, but LOTS of people in our situation might.

      Better deal to break the lease and end up with a) no car so one of us couldn’t get to work or b) buy something used for the same monthly cost as a lease so that you can feel better about it?

      Just because a new car isn’t a luxury you wouldn’t get yourself doesn’t mean it wasn’t the right choice for that family at that time.

      Oh, and my husband was a financial planner at the time. So he’s pretty good at all that budget shit.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 6:33 pm

      I can assure you poor people couldn’t care less what you’re driving.
      However you seem entitled to care what they’re driving. Even though there are many reasons why they’d be driving a new car. Many poor people have an income that depends on their ability to get places. If a broken down car could literally cost you your job of course you’re going to buy the most reliable thing you can afford. Many new cars are not very expensive, dealers will give you a really good deal because car companies want them to sell new cars (often these are better deals than the last year’s models), and they come with worry free maintenance (free oil changes, tune ups, and tires for the first 2-5 years on top of the warranty that covers repairs, and the worry free maintenance isn’t always offered on any used cars even the ones under warranty). I knew a dealership near us that even offered free gas for a year with new car purchase. So yes, a new car can be cheaper than used by a long shot, and if that’s what they can afford that’s what they’re going to get, and it really isn’t your business unless you’re selling them the car and know the terms.

    • Lindsey

      September 1, 2014 at 6:38 pm

      Maybe their car died and they had to buy a car, and they chose a new car, because they park it outside, so they needed to know that it would start every time. Also, they needed to know that they would(most likely) have no maintenance on it, beyond oil changes for at least a year. These are hugely important things if you work at an hourly job.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 6:40 pm

      You do realize poverty can be a temporary state, right? You should really sell your house and your car because you’re out of work for a few months, and are eating DONATED food? Geez, you’re not even talking about WIC here (which they have paid taxes into) but you’re talking about DONATED food. Food that people don’t want or that manufacturers are getting a tax break on. You have some major anger issues from your poor childhood that you need to work out.

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 7:21 pm

      1. People who are low income still pay rent. It is just subsidized. They pay 30% of their gross income towards rent and the subsidy pays the rest.
      2. WIC, food stamps, ebt also does not cover everything.

      People need jobs in order to cover the things that subsidies do not pay for (which is a lot)…in order to get to jobs, people need reliable transportation. I’m sorry that you can’t understand how a new Honda accord that gets amazing gas mileage, is under warranty, and is otherwise cheap to fix is not something a low income person should have simply because it is “new.”

    • Kelly

      September 2, 2014 at 10:33 am

      I don’t think that a large number of “poor people” are running out and buying brand new cars on the regular. This is a problem that is not a problem.

      Just because there are some people who need assistance who also happen to have newer vehicles does not mean that ALL poor people do, or that many poor people do, or that it was an irrational choice for them at the time they made it.

      tl; dr #notallpoorpeople

      FFS

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 5:33 pm

      In many areas, it is damn near impossible to get around if you don’t have a car. Even if you’re lucky enough to live near a major transit center, the next job opportunity might be located two to three hours away by transit but only half an hour away by car. So even if my tax dollars are somehow subsidizing someone’s new car, I’m just enough of an optimist to assume they need it!

    • ChillMama

      September 1, 2014 at 5:37 pm

      Ok then. Subsidize transportation so people in need can spend their income on housing and food instead.

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 5:45 pm

      Subsidize transportation?!? What are you huffin’, you god-hatin’ granola-crunchin’ commie pinko?!?!!!1?!1? :p

    • ChillMama

      September 1, 2014 at 5:47 pm

      Well, I am Canadian, so maybe that explains my wacky ideas… 🙂

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 5:49 pm

      OH NOES!!!!! I MUST GO SHOOT A MOOSE AND PRAY FOR YOUR SOUL LEST I HAVE MY ‘MURRICAN CITIZENSHIP REVOKED FOR NOT DOING SO!!!!

    • ChillMama

      September 1, 2014 at 5:53 pm

      Well, if it is revoked you can always become one of us, eh!

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 6:03 pm

      Oooooooh, pretty pretty please with a cherry on top?!?

      Uh…I mean, I WOULD NEVER EVER TURN TRAITOR!!! ‘MURICAAAAAAA!!!!! *loudly sings “The Star-Spangled Banner, gets kicked out of coffee shop due to inability to hit stupidly high note*

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 8:41 pm

      No one likes a Canada braggart.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 8:43 pm

      I kid, I kid, I’m just jealous because you have nicer things than me…like fancy medicine when you’re sick, and not shooting people for walking on your grass…

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:18 pm

      I think that more cities should have buses and trains actually. I think that is wonderful idea and I support it 100%.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:20 pm

      And if they live in the country then they’re just screwed, huh?

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:21 pm

      Psst. We have horses in the country, obvi.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:22 pm

      Come, Blinkin. Let us leave this depressing foundation. We have much to do and less time to do it in.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 7:34 pm

      I did not say that. I said I think public transportation is a great thing. I live out in the sticks, as it were.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 7:38 pm

      So let’s make the connection here, shall we? Public transport may not always go out to the country, requiring a reliable car.

      Logic-ed.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 7:41 pm

      Yeah, it would be great if it went out into the country too.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 10:31 pm

      Which it doesn’t in a lot of places. But I guess that’s too many facts, huh?

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 8:44 pm

      Poor people should just move to the city where there are buses…and higher rents…but buses…

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 5:48 pm

      If you’re making $15,000 a year what’s the “appropriate” way to spend it?
      That person is making $15,000 a year with our without a car payment, it’s not going to go up because they have a car payment. And you don’t get to deduct the monthly car payment out of your income when applying for assistance. So even if that person wasn’t making payment on a car they’d be making the same exact amount.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:17 pm

      But they do not need a NEW car.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:19 pm

      They do if a new car is cheaper. And thank fuck you aren’t entitled to tell us what we all need.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:19 pm

      We are not saying they NEED a new car, but we are saying that sometimes depending on the financing and the circumstances, a new car might be the best long-term purchase for a person.

    • KatDuck

      September 1, 2014 at 10:40 pm

      Turned out true for us – after one car decided it needed about 2K dropped into it every few months and the replacement vehicle for that saw that 2K and raised it to 4… turned out a like-new pre-loved 2yo vehicle was a reeeeeeeally good bargain.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 7:15 pm

      There are new cars cheaper than used cars nowadays.

    • Lindsey

      September 1, 2014 at 6:17 pm

      That statement is so offensive I can’t even…

      You are not paying for that person’s car. Because that person’s car payments do not come out of their income, and then they get evaluated for WIC or EBT or housing. Those things are based solely on income, not on income minus car payments. Car payments do not come out of that.

      But, let’s play your game for a second. Let’s say they have a 2-year-old car, just bought. There’s no car payments on that, right… Or maybe, they bought a mid 2000s car, on which, they are still making car payments and making payments for anything that is covered under the warranty of my brand-new car. And then, because they had to take a day-off a hourly job, they get fired. Now, they are out of work, because they made the “financially responsible” decision, according to you.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:30 pm

      That is asinine. That is almost as ridiculous as KoolChicken’s comments that since Canadians pay into the national healthcare system, then new mothers “owe” it to the other taxpayers to breastfeed their children because then their children won’t be drains on the healthcare system.

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 6:54 pm

      I’m a federal employee. You’re technically subsidizing my car more than anyone receiving “charity.” Do you get to choose what I drive?

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 6:57 pm

      *gets some of my ice-cold STFU water handy to apply to Rose White’s burn*

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 6:59 pm

      Does she need some aloe vera?

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 7:01 pm

      Well, considering R.W. has shown incredible tenacity here, we might need to get both prepared in case she decides to go in for another round, because I would not want to be the idiot going up against CMJ.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:58 pm

      So by “living off other people’s charity” do you just mean money, or does that include poaching other people’s Disqus names? Because that’s just bad form.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 7:00 pm

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 7:03 pm

      NOW we need the aloe vera for sure!

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 3:32 pm

      I’m being amo lives in an area where there were a bunch of executives in industries that recently had massive layoffs, or industry workers in companies that just decided to move to China if that’s true. Companies love to say everything is great and sound until the day they pull the rug out.
      I’d love to know the percentage of those people who were living as though their jobs were secure when they bought those brand new cars.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 4:40 pm

      Does this woman not have a damn job? She just sits outside the food bank all day tallying makes and models of cars that drive up?

    • Dirty Old Lady Phillips

      September 1, 2014 at 3:11 pm

      Please show your work. I expect a full, detailed survey of all the people in your town who are collecting food bank food and/or other forms of government assistance AND who also own a late model vehicle. Please also include a copy of each of these individual’s registration paperwork, and either bill of sale or lease, proving that the car does in fact belong to them, and that they leased or purchased it after they qualified for assistance. Because, goddamn it, I’ll be damned if I donate 99 cent boxed pasta or canned beans to anyone who drives a car with less than 100,000 miles on it!!!

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 3:12 pm

      Duh. Low income people can’t have anything new.

    • Dirty Old Lady Phillips

      September 1, 2014 at 3:15 pm

      Nope, the minute you become poor, you must sell all of your worldly possessions, move to the projects, and start riding the bus. Also, you should probably get sterilized, but not on my dime.

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 3:16 pm

      I still can’t believe I just read that someone stopped giving to a food bank because someone DARED to drive a new car there.

    • momjones

      September 1, 2014 at 3:17 pm

      I call BULL SHIT that amo gave anything to a food bank in the first place.

    • CMJ

      September 1, 2014 at 3:39 pm

      not to mention – you do not “fill up your trunk with food” at a food bank.

    • Blahblah

      September 1, 2014 at 4:24 pm

      Yeah, that was the most shocking thing about that. I got like, some items, but they were never enough to make whole meals out of. They were bits and bots, they were a supplement.

      Fill a trunk. I wish I could. That would be amazing.

    • SunnyD847

      September 1, 2014 at 5:00 pm

      Yeah, I volunteered sorting food at a large County food bank, and they had such a weird assortment of foods. They also limited how much you could take of certain items like peanut butter and powdered milk. The shit people would “donate” would really piss me off. Gee, thanks for the open envelope of nasty old taco seasoning! That’s gonna really help fill someone’s belly! Make sure you write that off on your taxes!

    • Blahblah

      September 1, 2014 at 6:35 pm

      Or the expired food. Mmm, thanks, I guess since I’m poor it’s crumbs for me, huh?

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 6:39 pm

      You clearly don’t deserve a new car OR new food. Jesus, why don’t you just quit being poor already?!!!1!!?1!!? X(

    • Theresa Edwards

      September 1, 2014 at 10:09 pm

      I worked at a soup mission and my ENTIRE JOB there was cutting rotten bits off of donated food so that we could use it.

    • brebay

      September 2, 2014 at 10:42 am

      The one I went to in grad school didn’t even let you choose your own items. They brought the bags out filled, half of it my kid was allergic to or I didn’t even know how to prepare. Lard is really a thing people eat? How do I cook dry beans with only a microwave? What exactly is “Canned Meat.” I was grateful to get some things we could use, but my point is, NO ONE, at least no one who likes food, is excited about the food you bring home from the food bank. It’s humiliating, and unappetizing, and no one gets excited about finding a loophole in the system and says “Woot! I never have to buy groceries again!” This notion that people are powdered-milking this thing for free yummies is absurd. No one wants to have to go beg for powdered eggs, powdered milk and “canned meat” (I still don’t know.)

    • Joye77

      September 2, 2014 at 6:00 pm

      Agreed, sitting in the line of other needy people waiting for their turn to receive food is definitely one of the low points of my life. It’s humiliating.

    • brebay

      September 3, 2014 at 11:49 pm

      It is, but you’re doing what you have to right now, and what’s best for your family. The one constant in life is change. This is what you’re doing right now. After that, you’ll do something else. Don’t get discouraged.

    • Joye77

      September 2, 2014 at 5:56 pm

      I have to admit we have a local church that does a lot to help needy people in my area, and on certain days of the week you can go get supplies and they will load you up will all kinds of awesome stuff. Bread, frozen foods, etc. maybe since I have three kids we got more than someone else but they were pretty generous.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 3:34 pm

      That’s the stupidest thing ever. What if that was an employee, and even if the driver was benefiting, maybe they’re just focused on surviving?

    • LadyClodia the Modest Rat

      September 1, 2014 at 4:10 pm

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 4:17 pm

      I grew up poor, and actually I always wore second-hand clothes, and we NEVER had a new car. In fact, to this day I cannot buy a new car. It just ain’t in my genes I guess. I see it as a waste of money.

      Poor people of course can have new things, but any person who is claiming to be too poor to afford diapers, but is driving a brand new car, is a bullshitter.

    • Dirty Old Lady Phillips

      September 1, 2014 at 4:28 pm

      You know that people can buy or lease a new car and then lose their job, right? Right????

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 4:58 pm

      Because God forbid someone buy a new car then lose their job, right? I mean, they should be exchanging that car for a piece of shit honda just to make you feel better! How dare they!

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 5:16 pm

      Of course you should downgrade to a used car if you lost your job and need the money to afford necessities. Of course.

    • Benwhoski

      September 1, 2014 at 5:20 pm

      A used car that will potentially cost them more in maintenance, repairs, and missed days of work due to breakdowns.

      Being financially responsible doesn’t only mean “lowest up-front price”.

      It depends on what your needs are, what kind of deal you can get on your lease, etc.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 5:23 pm

      No but it certainly does not mean “brand new”. My car is 7 years old, was bought used, and is totally paid for. I would never, ever consider turning it in for a brand new car when it runs perfectly fine.

    • Benwhoski

      September 1, 2014 at 5:29 pm

      Good for you. If someone needs a new car, can’t pay for one up-front, they’ll have to lease one. If you have a good deal where leasing the new car would only be slightly more per month than leasing the used one, and would come with better warranties and lower risk of reliability problems, why wouldn’t the person do that? It makes more financial _sense_ to get the newer car.

      And I don’t know about other areas, but a lot of dealerships in my area are having so much trouble moving new cars that they’re leasing ridiculously cheap.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 5:32 pm

      Leasing a car is an absurd waste of money, and is not a financially sound decision.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:33 pm

      Cite your work. If you’re going to make massively sweeping generalizations that you have no way of qualifying I am quite interested in your thought process.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 5:50 pm

      okay, how much are all of your leases every month?

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:51 pm

      Why is that your business?

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 5:52 pm

      Huh? i was told to show my work. I was going to use your current lease payment as part of that.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:54 pm

      But I’m certainly not going to discuss my finances with you. Nor should anyone else unless you’re a financial planner. It’s not. Your. Business. What I or anyone else does with our money is truly not your concern. Unless you’re my husband, my finances have absolutely nothing to do with you.

      You see what I did there? Maybe let’s allow that to be an important lesson.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 5:56 pm

      You told me to show my work. I thought it would be easier with a real-life example. Okay, I will tell you that I paid about $10,000 cash for my car in 2009.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:58 pm

      But what you don’t get is that I don’t care how much money you spent, because it’s none of my business.

      If people abuse the system, that’s terrible, but enough people are actually in need to counterbalance that.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:03 pm

      And that is fantastic for you! But other people don’t necessarily have that kind of cash sitting around, nor would that be easy to save up when they need a car, like, yesterday. Leasing and car payments exist because cars can be a major expense. Everyone must weigh out the pros and cons of used vs. new and make the best decision for their wallet and lifestyle.

      The bottom line is…we don’t truly know anyone else’s financial status and therefore it’s not our place to judge.

    • Lindsey

      September 1, 2014 at 6:04 pm

      And buying a new, reliable car may be the difference between keeping your job, house, food, etc. and living in a shelter with no job.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:05 pm

      a one or two year old car is just as good and you let the idiot who bought it new take that $3,000 hit instead of you. I would never, ever buy a brand new car. It is a ridiculous waste of money with no real benefit over a used car that is just a couple years old.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:06 pm

      But it smells so GOOOOOOOOOD.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:08 pm

      Yes well immaturity and wanting shiny things is the real driving force behind buying a brand new car, not making a financially sound investment. At least you’re honest about it, unlike everyone else here, who thinks that a poor person really needs a brand new car.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:16 pm

      I adore you.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:14 pm

      Oh honey. No. That’s not the appropriate response. Not. At. All. You’re talking to the wrong fucking person about new versus old. You took an innocently funny comment and insulted my integrity.

      My father started working on cars when he was six years old. His talent for body work kept his family with food on the table and he parlayed his skills into teaching auto body for thirty years to high school students. Every car that my family (me, my mother, my father, my two brothers, and both their wives) owned for the vast majority of my life was a wrecked car that my father had bought off the junkyard and carefully pieced back together.

      I know a thing or two about the difference between old and new cars, as well as the people who purchase and drive them. The difference between me and you though, is that I have the class not to give a flying fuck.

    • EX

      September 2, 2014 at 4:24 pm

      Err. What now? I know I’m late to this party but up until my current car I had only driven hand-me downs and one used car I purchased myself (from a used car dealer who turned out to be a crook by the way and I spent the better part of a year working with a DMV investigator to get $800 he stole from me back, so, yeah. That was fun). Then my lovely used car was totaled before I had paid it off. And though I had gap insurance I still had a deductible (the jerk who hit us didn’t have insurance so that came out of our pocket). So I figured no more used car lots for me, I’m going to a dealer and I’ll buy pre-owned. Guess what? They gave me a better deal on a new one. But yes, buying a new car is aaalll about vanity…

    • Lex

      September 1, 2014 at 6:11 pm

      I did just buy a brand new car because it was cheaper to buy than a used one. Mind = blown. They even give you a lower APR on a new one.

    • Lindsey

      September 1, 2014 at 6:12 pm

      I bought a new car because it was the first model that had above 30 mpg. Which is money too, you know!

    • Lex

      September 1, 2014 at 6:13 pm

      Yes it is. And buying a brand new car with 7 miles on it vs a year old car with 130,000 is a big deal. Why would you pay essentially the same amount with a higher interest rate for all that mileage? No thanks.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:15 pm

      oh my god! What did the previous owner take it to Patagonia and back in that year?

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 6:16 pm

      ten times?

    • KatDuck

      September 2, 2014 at 12:13 am

      We did that! Well, almost new. But with the amount DH drives for work it was CHEAPER to buy a newer, eco-friendly car than an older beater. Mind blown.

    • Lindsey

      September 1, 2014 at 6:36 pm

      Only some cars depreciate that fast.

    • KatDuck

      September 2, 2014 at 12:12 am

      …… it would be really nice to have $10k cash… really, really, really nice. So much of life is cheaper if you just have the money up front.

    • EX

      September 2, 2014 at 4:25 pm

      Right? Don’t poor people know that they should just buy a used car for 10K cash?

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 7:04 pm

      What if she IS your husband? What if he found out your screen name and is just fucking with all of us?

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 7:07 pm

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 7:07 pm

      Mind…blown.

      He knows I comment, but he also knows how deeply this would piss me off, so I’m guessing his self- preservation instinct would have kicked in somewhere around the eighth inane comment.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 5:56 pm

      But how does our lease payments relate to the discussion? Honestly.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 5:56 pm

      I guess this is a bit of tangent. I’ll just drop it.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:57 pm

      Smart.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 5:59 pm

      That’s the most intelligent comment you’ve made all thread. Brava!

    • Dirty Old Lady Phillips

      September 1, 2014 at 5:53 pm

      $179 a month. I drive a 2013 Nissan Sentra. I put $2000 down on it.

      Eta, that was meant for your name stealer, not you, my dear. And it’s not her business, but she obviously doesn’t understand how a lease payment is usually a lot cheaper than a finance payment.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 7:40 pm

      At this point, I’m beginning to wonder if I have an evil doppelgänger out there somewhere.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 11:41 pm

      *thinks of Star Trek*

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 5:51 pm

      You can lease a Maserati for around $800 a month.

    • Dirty Old Lady Phillips

      September 1, 2014 at 5:56 pm

      You’re a saucy bitch and I love it. You’re so saucy, you should change your name to Jessica Wakefield!

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:01 pm

      But it’s true! I’ve seen it with my own eyes! I thought about trading in my Acadia when the wee one gets out of a carseat…

      😉

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 5:52 pm

      Why do you need to know this?

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 5:53 pm

      To “show my work”.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 5:55 pm

      No thanks.

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 5:59 pm

      Okay, I *don’t* lease my car. It was a present I got for graduating college a year early, which I’m sure probably invalidates this argument already, BUT…it’s now seven years old. And when one part goes, it takes a lot of the surrounding parts with it. I would estimate that in the past six months alone, I have averaged $150/month in repair fees after a cascade effect of age-related issues struck. Thank goodness I didn’t have lease payments on top of that (which I might have if I’d had to buy it six months ago as-is), but because I don’t know of any dealerships that do extended good-coverage warranties on old cars, I could still be paying lease payments PLUS the, let’s face it, pretty much run-of-the-mill costs that come with having a car that’s been on the road for a while.

    • leahdawn

      September 2, 2014 at 1:44 pm

      I second your hallelujah on not having lease payments. I bought a new-ish car before grad school, but by the time I finished we were living almost strictly on a cheap diet of plain rice and had sold anything of value in our apartment. But I managed to hang onto the car, only because it was totally paid off. If I had payments on it I would have lost it for sure, along with the means for DH to get to his job (no bus routes there, I bussed to school).

    • ChillMama

      September 1, 2014 at 5:35 pm

      Well, it may seem like a “waste of money” to you, but if it is the only way to reach your work, and you cannot afford the downpayment/financing of actually buying a car (and yes, I include a used one) then it may be your best option. When you live month-to-month, you really have to look at the immediate cost of what is realistic to get your needs met, and not whether it is “financially sound” down the road.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 5:38 pm

      I find it very hard to believe that financing a $6,000 car is more costly than leasing.

    • ChillMama

      September 1, 2014 at 5:39 pm

      Well, you can continue to find that very hard to believe if you like. It doesn’t make it false.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 7:17 pm

      I don’t believe that One Direction exists. Are they gone now?

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 6:14 pm

      Because when that $6000 car needs a $2000 repair it comes out of your pocket, while many leased cars are still under warranty.
      That $6000 car is probably also costing twice in gas. Depending on your commute that adds up.

    • Kelly

      September 2, 2014 at 10:27 am

      Why don’t you go online right now and try to find a decent vehicle for $6k? I just bought two used cars, because my husband’s car and my car both died at the same time, so I know of what I speak.

      It sucked, we looked for a deal. But to spend any amount of money on a car with 150k + miles on it, that was older, used more gas, and with few safety features to protect our young child, well, that didn’t seem like the most sound financial decision.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 2, 2014 at 10:13 pm

      I want to know where these awesome $6000 used cars are. I’m going to buy a used car next year and I’ve yet to see a $6000 car with less than 80,000 miles on it unless Car Fax tells me to stay away from it.
      We’re actually thinking of buying a $1500 car with 175,000 miles on it and just putting in a new engine and fixing the transmission (which is an option only because hubby would be doing the work himself, otherwise it would go WAY over budget with the shop costs).

    • Benwhoski

      September 1, 2014 at 6:00 pm

      But one doesn’t always have an option. I very literally live pay to pay. There is very little left over at the end of a month, if anything. As such, I do not have any significant savings.

      When my 13-year-old Dodge Neon finally dies (and it will), I almost definitely will not have a lump sum to buy a car up-front. My options will likely be to lease or to not have transportation.

    • Dirty Old Lady Phillips

      September 1, 2014 at 6:08 pm

      This is the only reason I have a leased car now. Well, and the fact that my beloved 2002 Saturn SC 3-door coupe wasn’t exactly ideal for my son’s car seat.

    • Benwhoski

      September 1, 2014 at 6:14 pm

      I should also note that I believe I may be mixing up my terms between “financing” and “leasing” (again, it’s been 13 years since I’ve bought a car, and that was a rare fluke of being able to purchase an almost-new vehicle for only slightly more than the tax on the blue book value), but my point still stands. What is realistic for someone who needs a car immediately will change based on circumstances, local economy, the variables of their own financial history, what the dealerships are offering, etc.

    • C.J.

      September 2, 2014 at 1:58 am

      Sometimes it is the only option. Leases are easier to get than loans. Leases for brand new cars are often cheaper than leases for used cars. I would rather see someone work and pay for a new car get a little help than for them to lose their job because the can’t get there and have to need a lot more help.

    • Dirty Old Lady Phillips

      September 1, 2014 at 5:48 pm

      Oh my god. Are you naturally obtuse, or is it deliberate? Say I had a good job and a family and got a good lease deal on a new car (I don’t care what you think of leases. Suspend your opinion on leases for a minute and just try to follow my logic, if it’s at all possible.) So my lease is $179 a month. Then I lose my job. I can cobble together enough to cover my bills, including my lease, but money is tight, savings are dwindling, and I’m at the point where I need help feeding and diapering my child until I find another job. In what world does it make sense for me to turn in my leased car early and pay a penalty, and come out of pocket more money for a crappy old used car??? How?

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 5:55 pm

      I love your plan. More old, out of warranty cars on the road, more work for him and the other mechanics, so more money for us.
      Of course, sometimes it is easier to get the $190 a month together for a car payment that will replace your radiator if it breaks than the $1000 the shop is going to want to do the work, plus the $99 a month used car payment.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 7:29 pm

      I do not have a car payment. My car has needed some repairs, but nothing major, and in a couple of years I will switch over to just liability, and so that will be nice. New cars can need major repairs too. Anyway, I like not having a car payment and owning my car outright.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 7:45 pm

      Again many new cars have a warranty that will pay for those repairs.

    • Kelly

      September 2, 2014 at 10:24 am

      BUT YOU STARTED WITH NO DEBT. If you have f’ing $10,000 to drop on a car, than you can not and should not compare your experience to that of a person who literally is driving to a food bank for dinner. It doesn’t even make sense.

      Also, do you really fucking think that people are driving to the food bank because they are getting such high quality food for no cost? Like it’s fucking Whole Foods or Wegman’s and they can pick out whatever they want and go home to make a gourmet meal?

    • Jen TheTit Whipper

      September 1, 2014 at 7:37 pm

      This is why we bought brand new. It was easier for us to budget $x amount a month than potentially have to come up with an unknown amount in repairs.

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 5:29 pm

      Soooo, you should trade your new, probably-still-factory-warrantied (and therefore, free-to-maintain) car that you probably already blew a decent chunk of money on (because damn if most places don’t demand a down payment, at least) for a car that you’d still have to pay a decent chunk of upfront money on and probably much more money down the road (because I can tell you from personal experience that my car has definitely gotten more challenging to maintain as it has aged). Right. Makes perfect sense.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 5:29 pm

      Yeah, you’re just deliberately ignoring everything everyone says at this point, aren’t you?

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 6:38 pm

      And take a hit on the only asset you have, a vehicle you could use as equity to pay your mortgage during the months it take you to find a new job. You really need to take Econ.101.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 6:42 pm

      Thank baby Jesus for high school Econ. May He never get diaper rash.

    • ToninaMDC

      September 1, 2014 at 6:49 pm

      If a person bought a brand new car and financed it with an auto loan (as people often do), then shortly thereafter lost her job in a sudden round of layoffs, she would lose a sizable amount of the car’s original value in selling it while still owing the agreed-upon original payoff price for the loan. She would be taking a ~15-20% loss on the vehicle’s original value, while having to pay off the total loan, with no job, in order to downgrade to a less reliable used vehicle. That used vehicle would either have to be financed as well (with all the related costs and no employment or income to cite when applying for a loan, which would inevitably result in a higher interest rate if the woman could get a loan at all) or paid for in a sizable lump sum. While downgrading to a used car might seem morally satisfying to you, to a person in that situation it would likely prove a costly false economy.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 7:06 pm

      Daaaaaamn…you almost sound like (gasp!) someone who knows what they’re talking about! 🙂 You can stick around.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 7:07 pm

      ONE OF US ONE OF US

    • ToninaMDC

      September 1, 2014 at 7:12 pm

      But I’m poor! So I have no business lazing around on the internet! Instead, I should drive home in a 15-year-old Hyundai to a studio apartment I share with two roommates, eat some ramen cooked on a hot plate for dinner, and thank my lucky stars I live in The Greatest By-Damn Country in the World!

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 7:13 pm

      Can we keep you?

    • ToninaMDC

      September 1, 2014 at 7:17 pm

      Apparently only if I get a special dispensation for Existing While Poor. But now I feel all welcome and blushy. Thanks! 🙂

      And I am in on the dark side cookie party! Nice side effect of poverty – I’ve learned to bake quite well.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 7:19 pm

      Welcome fellow poor person!

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 7:13 pm

      You can come sit by us.

    • shel

      September 1, 2014 at 11:23 pm

      How come I never get invited anywhere? Is it because I’m too lazy to make a real account??? I know I don’t comment all the time… but I didn’t think I was that offensive! 🙁

      Is it because I was turned into a newt that one time?

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 11:40 pm

      You’re invited, you’re just way late today.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 7:15 pm

      Join us on the dark side; @whiteroses:disqus is making cookies.

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 7:16 pm

      I especially like her because she isn’t poaching my name!

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 7:17 pm

      And hell, even if she was…at least she’s intelligent and not offensive!

    • ToninaMDC

      September 1, 2014 at 7:19 pm

      I’m stealing this for my eventual epitaph…. “She Was Intelligent and Not Offensive.” 🙂

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 7:19 pm

      Trust me, that’s the highest compliment we can give to a newbie.

    • ToninaMDC

      September 1, 2014 at 7:23 pm

      I am honored. 🙂 *Sits down quietly in the back row*

    • Joye77

      September 2, 2014 at 6:08 pm

      Welcome to “murica!

    • shel

      September 1, 2014 at 11:19 pm

      How does this person know it was brand new anyway?? I mean, it might be shiny and pretty, but you can get 1-2 year old used cars that look pretty much the same if they haven’t changed much cosmetically between model years. Buying a relatively new car can be a sound investment, especially depending on the brand/make and holds less risk of an unexpected repair bill.
      Thank you for your actual logic about owning a newer vehicle and why it’s not always the best idea to just up and sell it to ‘save money’. Was it here on mmish that linked that “I drove a Mercedes to the welfare office” article? It laid out some very sound reasoning why that RELIABLE car was worth keeping when jobs were suddenly lost.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 11:39 pm

      B-But you can’t be poor if you don’t look poor!

    • pixie Ninja Tits

      September 1, 2014 at 6:39 pm

      Hey now, don’t insult Hondas. The one I drive is 16 years old and still going strong! 😉

      (Though that could be due to the fact that my parents take extremely good care of their vehicles)

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 6:40 pm

      Oh, I love Hondas. It was just the first model that came to mind 🙂

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 6:40 pm

      *Make?

    • pixie Ninja Tits

      September 1, 2014 at 6:41 pm

      lol, don’t worry, I was just pulling your leg. 🙂

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:40 pm

      Hondas are notoriously well-built and long-lasting cars. 🙂

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 6:41 pm

      It’s Toyotas you gotta watch out for.

    • Rachel Sea

      September 3, 2014 at 12:55 pm

      Toyotas last forever too. I drive an ’89 Camry.

    • pixie Ninja Tits

      September 1, 2014 at 6:42 pm

      They are definitely! I’m a huge supporter of Hondas because of how well my parents’ have lasted.

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 6:44 pm

      Shh…don’t tell Rose White, but when I was in my early twenties I bought myself a BRAND NEW Acura (a sister company to Honda). It was purdy and really well made. Eventually we had to trade it in for a more ‘mom’ car to fit a carseat, but when I’m done with my Acadia, I’m totally going back to Acura.

    • pixie Ninja Tits

      September 1, 2014 at 7:02 pm

      I don’t blame you at all! Acuras are lovely cars, too.
      I’m just sad that Honda apparently doesn’t make Civics in hatchbacks anymore; I learned to drive in my dad’s ’95 Civic hatchback (that we no longer have because it died in 2008 🙁 ) and it was SO MUCH FUN to drive. Step on the gas and it went like a bat out of hell (super light because there wasn’t even A/C in it and super teeny-tiny and low to the ground….I wish they still made Civics like that. The Fits just aren’t the same)

    • Alanna Jorgensen

      September 1, 2014 at 7:49 pm

      I love my 20 year old Honda. It’s been more trustworthy than the 2004 Cavalier I had whose engine took a dump on me.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 5:14 pm

      I said it elsewhere, I’ll repeat it now. Shortly after my first was born my car broke down permanently (I’m married to a mechanic, if he can’t fix it it’s gone). My grandmother had just bought a new car and had a paralyzing accident. She wanted to keep the car because she was convinced she’d walk again, but she didn’t need it. I was driving a brand new Volvo for months while on WIC and too poor to afford many things.
      My SIL drove a brand new car given to her by her boyfriend who was overseas. She was even poorer.
      A poor cousin used her tax return to pay for 80% of a new car, leaving her with a smaller car payment than the gas difference from the 35 mpg new car and her 8 mpg 1976 truck.
      A new car doesn’t mean an expense in every case.

    • Joye77

      September 2, 2014 at 6:04 pm

      When I lost my job of ten years I did pick up donated food while driving my late model leased car. It does happen. Some of us weren’t ALWAYS poor.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 2, 2014 at 9:58 pm

      I don’t think Rose realizes that you can’t just go back to the dealership and give them your keys saying “I changed my mind, you got the car, I’m not paying anymore, we cool, right?” One you sign a lease or take out a loan you’re bound by it. With extremely few exceptions (either Ford or Chevy did a “lose your job in the first three months and we’ll take it back *as long as you were laid off and not fired and as long as you don’t have a co-signer” deal for a little while) you’re still going to have that payment. Don’t make it and you have a repossession on your record which hurts your credit and can cost you job opportunities, not to mention makes it damn near impossible to get another car loan with an apr under “usary percentage” if you can get one at all for years.

    • Benwhoski

      September 1, 2014 at 5:14 pm

      1.) See the point many others have made about the cost-effectiveness of leasing a new car rather than buying a used one due to low maintenence costs.

      2.) “Driving” a brand new car is not the same as owning one. I drove my Uncle’s new Lexus to my minimum-wage, part-time retail job for a few weeks. Am I rich now?

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 6:37 pm

      Ah, I get it. You want all poor people to be as miserable as you were and are incensed at the fact that someone might have figured out a better way to do “poor.”

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 7:25 pm

      My mother had a much better way to be poor and saved up some money so I got to go to college. I am doing much better than the generation before me. But I guess what I really should have had was a bunch of brand new shit as a kid. That makes sense.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 7:39 pm

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 7:43 pm

      Yeah I think it is a cool story too, sis.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 7:44 pm

      Do I have to dig out the Foghorn Leghorn macro again? ‘Twas a joke. Your anecdote does not matter.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 7:46 pm

      I got it. Don’t worry. Hence, the “sis” part. I have been familiar with these meme for many years.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 7:47 pm

      Okay.

    • Rose White

      September 1, 2014 at 7:43 pm

      BTW, wearing used clothes and driving a used car does not equal misery. I was very happy as a kid.

    • Blueathena623

      September 1, 2014 at 9:43 pm

      BTW, how are you judging a new car? This year? Last 3 years? Do you know how quickly the blue book value tanks even after a short amount of time?

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 3:13 pm

      1. You don’t know who those people were collecting the food nor do you know their bank account or how the food was going to be used.

      2. Many new cars can actually be cheaper than driving an older car because of maintenance fees.

      3. You can actually lease a brand new car for significantly cheaper than purchasing.

      Basically. Don’t judge a book by its cover.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 3:19 pm

      Where do you live? I want to look up poverty statistics.
      I live in an area with one of the highest cost of living in our state, and we still have a fair number of people who live below the poverty line.
      I’ve been poor as hell and driven a new car to places. It was my grandmother’s car. She didn’t need it add much as I did, as I had a baby and no car.

    • ChillMama

      September 1, 2014 at 4:20 pm

      How DARE you?! I judge you from afar, since I obviously know all the details of your financial situation.

    • KatDuck

      September 1, 2014 at 10:34 pm

      The gift certificates! I have a love-hate with those as they were often the go-to gift for people who wanted to help us a bit. On the one hand – free food! At a nice place! Amazing! On the other, when our weekly food bill was limited to $15 for two of us, it was almost painful to order a $30 meal, even if half of it did go home with me. I would have rather had the cash… but then it would have gone to bills, not good food… and eating out is so nice…. sigh.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 1, 2014 at 11:42 pm

      One of our parents owned a restaurant known for generous portions, and gave all the teachers at our center a $20 comp every week. I could stretch it to three meals for two people with a couple cheap additions. Add it to the free breakfast and lunch at work and it really saved money. That wasn’t every week, but we saved the gift certificates and used the food comp on weeks where money was really tight.
      Gift certificates are kind of the easy way out, but they’re still my go-to gift. I really try to get it for a place that teachers can use it to help replenish classroom supplies or to a grocery store if I know things are rough for the teacher.

    • KatDuck

      September 1, 2014 at 11:57 pm

      That’s a smart way to do it. And I hope I didn’t come across as knocking gift-cards unilaterally – we just had some back runs with people deciding we needed a gift certificate to higher-end places that were neither convenient nor particular favorites. Or, more fun, giving us just enough to not-quite cover two meals so we had to do some fancy math since we couldn’t afford to chip in our own. Not the end of the world, but Target or Safeway would have been a better use of the money. Still, we did appreciate the thought and tried to use those to their fullest!

      And how sweet for that parent to use their work to help teachers! That makes all the sense in the world. And somehow that fells totally different.

      I should point out, some of the frustration comes because my parents were the chief givers of the gift certificates and on the one hand, thank you parents … on the other, I’m gluten intolerant and they kept giving us GCs to Olive Garden and Macaroni Grill. So there might be some other issues feeding that dislike that are better worked out with a therapist.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 2, 2014 at 9:38 am

      Oh the useless gift cards. I love Starbucks, but why is that the go to card?

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 3:20 pm

      Hoo boy. Several other people have already addressed several other issues below, so here are my particular sticking points:

      1. I have a smartphone. I guess I don’t “need” a smartphone, but it sure makes doing quick re-edits to things I’ve already proofed a hell of a lot easier. Not to mention I can check Craigslist for new proofreading gigs or check up on pitch statuses while I’m otherwise waiting in line or grabbing a quick cup of coffee, and you better believe such promptness in replying to emails looks hella good to prospective clients. Who’s to say your low-income friends aren’t using the “junk” they buy for similar purposes?

      2. After realizing how much I spend going out to eat, I decided it was time to confront my hatred of cooking head-on, so I started trying to recreate favorite restaurant entrees at home. Not only did it take inordinately longer once the shopping, prep time, and cleaning were factored in, it actually turned out to be more expensive than just ordering the damn meal, since a lot of the ingredients were one-off items that couldn’t be reused. So maybe going out to eat is more convenient, is saving money, or both.

    • FishQueen

      September 1, 2014 at 4:00 pm

      ^This on the smartphone thing. My iPhone cost me $0.99 plus tax. Possibly like $15 more than the base model dumb phone, but worth the returns in being able to reply to emails much more quickly than if I could only check periodically.

      My family went through some bumpy times financially speaking. We also ate out probably a few times a month because my mom and dad were exhausted from working their asses off to keep us afloat, and cooking felt like too much some days. You feel like you want control of SOMETHING sometimes. When the rest of the week your options are limited to things I can make quickly for very little money, splurging here and there is not the worst thing in the world. Obviously we weren’t going to Michelin-rated restaurants, but I don’t think this generalizing hack is implying that. How DARE the poors go to Denny’s or (gasp) an Olive Garden? Don’t they know that bologna and ramen is all they’ve earned?

      It is okay to have some nice things from time to time. Yes, for poor people, too.

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 4:09 pm

      Even if you are going to Michelin-starred restaurants every so often, whose business is it? Would you not be entitled to save up enough money to spend, say, an anniversary or other important occasion there? I mean, good grief, I sometimes suspect that the best form of charity around would be going around and handing out giant water bottles labeled “STFU” to everyone on the street.

    • FishQueen

      September 1, 2014 at 4:42 pm

      I’m someone who spent some time in a financial hole, and I approve this message.

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 4:46 pm

      I’m hoping that the past tense means you are no longer in that hole, and I hope that anyone who is can rise above the judgmental bitchiness of assholes on the internet!

    • FishQueen

      September 1, 2014 at 9:26 pm

      Getting there! We just finally were able to start actually saving money. It’s been tough- I can only work part time thanks to an illness that people without degrees in clinical psychology keep telling me I’m making up or too lazy to fix, so I have a good deal of practice with ignoring internet haters. 🙂

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 9:29 pm

      Know-nothing Know-it-alls suck.

    • FishQueen

      September 2, 2014 at 12:23 am

      And there are so many.

    • jane

      September 1, 2014 at 5:13 pm

      When my husband lost his job and then got cancer (after we had two non-returnable and expensive children) we cut back on so much spending. We talked about eliminating (basic) cable but I said “I just can’t been too poor to watch TV.” Now, if I had to choose between cable TV or the food bank I would lose cable in a heartbeat, but there are plenty of other things that wouldn’t make any financial sense to give up (our newly leased vehicle, my kids new shoes) and things that I would be really hard pressed to give up (do I sell my engagement ring to pay for groceries when my husband has cancer?). REAL PEOPLE have to make HARD financial choices when the shit hits the fan.

    • FishQueen

      September 1, 2014 at 9:36 pm

      I am so sorry your family had to go through that. I hope things are all right, or approaching the vicinity, at least.

      What people like the original commenter above don’t understand is how they would react in a situation like this. I almost never have seen comments from people like “when I needed food stamps, you bet your ass I sold everything not bolted to the ground and started wearing only rags and apologizing to every person with a job”, and when I have, they were usually along the lines of “it was my very last resort, and I was so ashamed”. People don’t know what it’s like to put a premium on everything in their lives and STILL not have it be enough, and they don’t know what it’s like to go, “ah, the hell with it, this is my one nice thing and I am going to hold onto it so I don’t lose my mind, but still feel really guilty about it.” I honestly hope they never have to because it sucks, but I do wish that empathy were a more widely grasped thing.

      *edited to fix the fact that autocorrect seems to think “so” and “do” are interchangeable.

    • Blueathena623

      September 1, 2014 at 9:41 pm

      I think the big point that if you need SNAP, selling your TV or whatever else people want you to sell, will delay your need for SNAP for 1 to 2 weeks. It’s not going to be the difference between getting benefits or not getting them. And then when you are back on your feet you have to buy a whole new tv.
      I’m all for scaling down when possible and taking a long, hard look at the budget, but don’t hock everything you have.

    • FishQueen

      September 2, 2014 at 12:20 am

      Plus, for my family, at least, that was time, energy, and sometimes money sunk into trying to sell something that could have been used in other ways. It’s just not always a reasonable thing to expect from people who are already feeling pretty stressed.

    • KatDuck

      September 1, 2014 at 10:30 pm

      My brother gave us so much crap one year when we rented a storage site for our furniture. We had to move to another state for 9 months for DH’s training and the temp place was furnished so storage was the best option.

      Yes, we were living on a shoestring at that point (ever broken down in tears in the supermarket because you couldn’t afford anything but dried beans and rice? Literally skipped meals to make ends meet? Gladly accepted a friend’s half-used jar of thyme because you hadn’t been able to afford seasonings for months? ‘Cause that’s where we were) but here’s the thing: yes, renting storage was a pain in the pocketbook but let’s face facts:
      (1) our stuff wasn’t worth selling, for the most part. Our couch cost us $5 and I don’t think we could have gotten much more. And then there’s the time it takes to sell – it’s rough and we didn’t have that. So, at best, we’d net a couple hundred dollars for several day’s work. Yay?
      (2) When we returned we still needed basic furnishings. Bed. Dining table. Pots. Bowls. All that stuff. That’s a HUGE expenditure and a luxury. You’ve got to be pretty rich to start from scratch, even basic scratch.

      Storage, to him, seemed like a luxury and like we were some sort of materialistic hogs but it was just life. Sometimes the easy answer (dump it all!) is a really, really unwise one.

    • FishQueen

      September 2, 2014 at 12:22 am

      I really wish that all the energy people spend giving other people crap about their financial choices could be harnessed somehow. We’d never run out.

    • Benwhoski

      September 1, 2014 at 4:52 pm

      Another when it comes to people complaining about poor people owning smartphones is that having one is much more cost-effective that having the combination of land-line, computer, and internet connection. Having internet access is becoming more and more of a necessity than a luxury, and many communities do not have funded and equipped libraries to provide it. A large percentage of businesses are pushing for a switch to online applications and resumes rather than paper ones for those who are job-hunting.

      And regarding them going out to eat, not only is it true that sometimes making the meal yourself is more expensive, sometimes that person does not have the appliances to do so. I know people who live in efficiency apartments that did not come with a refrigerator. They’ve got a sink and a microwave. People do need to eat things other than instant ramen.

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 5:01 pm

      That internet access bit is a HUGE deal, and I know my internet provider likes to randomly jack up prices for the same shitty wi-fi I’ve always had. Yeah, sure, there are also coffee shops (which is where I do a lot of my work), but most places give you the stinkeye at best if you just whip out your laptop and start typing without buying a pricy drink first, not to mention the cost of owning the computer to begin with (mine was a birthday present from four years ago that I try to take reeeally good care of because getting a new one that is its equivalent would take a good chunk out of the ol’ bank account, and I have imminent moving expenses). So yeah, smartphones can definitely be a smart investment.

      And the cooking supplies…good grief, yes. I’ve seen places that are so small, you couldn’t fit a hot plate in there. Don’t get me wrong, I love ramen as an occasionaly very-budget-friendly indulgence, but I don’t see how ANYBODY could be reasonably expected to live on it all the time. And yes, there are eateries near my apartment that serve cheaper and fresher salads than I could get by rushing around the vegetable section of the grocery store, so I can definitely see how eating out can be a healthier option as well!

    • Katherine Handcock

      September 1, 2014 at 5:05 pm

      The healthy eating thing is HUGE! It costs way more for me to serve my kids a relatively inexpensive but healthy meal like we had tonight (chicken, rice, and beans) than it would if I gave them a can of Chef Boyardee or a box of mac’n’cheese. And if you’re a single person, especially if you don’t have much fridge space, buying produce gets challenging fast.

    • Benwhoski

      September 1, 2014 at 5:10 pm

      Poor people aren’t allowed to be healthy. Y’know, the whole “decrease the surplus population” Scrooge bit and whatnot.

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 5:24 pm

      I’m sure that’s why for me, it either hardly matters or is somewhat advantageous for me to go out to eat. I’ve had family members boast proudly of their huge savings at Sam’s Club and Costco, but a) the savings are due to buying in bulk. I couldn’t use that much food before it expired. And b) I live in the city center. Sam’s Clubs and Costcos tend to be in the far reaches of the ‘burbs, which are not always accessible if you don’t have a car, which (sorry amo) a lot of low-income people DON’T. So yeah, eatingly healthily AND inexpensively is logistically challenging even if you DO have resources at your disposal, and I say that as someone in the extraordinarily privileged position of never having had to worry where my next meal was coming from.

    • Benwhoski

      September 1, 2014 at 5:18 pm

      ” but most places give you the stinkeye at best if you just whip out your laptop and start typing without buying a pricy drink first”

      See! You can be an irresponsible, entitled poor person by having a smart phone, or be one by drinking Starbucks coffee! THE CHOICES ARE ENDLESS!

    • KatDuck

      September 2, 2014 at 12:04 am

      Randomly jacking up – oh yes. We the cheapest option possible and dealt with dial-up speeds for two years (not fun with modern websites and browsers) until we realized they’d inched up the prices so much it was /cheaper/ to get faster. I have no idea how that math works since it was the same company but there it is. And there’s no such thing as cheap. There’s cheaper, but hardly very affordable when you’re living right on the edge of the red.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 8:27 pm

      Pretty tough to find a job or take classes without an internet connection.

    • KatDuck

      September 1, 2014 at 10:18 pm

      We were scraping by for a while and I had a smartphone. In my case it was the best possible option – I got it reconditioned for cheap and the data plan was loads cheaper than internet service. We went without cable, internet, and landline service so that one fee was all I paid and, as it was still bundled with my parents, it was a really good deal. Through that I applied to jobs, completed classes, and looked professional replying to emails immediately. Sure beat sulking outside of starbucks after hours with my laptop trying to steal their signal. Not that I ever did that…

    • Blueathena623

      September 1, 2014 at 3:51 pm

      So either you are lying or you have a lot of shitty friends, which really doesn’t say anything good about you. And you’re creepy as well if you just sit outside the food bank for large amounts of time looking at people’s cars and then watching them bring the food out. Seriously, does anyone have a restraining order against you?

    • Quinn

      September 1, 2014 at 3:52 pm

      You’re a terrible person! Oh wait! That’s incredibly unfair of me to say because I DON’T KNOW YOU.

      See what I did there?

    • ToninaMDC

      September 1, 2014 at 3:55 pm

      Did it EVER occur to you that some of the people coming to the food bank don’t own a car and so must rent one so they can manage to bring home the good they’re given?

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 5:37 pm

      Better check that microphone for impact damage.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 4:34 pm

      And you know for a fact that it wasn’t a volunteer getting food for the battered women’s shelter, or a representative of any number of volunteer organizations who will run errands for people without transportation? The food bank where I live will drive people home with their food or bring it to them if they have no car. A lot of assumptions. What if the car is paid off and the person recently lost their job or had a spouse die? Makes more sense to sell a fully paid, reliable car to buy a used piece of crap that keeps breaking down? Makes it kind of hard to look for work, huh? Ever lived anyplace that didn’t have public transportation?

    • Blueathena623

      September 1, 2014 at 4:51 pm

      Common sense — you’re doing it right

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 4:51 pm

      Yeah, interestingly enough, I only seem to have lived in places where the public transportation hubs were also (in)conveniently located near some of the toniest sections of town.

    • SunnyD847

      September 1, 2014 at 5:07 pm

      A lot of food programs like soup kitchens, churches, etc. get food from food banks. That person you sneered at could have been filling the trunk to serve food to the homeless. Try judging less and learning more.

    • Mehra Sarethi

      September 1, 2014 at 7:14 pm

      Wow. You’re one of those judgmental assholes who likes to decide how people with low income spend their money. And to quit donating to a great organization for that reason is ridiculous and means you probably didn’t care too much about donating there in the first place.

    • elaine

      September 1, 2014 at 7:31 pm

      Poverty destroys people’s ability to spend money wisely. This is backed up by a lot of studies, but I am speaking from personal experience. When you don’t have steady income, or you have such a small income, and you are so poor that you can’t pay all the bills that are due that month, or next month, when you know that there will be a shortfall somewhere in spite of all that you do, sometimes you just take the money that is supposed to be used to pay half the gas bill and go out to eat because you just can’t anymore. It is not because you don’t understand that there are consequences or that you are making bad choices, it is because you feel hopeless and there are no choices that will improve your life so you might as well just go out to eat and forget everything for a little while. Same reasons go for spending money on booze or smokes.
      TL; DR Basically, the worse off you are, the more likely you are to make bad choices about money, and spend money on things that you can’t afford, but that will help you forget your horrible life.

    • Sri

      September 2, 2014 at 1:31 am

      Oh, I’m sorry. I should have waved when you saw me at the food bank. You see, my parents have always been barely scraping by. Then I went to college and moved away from my parents. My husband has a pretty good job, and we were comfortable financially, so I got a new car when my old car shit the bed. Then, well, life got interesting. My father suddenly dropped dead with no warning, and my mother’s cancer came back and spread to her brain. In the same week. Since we couldn’t move her out to us in her condition, I had to quit my job and move out to her for the few months she had left. I tried to use my own money as much as possible, but, you see, without a job, our finances were no longer anywhere near comfortable. Since I was only in town for a few months, no one wanted to hire me. I finally caved and drove my new car to the food bank to pick up food for my dying mother. Hit me up next time I’m in town, and I’ll pay you back for that box of pasta and tin of old German potato salad.

      Just kidding. I’m totally not going to pay you back. You’re an asshole.

    • Courtney Lynn

      September 2, 2014 at 2:29 pm

      Because poor people can never entertain themselves, right? You don’t know what happened after they bought the vehicle, if they were borrowing it or if it was a company car (working poor?). In my near 35 years of life I have witnessed ONE who I knew for sure was “abusing the system”. One.

  7. tk88

    September 1, 2014 at 2:57 pm

    This really is awful and it’s shameful that WIC doesn’t pay for it. Even if there were some other things to help with cloth diapers–like perhaps one washer/dryer in laundromats set aside for them, it’s just a small part of the problem. Not only that but it gets worse when children who are fussy because of dirty diapers or infections are more likely to be abused by stressed parents. It’s something that I hope the government or even more charities start paying attention to.

  8. Sarah

    September 1, 2014 at 3:29 pm

    Just throwing this out there in case anyone wants to know a cheap way to buy cloth diapers. Alva diapers are super cheap, about five bucks, and you can use prefolds in them which are like a dollar a piece. That would make a six dollar diaper. You could get by on 20 diapers. My alvas are in just as good condition as my expensive diapers despite what the cloth diaper Nazis say online. I also don’t think they take as much time as a lot of “wash routines” would have you believe. I switched to a store brand detergent and a simple wash routine and they are cleaner and easier than ever.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 3:30 pm

      Cloth diaper snobbery is a thing?

    • Elizabeth Wakefield

      September 1, 2014 at 3:31 pm

      MOMMY snobbery is a thing.

    • Sarah

      September 1, 2014 at 3:35 pm

      A huge thing.

    • NIGHTHAVEN

      September 2, 2014 at 9:32 am

      LOL actually it is my ex bestie had 2 kids (boys) and then her 3rd a girl and she is a PRINCESS … ONLY the BEST cloth diapers and started posting on how everyone else was ruining the enviroment blah blah blah her Cloth Diapers were costing her $55 for ONE… damn good thing she is also a PRINCESS and her Mommy bought he these things so we could continue on with the TINY PRINCESS SNOWFLAKE

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 4:30 pm

      Yeah, and when you can’t afford a washer and dryer, and many laundromats have policies against washing diapers anyway, it’s not really a viable option.

    • Sarah

      September 1, 2014 at 5:02 pm

      That wasn’t my point. Was just giving a way of getting cheap cloth diapers after learning the hard way the past few years, in case anyone was interested. Go jump on someone else.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 6:18 pm

      Fine. This is about people so poor they can’t afford diapers, very likely they may also not be able to afford their own laundry. This is a board, anyone can respond or raise a point in response to anyone else, whether it was your “point” or not. Go hall monitor someone else. Funny how all your upvotes are people who have never posted on this site before. Did you all get lost on your way to babycenter?

    • Sarah

      September 1, 2014 at 7:19 pm

      What are you talking about? Plenty of poor people have washing machines and dryers. There are also tons of people who hand wash. I was just trying to help, not be blasted about some nonsense.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 9:07 pm

      If they do they should sell them for food so Rose White doesn’t have to keep subsidizing them.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 7:23 pm

    • Sarah

      September 1, 2014 at 7:32 pm

      Oh stop. I’m not invading. I comment here all the time. You’ve been annoying the hell out of me with all your dumb gifs since you showed up.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 7:41 pm

      You do realize that others here use gifs, right?

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 10:34 pm

      Referring to me?

      See, this is why I’m pissed.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 10:35 pm

      Sorry.The stupid…it’s getting to me. I’ll edit my comment.

      http://thehairpin.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Screen-shot-2012-03-12-at-9.08.58-PM.jpg

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 10:43 pm

      It’s fixed.
      Now where’s that Kamille Bidan pic…

    • ToninaMDC

      September 2, 2014 at 2:05 pm

      Did…did you seriously use a gif from MS Zeta Gundam in a comments section for a site unrelated to anime, comics, or gaming? *Cries tears of joy*

    • rockmonster

      September 2, 2014 at 4:55 pm

      SOMEONE NOTICED KAMILLE

      I used more on the Duggars article. 🙂

    • ToninaMDC

      September 2, 2014 at 9:50 pm

      I’m always going to notice a good anime gif. 🙂

  9. Elissa

    September 1, 2014 at 3:31 pm

    God, the idea of a parent trying to clean a disposable diaper so their baby can use it again because they can’t afford new ones just breaks my heart. I hate that so many families have to make that choice and that so many heartless assholes apparently think that doing so is some divine punshment for being poor.

  10. brebay

    September 1, 2014 at 4:27 pm

    What do you want to bet red is anti-abortion rights?

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 4:39 pm

      Fifty bitcoin.

    • keelhaulrose

      September 2, 2014 at 8:41 am

      And considers themselves a “good Christian”.

  11. Jamie

    September 1, 2014 at 6:07 pm

    Ugh. My husband and I decided to have another child, although we have for, because we wanted our daughter to have a suckling her age (the older three are my stepkids). We had everything we needed for a new baby, including a full set of cloth diapers in newborn through potty training sizes. And now we’re having identical twins-which are completely unpredictable and that totally messed up our entire budget. I’m really scared of the next few months before I go back to work, because u have no idea how I’m going to afford things!

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 6:12 pm

      That happened to one of my favorite teachers in high school. He and his wife were expecting their third…until the first ultrasound, when they learned they were suddenly expecting their third AND fourth. I wish you all the best, and in your case, I’ll keep my fingers crossed that you wind up receiving multiple baby showers!

    • Véronique the Attachment Shark

      September 1, 2014 at 6:13 pm

      You might not actually need that many new diapers. Get some cloth diapers that you can change the liner without changing the shell. The liners are super cheap and as long as your baby only pees, you can change that. If you go to a reputable store, they’ll advise you according to your actual needs, so that it doesn’t cost you very much. I use cloth diapers and have two kids still in diapers.

    • KatDuck

      September 1, 2014 at 10:11 pm

      We had friends go through that in grad school. To add to the pain, student housing only allowed four people (any age) per apartment so on top of the unexpected extra expenses they also had to find a new place to live in a pricy part of town. I felt for them – it was pretty much just the way things were done to have two kids before graduation so they were just following the pack … until the sonogram…

      I hope things work out well for you! In friends’ case he was able to juggle his classes so his last year was all online stuff and they wound up moving close to family so it worked … just not at all the way they planned. But it worked!

  12. Mehra Sarethi

    September 1, 2014 at 7:09 pm

    I would gladly pay more taxes so that babies and kids wouldn’t have to go without essentials, including health care. *gasps*! I would even gladly pay extra taxes so no adult would have to go without essentials either. I must be turning into one of those horrible people we call socialists.

    • NotTakenNotAvailableWTFDisqus

      September 1, 2014 at 7:12 pm

      Get outta here, you pot-smokin’, dirty-hippie-lovin’, commie-pinko-fascist! Whaddaya think this is, Canada?!?

    • whiteroses

      September 1, 2014 at 7:13 pm

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 7:14 pm

      I just snort-cackled.

    • Joye77

      September 2, 2014 at 5:04 pm

      Don’t tell anyone but I totally believe in socialism.
      Traditionally it seems conservatives hate it. But they also are the most Christian of the US population. So logically shouldn’t good Christians want to help others less fortunate?

    • Kelly

      September 2, 2014 at 10:12 am

      I’ve said it before on this site, and I’ll say it again: I promise to vote for any politician of any party who promises to raise my taxes in order to provide more public services. I don’t have the extra money to spend, but at the same time, I believe that taking care of each other is what we do, no questions asked.

    • Greta Young

      September 2, 2014 at 1:46 pm

      Yup, me too. A great indicator of a society’s health/wealth is how well it treats its most vulnerable: refugees, children, the poor, women, the sick/disabled, the elderly. Even biblical accounts of all the lineage & kingdoms will include statements about how slaves/women/children fared to “set the stage” so to speak for what the society was going through under that ruler.

    • Joye77

      September 2, 2014 at 5:07 pm

      I agree. I also think there are some personal hygiene items that should be included in a monthly SNAP benefit type form for less fortunate adults, ie: pads, tampons, soap, deodorant etc.
      Considering how much $$ this country is will to spend to support other countries and wars. I think we could definitely look out for our own people here.

  13. Gangle

    September 1, 2014 at 8:04 pm

    Why are people so damned shortsighted when it comes to helping people who are on their arses? My husband and I are fortunate enough that we have never had to rely on social welfare or the kindness of strangers, and touch wood we never will. Helping out people who are under financial strain is important, not because one day we may need that same help (although that is a possibility, however distant) but because we have to share the same world as these people. I donate money, and where possible, time to a local charity that helps kids from poverty-stricken backgrounds. The way I see it, these kids are growing up along side my daughter. These children are her peers, will make up the world she lives in. So by contributing to giving these kids a leg-up, I am gifting my own kid with a world that is just that little bit less sucky and unjust. Because these kids are going to impact her world and her life.

    • Blueathena623

      September 1, 2014 at 8:51 pm

      Because they are willing to throw the baby out with the bath water. Like innocent kids should go hungry because their parents may or may not be cheating welfare.

  14. April

    September 1, 2014 at 8:54 pm

    Nope, I shouldn’t have to fund diapers for people. If you can’t afford them then don’t have children. It’s bad enough my taxes support people who refuse to work and provide for themselves.

    • brebay

      September 1, 2014 at 8:57 pm

      Average cost of diapers for a month – $100
      Average reimbursement for child in foster care because its parent is turned in for not changing its diaper for days on end – $380 (national median reimbursement.)
      I’m amazed you’re not the secretary of the treasury…

    • Benwhoski

      September 1, 2014 at 10:07 pm

      This argument only works if I get to not have any of my taxes pay for redecorating congressional offices, wars I disagree with, subsidies to _corporations_ who abuse the welfare system (many multi-billion dollar corporations hire social work offices to help their employees sign up for public assistance, instead of just paying their employees living wages themselves. In other words, “Hey, how about _you_ pay our employees, taxpayers!”), standardized testing in public schools, non-profits whose practices I disapprove of, and other things I think are a poor use of my tax dollars.

      If I don’t get a la carte taxes, neither do you.

    • Zeenia

      September 2, 2014 at 3:48 am

      This comments thread is like the Carousel from Hell. Up and down and round and round it goes. You do realize that a TINY percentage of your taxes goes to fund people who use government assistance. There aren’t legions of people driving new cars and eating caviar and lobster while they laugh at the gullible fools who pay for their babies’ diapers.

    • Kelly

      September 2, 2014 at 10:10 am

      You shouldn’t have to fund food, medical care, and housing for rapists and murderers either. And you shouldn’t have to cover the portion of taxes that large corporations and the extremely wealthy don’t pay because of loopholes in the law. You shouldn’t have to pay for firefighters to put out fires in houses that don’t belong to you, or for the armed forces to kill people in countries you will never see for reasons you could never begin to fully understand. But you know what? That’s the price of living in a civilized society. That’s what it takes to make the world function in a way that you enjoy every single day without realizing it. FFS.

  15. simoneutecht

    September 1, 2014 at 10:01 pm

    When I had my second child, my son a friend of mine bought me 2 of the biggest boxes of diapers that Costco had. I didn’t have to buy until he was 6 months old which was great.

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 10:04 pm

      Your friends are great. 🙂

  16. brebay

    September 1, 2014 at 10:17 pm

    Seems to be more than one person confused about the definition of “charity.”

    http://www.examiner.com/article/billionaire-threatens-charity-donations-if-pope-continues-support-for-the-poor

    • rockmonster

      September 1, 2014 at 10:22 pm

      *facepalm*

      Look at all those comments, though.

  17. Princess Kenzie

    September 1, 2014 at 10:37 pm

    I’m 19 and expecting my first child. If my life was different I would probably be one of those who would benefit from a diaper drive. As it is I’m lucky enough that I have wealthy parents and a substantial trust fund, as well as a fiancé with a decent job.

    I am also going to donate a ton of diapers to my local food pantry tomorrow.

    • Courtney Lynn

      September 2, 2014 at 2:26 pm

      Because you fucking rock.

  18. Rumaikiyya

    September 1, 2014 at 11:15 pm

    Haven’t seen this posted yet, but if you’d like to donate to a not-for-profit that helps provide low-income parents with diapers, you can try the National Diaper Bank Network (http://nationaldiaperbanknetwork.org/)

  19. KatDuck

    September 2, 2014 at 12:26 am

    So I grew up in a middle-class turned upper-middle class family and while there were some lean times and some times we did without small luxuries (eating out, cable, etc), we were never poor and there was never uncertainty over where the next meal was coming from. Thanks to those leaner times (always accompanied by a steady job), my parents were certain they knew all about being poor and could spot those mythical welfare queens and moochers.

    I grew up. I moved out. I went to school. I lost my job. Turns out there’s a whole world of uncertainty and poverty that I never knew existed. It’s a whole different thing on that side of the fence. it’s one thing to have a tight budget for groceries; another to have $20 in the bank and no idea if or when more might ever arrive. To chose your job interviews based on whether you have enough gas to get there because you can’t afford to refill the tank. To go to a foodbank, fill out the little card for a request, and take it knowing that those random cans and bags comprise next week’s meals no matter how poorly the ingredients go together.

    It beats you down and all around there’s people who just. don’t. get it. Who want to meet you for lunch or see a movie or just get coffee and it’s humiliating to admit how much of your monthly budget that takes.

    And it’s frustrating working long hours for just enough to not quite meet all the bills and know you’re just getting in deeper and then it’s Friday and everyone else is out blowing unimaginable amounts on entertainment and, by god, you just want one night when you’re not living this life so you get pizza and say to hell with the budget for once because you just can’t. And that’s how it /is/. It’s hard to make the best choices when everything seems against you and it’s like you can either make a good choice and it’s a little better or a bad choice and it’s a little worse but the bad choice makes these next few hours a little better. How much future cost is that worth? And it piles up.

    Someday we’ll be rich enough to cover the basics and, when that happens, we already have our charities picked out. It sucks to be poor and no one should be trapped in that hopeless spiral.

  20. jendra_berri

    September 2, 2014 at 12:49 am

    If you don’t have access to your own washer, forget cloth diapering. Like, just forget it. The amount of time it would take to get to one every couple days for the hours it would take to wash them properly, with a baby in tow, if you could even find a laundromat that would allow you to do it is not sensible. Also, laundromats are expensive, as is coin-operated shared laundry in apartments.
    Like, say $3 a wash, so minimum $6 to do your diaper load, every couple days. probably $18 a week just to wash your diapers, plus detergent and dryer costs. How does this save money?
    It doesn’t.

  21. ShanLea

    September 2, 2014 at 1:37 am

    My mom works for the local health department/WIC office, and they keep a stash on hand to give out to needy mothers. It’s usually donated or a cheap small pack bought by the employees. It’s for sure not enough for a whole month, but may make a difference for a mother waiting for her next payday. I contributed a lot since my son had a habit of growing out of a size a week after I’d bought the Sam’s Club mega pack. Although I’ve been fortunate to not need assistance, I can’t imagine the mindset of “they don’t deserve it.” Babies are not responsible for any poor choices their parents make (which isn’t every case) Would you say that a homeless shelter didn’t need toilet paper in the bathrooms because some of the people there may have made poor choices that got them into that situation??

  22. M.

    September 2, 2014 at 7:32 am

    I used a combination of cloth and disposable and I can tell you from experience that cloth diapering isn’t some kind of low-income panacea. The initial outlay was A LOT to spend at once. My mom got me the newborn and small starter pack, which ran about $200 bucks, only lasted until my son was about 2 months old (and he’s tiny, hanging out in the 7th percentile back then), and did not come with nearly enough diapers and pads to use them exclusively. When he grew out of them I did not have the funds to buy the pack for the next size up (another $150), and if I’d wanted to continue there would have been a 3rd size to invest in before it was all said and done. Obviously I spent that much on disposables eventually, but I just didn’t have that kind of cash sitting around to spend all at once. And this is just talking about the monetary outlay for the actual diapers and the pads that go in them. I was a WAHM and didn’t have to deal with excessive laundry on top of a work schedule and it was STILL more than I could handle to keep up with keeping enough clean to use the cloth exclusively. AND I have a washer/dryer in my house. Daycare is another really important consideration…I don’t think there are many out there willing to deal with cloth diapers, so pretty much any working mom is SOL on that front. Personally I think it’s absolutely ridiculous that there’s not an exception for diapers in the WIC program since clean diapers are just as important for low-income babies as good nutrition and cloth just isn’t a viable option for a whole lotta people.

    • Sara610

      September 2, 2014 at 9:41 am

      Not to mention that a lot of low-income people are renters, not homeowners, and even IF there’s a washing machine in their building, some landlords don’t allow renters to wash cloth diapers with feces in their machines. And when you’re doing coin-op and it costs between three and five dollars to wash and dry a single load of laundry, that really adds up when you’re washing cloth diapers.

      It’s not that cloth diapers are a bad thing–they’re awesome, and if you have the resources available to make it work, that’s fantastic. But it’s insulting and inaccurate to say that low-income parents should just cloth diaper and if they did, all their problems would be solved, so if they have diaper issues it must just be because of their own entitlement and laziness.

  23. Rachel Sea

    September 2, 2014 at 1:35 pm

    Head Start and Early Head Start are in constant need of diapers. Children in those programs are provided with diapers during the day, and often sent home with diapers as-needed. Donating diapers instead of cash also helps the programs meet state and federal mandates for in-kind donations to help keep the programs running.

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