Childrearing

Are You There, Moms? It’s Me, Idiot What If You Don’t Like Your Kid?

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mom adviceAre You There, Moms? It’s Me, Idiot is an ongoing series dedicated to helping one very well-intentioned and dumb future-parent learn about the world of childrearing. Click here to see past columns.

I would preface this by saying “this might be a stupid question,” but the very nature of this column guarantees that most of the questions are pretty stupid. You see, I have this somewhat bizarre fear that one day I’ll have kids and I just won’t like them. Of course, I’ll lay down in traffic and love him or her more than I ever felt possible, but what about liking?

Of course you don’t have to like your kids all the time. I’d assume that during the six month of consecutive sleepless nights or when your teen steals your car to meet her fiancé that she met on OkCupid, you’re not overwhelmed by feelings of like for your kid. What I fear is an all the time dislike–simply finding him or her unpleasant to be around (more likely as a grown up). Please don’t tell me I’m an awful person. I already know.

It stands to reason that there are some wholly unpleasant, awful, disagreeable, patently unlikable person in this world who have perfectly wonderful parents. I’ve met some of them–weirdos who are just insufferable, rude, annoying, or cruel, but seem to have come out of nowhere. Their parents are awesome and lovely people, and yet their spawn is intolerable. I’m hardly saying that I’d be a perfect parent, but I’m simply illustrating that even in the best case scenario, some people just totally suck.

I suppose the answer might be that you don’t have to like your kids–the love blinders are strong enough to obscure their twattishness. Is that the case? HELP.

46 Comments

  1. UterineDudebroWhoLikesOlives

    June 27, 2014 at 5:31 pm

    “Please don’t tell me I’m an awful person. I already know.”

    I’m not going to tell you you’re an awful person because I think this is a perfectly valid question. I mean, there are wonderful, lovely people who have absolutely shit parents, so I imagine the same is true for wonderful, lovely people who have shit kids.

    My son is only 6 1/2. I’m legally obligated to at least pretend to like him, so I don’t have any real insight to offer, but I would guess that parents of horrible kids just have to do the best they can until the kid is 18 at which point they could conceivably say “Smell ya later.” Although whether they actually do that is a whole ‘nother ball of kittens.

    I’d be interested to read how others who actually have horrible kids have handled this.

    Note: And the crack about “legally pretending to like my kid” was just a joke. I happen to really like my kid and think he’s pretty awesome. Hopefully it continues that way.

  2. Great Hall Academy

    June 27, 2014 at 6:01 pm

    Kids, like adults, often go through phases. Things can change, wait it out!

  3. Heather

    June 27, 2014 at 6:21 pm

    I dislike my kids a lot. A majority of the time, actually. Of course, I act enthused and shower them with praise and affection as often as I can because they don’t need to know I don’t like them. It’s not their fault, really. I make it through by 1) Holding out hope that it will get “better” and I will find them less repugnant as they age and 2) knowing that I had kids young and even if I never “like” them I will be an empty nester before I’m too old to enjoy it.

    I don’t even think they are particularly “bad kids” and when I do like them, I like them a WHOLE LOT. I just think, on a whole, if they were adults with the same personality traits my kids seem to have, I wouldn’t want to hang with them. Again, I hold out hope that it’s just how young they are and that I just don’t like having toddlers/preschoolers and that they are cooler when they are older.

    • Ms.Anne'sNotoriousLadygarden

      June 27, 2014 at 6:26 pm

      I’m pretty sure toddlers/preschoolers in general are just jerks. Mine sure can be a lot of the time. Most of them seem to grow out of it. So you probably don’t have to worry about it 😉

    • Heather

      June 27, 2014 at 7:00 pm

      That is good to know! That is where my hope comes from. I just see a lot of myself in them, sometimes, and that worries me. I’ve never really gotten along with people with the same type of personality as me and I keep hoping that they pick up more traits from their dad (who I obviously like, at least a little. ;P) and grow out of whatever I have given them. LOL

    • NotTakenNotAvailable

      June 27, 2014 at 7:21 pm

      I never grew out of personality traits that drove my mother nuts. I turned out to be a LOT like my father (the Force is strong in the Skywalker family; Asperger’s is strong in mine, I guess), and since my mother was hoping for someone who was affectionate like her mother and not physically distant the way my father’s family is, I get the feeling she would not have liked me at all if it hadn’t been for all those hormones and shit I mentioned in my other comment.

      All I can really say on the matter is that even if your kids don’t turn out like the parent you’d rather they emulate, my experience suggests that they’ll appreciate it if you don’t try to push them in the opposite direction. I know part of the struggle I had in my relationship with my mother was that the closer she tried to get, the more space I needed, and the result is a series of comments on Mommyish that make her sound like Mommie Dearest (which, I should clarify, she was NOT…she just had some unaddressed mental-health struggles and personality traits that, obviously, clashed with mine).

    • Heather

      June 27, 2014 at 7:30 pm

      Well, I certainly am not planning (and hope to not inadvertently) to push them either way in their personalities. I try to accept that they are their own people, that their surroundings have some impact on them, but not the ultimate control of their personalities, and that all I can do is love them through my dislike of them. LOL

      I mean, as the author, Julia, insinuated I’d die in a fire before I let anything bad happen to them, even if that bad thing is me being unloving to them. I just find it exhausting to be around their personalities and I burn out quickly and need frequent breaks (afternoons to go grocery shopping by myself or an evening to go out with a friend kind of breaks, not like leaving them or anything). I don’t THINK it is all about them being young, but I hope it is, so that they’ll grow out of it. But there is a lot of “sass” in each of them that I think I passed on

    • NotTakenNotAvailable

      June 27, 2014 at 7:35 pm

      I think knowing what your limitations are and how to work within them is a big plus! And it’s my understanding that young children are convinced that the sun rises and sets on their whim, so it’s very likely that some of the attitude will go away once they realize that the people around them are, y’know, actual people and not just mindless serving robots programmed exclusively for their desires.

    • Heather

      June 27, 2014 at 7:37 pm

      Oooh, Mindless serving robots kinda describes them, in general, perfectly. LOL

  4. Ursi

    June 27, 2014 at 6:34 pm

    Hey everyone’s thought about this.

    I think good old biology takes care of most of the bonding stuff but there are people who just don’t like their kids and there are kids who are pretty dislikable. This is something I’ve tried to convey to my mother who seems to think it’s sacrilegious to even suggest that parent’s don’t immediately bond with their children– to which I point out, but I don’t bond with children NOW. I would be a disaster if I had children just because it’s a thing to do (as so many clueless people suggest) and end up regretting them because they’re awful or I’m awful or whatever.

    Whenever I see a terrible person come from good parents I does shake me up a bit. There’s one I know of– parents are amazing people, a handful of kids grew up to be respectable and responsible and one is a complete asshole. And the parents still adore their offspring but are also fully aware that offspring is an asshole and have to set firmer boundaries because of it. It’s kind of humbling to think that you could magically do it all right and still end up producing a total jerk.

    • gothicgaelicgirl

      June 28, 2014 at 12:14 pm

      There are some days (I am ashamed to admit it) where I really don’t like my stepdaughter.
      I love her to bits but there are some days where, as her dad even puts it, she just acts like a little shit.
      The rolling eyes, the muttering at me, the constant lying and arguments when we catch her out in the lies, the showing off and the one that drives me mad, if we correct her on something, i get the rolling eyes and she’ll say I’m wrong and stupid.

      TRYING to be patient as puberty is not being kind to her (10 and already started her monthlies) so I am putting it down to hormones but the last few weeks have been extremely trying lol.

      Phases like this have come and gone so I’m hoping that’s what it is. I know it’s not just me, her dad has had to have words with her before too.

      I do make it clear though, that there are times where there is someone you love but who can annoy you, and even if we had a bad day or she got given out to, or she’s upset me, we all still love each other- we just don’t have to LIKE each other every minute of every day!

      That’s what my mom used to say if we had a fight- “I love you, and I always will, but I don’t have to LIKE you very much right this moment”

    • Alanna Jorgensen

      June 28, 2014 at 2:52 pm

      I’m going through some similar issues with my 10 year old stepson. His mom and I have compared notes and he’s pretty much the same at either house. I think a lot of it is prepubescence and some of it is residual anger from the divorce, because it really does affect them when their parents aren’t together, no matter the reason. He’s got a heart of gold, but can be mouthy and dishonest and a less than great listener. Not to mention he has 4 half siblings all much younger than him (2 girls and a boy from his mom and a 1 girl from me), and they drive him bonkers, lol. I feel his pain on that one. My sisters are 11 and 13 years younger than me, respectively. I try to be consistent and fair, but it is hard when preteens get that nasty little look on their face when you’ve told them four times to do something and the fourth time was not as patient as the previous three. My daughter is 4, so she’s every bit as trying, just in a preschooler way.

  5. NotTakenNotAvailable

    June 27, 2014 at 6:47 pm

    One of my community college students told me, apropos of nothing I can recall at the moment, that she “loved [her] kids, but didn’t necessarily like them.” I’m guessing the hormones and shit are probably enough to keep most sane people from murdering even the most insufferable of their offspring–at least that was how I interpreted her comment. Since I don’t believe I’m even capable of unconditional love (a high degree of self-sufficiency is an absolute requirement for my companionship, hence why I love my cat but not, say, my ex-boyfriend), I am certain my nonexistent kids would be raging cockstains because I have no doubt that being tolerated but not loved takes its toll.

  6. NoMissCleo...JustMe

    June 27, 2014 at 6:55 pm

    I understand where you’re coming from, to a certain extent…I don’t worry about liking or not liking my child, but instead being able to relate to her and having things in common.

    My father was a big-time athlete throughout his life, but neither of my older brothers played sports (one being completely not athletic and the other having health-related issues) and even though my dad went to their theatre and choir performances, they both felt some sort of disconnect and disappointment emanating from my father. I just think my dad couldn’t relate to what my brothers were interested in – like I said, he tried to be supportive, but didn’t have the enthusiasm for their activities that he did for my basketball and volleyball.

    I think that’s my fear – that my daughter will be interested in and passionate about something completely foreign to me and that it will be a struggle to connect with her. I don’t know if that’s really related to the topic at hand, but I think it’s something that many parents struggle with in regards to their children.

    • jane

      June 27, 2014 at 10:20 pm

      I think that if you are interested in your daughter and enjoy spending time with her, you’ll find joy in the things that she likes to do, even if they aren’t really your thing. For example, this afternoon, if my kids weren’t home, I would have spent the afternoon reading my book. But I whiled away a perfectly lovely hour playing Donkey Kong with my son because he was just so into it. Doesn’t mean that I want to spend my days talking about minecraft or anything, but we can still find ways to connect.

      I feel like kids are like those amazing teachers you have in high school or college – the one that was lecturing on geology or sociology or whatever and you were like “there’s no fucking way in hell I’m doing this for the rest of my life, but this class is SO COOL!” If you can get into it for a little bit, it doesn’t have to totally be your thing. You can just have those moments.

  7. meteor_echo

    June 27, 2014 at 6:59 pm

    A PSA from someone who was an unloved kid:

    1) We know you don’t love us. Kids are not dumb, and yes, they’re observative even if you pretend well.
    2) We don’t mind as long as you treat us like people. Don’t act your dislike out on us, and that’ll do, honestly.
    3) Sometimes, treat us more like you’d treat a friend. Decent adult conversations would be a good thing, even when we’re still kids. It shows us that at least you trust us.
    4) Please, please don’t harass us for grandkids. We see what life can be when you have a kid you don’t want, and we don’t have a desire to repeat.

    • NotTakenNotAvailable

      June 27, 2014 at 7:04 pm

      Wait, so, your parents apparently didn’t want kids, but they do want grandkids?!? WTAF. I’m sorry.

    • meteor_echo

      June 27, 2014 at 7:17 pm

      Basically, my father harassed my mother into trying for another child after one stillborn pregnancy. She honestly should’ve been childfree (and yet, now she sometimes talks about grandkids but my father doesn’t).
      My reaction is pretty much this: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/Jenny_Wildcat/Gifs/PC_WhattheHellkyrina.gif

    • NotTakenNotAvailable

      June 27, 2014 at 7:25 pm

      Ohhhh, parents. My mother once sniffed that she really hated babies and small children when I was still a young child myself (luckily, at the time, I hadn’t developed enough general awareness to take offense to that). Then, when I had a pregnancy scare at 20, she enthusiastically volunteered to take in the baby that was fortunately a non-issue. So that ^ was pretty much my reaction as well.

    • meteor_echo

      June 27, 2014 at 7:34 pm

      Yup. Cognitive dissonance at its best ._.

    • pixie Ninja Tits

      June 27, 2014 at 7:41 pm

      My boyfriend found out fairly recently that his maternal grandmother “convinced” his parents to have a baby (probably a lot of whining at them) when they didn’t really want one, even though she already had two grandkids before my boyfriend was born. He was also an accident and happened way earlier than planned.
      Now, I think his mom wants to be a grandmother because she’ll “talk” for my boyfriends gecko and say things like “oh look, the gecko’s out, and he’s saying ‘hi, grandma!!!!'” in this really annoying voice that I think she thinks is “cutesy”. It’s….kind of freaky. (especially on top of her and my boyfriend’s father referring to themselves as “mama” and “daddy” when they “talk” for their dog…)

    • NotTakenNotAvailable

      June 27, 2014 at 7:48 pm

      Oh man, I think your boyfriend’s mom and my ex-boyfriend’s mom are tuned in to the same channel. My ex mother-in-link (thanks, awesome former editor on this website I wrote for!) didn’t talk to the gecko in a cutesy voice (though…WTF?!? I think reptiles are cool, but not baby-talkable!), but she would, it seemed to me, pointedly coo at passing babies in my presence.

      She and another ex of mine also seemed to operate under the delusion that just because I turn into a high-pitched pile of mush when there’s a cute li’l cuddly kitty in the near vicinity, I would eventually “come around” to feeling the same way about babies. I never bothered to explain the differences between cats and babies, though I’m now thinking I should “accidentally” email both the link to the recent article here highlighting why cats are better than babies.

    • pixie Ninja Tits

      June 27, 2014 at 7:51 pm

      Oh wow. Yeah, that would irritate the hell out of me.
      It’s not like I don’t want to become a parent at some point, I just feel like I nowhere near ready yet. Plus I’m not sure if I’d ever let her look after any spawn of mine if the boyfriend and I did procreate (luckily, he didn’t catch the crazy)

    • NotTakenNotAvailable

      June 27, 2014 at 7:55 pm

      I might have been projecting based on my ex’s assertions that his mother really wanted to have more children and had hinted (to him–to her credit, this was never in my presence) that she would like for him to make up for that by settling down with a nice girl and giving her grandkids to babysit. Also to her credit, I do think she’d probably be a good grandmother…I might not think much of my ex, but I don’t think his issues are her fault, or at least not completely! 😛

      Reading over this, I think I may have just won at Backhanded Compliment Badminton without realizing I’d entered the competition. Oy vey.

    • Cruelty Cupcake

      June 27, 2014 at 11:16 pm

      What’s up with #4? My mom absolutely hated me but she is completely obsessed with my sons. She thinks I’m going to let them visit her for days at a time..? I wouldn’t leave them unsupervised with her for more than an hour.

    • meteor_echo

      June 28, 2014 at 2:36 am

      I have no fucking idea. Like, yeah mom, I’d let you stay around a hypothetical child after you’ve treated me like shit for years and became the reason why I have body dysmorphic disorder. Riiiiiight.

    • Liz

      June 28, 2014 at 10:03 am

      That is absolutely my problem. My mom doesn’t like me, tries to bully me into her point of view, then sulks about it when I don’t buy into it, then tries to go behind my back to get her way (case in point – when I had my second son two months ago, she did NOT want me to leave the hospital after 24 hours; she said her piece, I didn’t agree, kept bringing it up, then sulked, then had several conversations with my nurse (!) that resulted in my nurse trying to pressure me into staying the second day).

      She doesn’t respect my values or choices and I don’t trust her judgement, so like hell will you be babysitting my sons. We use my MIL the few times a year we need a sitter.

    • breakfastburrito

      June 28, 2014 at 10:03 am

      All of this. Except number 4. Once I mentioned I was off of birth control and my mother gave me a look of horror. God forbid I have any spawn of my own. At least I know where she stands on that.

    • Kelly

      June 28, 2014 at 1:16 pm

      Yes, exactly. I was about to type out a long response but this sums it up. My parents never liked me. They could have at least treated me decently and respectfully and that would have sufficed.

      It wouldn’t have been ideal but I would love to be able to be acquaintances with my parents as an adult. I know they’ll never like me but they could make an effort to just have coffee with me once a year or so and make small talk without insulting me. It would be nice.

    • Oliver

      June 28, 2014 at 9:05 pm

      Oh god number four. I have PTSD to the point I need a service animal, all from my childhood. Everyone still feels obligated to grand kids.

    • meteor_echo

      June 29, 2014 at 2:11 am

      Holy fuck, I’m sorry. I hope those people aren’t in your life anymore 🙁

  8. whiteroses

    June 27, 2014 at 7:22 pm

    I think that you can love someone with your entire heart and not like them very much. I have some days when I don’t like my son very much, some days when I think my husband’s a complete douchenozzle, and some days when my godson annoys the living hell out of me. And I wonder why I agreed to be a mother, wife, or godmother.

    Would I take a terminal illness, or a life threatening situation for any of them, even when they’re being the WORST? Hell, yes I would. Because for the most part, I can easily fake it until I make it, and if tomorrow’s shit, then the next day will be awesome. Eventually, because I love all three of them more than my own life, I know it’ll be all right.

  9. Joye77

    June 27, 2014 at 7:42 pm

    I have experienced this with my eldest son. My second and third sons are snuggly and loving and helpful and sweet. But my oldest was a very cranky and irritable baby and also acted out inappropriately at school and yelled at other kids, he spent most of kindergarten suspended for behavior issues.He keeps more to himself and is simply different from his brothers. He is very sensitive and doesn’t like a lot of noise but questions everything and talks all the time. His teachers all hated him.
    So I found myself irritated by him, annoyed at his quirks and oddities for years. Then I realized that he is just like me. I was just like him as a child, actually if you take his unusual behaviors and quirks and multiply them, that was me.
    When I realized this it made me feel a certain kinship with him since I understand him now. I make sure I am more patient with him and try to put myself in his brain to understand his feelings. I feel closer to him now, and I realize also, what my mother must have experienced with me!
    BTW: he has been evaluated by a psychologist that has determined that he is not on any “spectrums” or anything, he simply ” marches to the beat of his own drummer” (actual quote from the report.)

    • Emil

      June 27, 2014 at 7:52 pm

      So much about this that I love. Your son is lucky to have a mother that understands and accepts him. Also happy you found a psychologist who didn’t create pathology out of your son’s unique behavior.

    • NotTakenNotAvailable

      June 27, 2014 at 8:09 pm

      I love your son’s psychologist. I know there are a few with a sense of humor, but it’s rare enough to hear evidence of it!

      Also I think I can see where you’re coming from as far as relating to your son. I’m pretty much the poster child for self-acceptance (I know I have flaws, but since I’m not in jail because of them, people who can’t look past those issues can suck it), but I’m pretty sure I would despise having to deal with my exact same personality in miniaturized form. Good on you for being patient and understanding!

  10. AP

    June 27, 2014 at 7:59 pm

    I’m actually surprised that this question was aimed at parents of small children, not adult children. I actually know a decent number of people who were decent, if human and imperfect, parents, who loved their kids and did their best. Yet either some of the kids grew up to have a hugely different personality, or didn’t share any values with the parents, and the kid interpreted the parents’ reasonable parenting decisions as somehow offensive, and the relationship is strained as a result.

    It’s kind of insane for me to realize that these parents who cared and tried could end up with a kid who was resentful because they couldn’t read the kid’s mind or see into the future.

    • UterineDudebroWhoLikesOlives

      June 28, 2014 at 9:28 am

      I based my answer off of an adult child perspective. I didn’t really consider that yes, parents of small kids could dislike their own children too. Then I remembered that when my son was 3 1/2 we went through a 3-month phase where I can say that yes, I really did not like my kid. He was continually grouchy and combative, to a point where I dreaded coming home after work. I still loved him, but no, I really didn’t like him.

      A guy I know (I hesitate to call him a friend or even an acquaintance) has seemingly lovely, reasonable parents, but he himself is an entitled, arrogant, vengeful, what’s-in-it-for-me? jackass. His siblings are decent people too, but he’s not, and I often wonder where his attitude comes from. (It’s possible there is something in the family dynamic I’m not privy to.)

  11. Blueathena623

    June 27, 2014 at 8:23 pm

    Honestly, the best way to deal with child love is to not think of it as magically, mystically, one million times better/stronger than other types of love. I love my parents, but sometimes I don’t like them. I love my sister, but sometimes I don’t like her. I love my husband, but sometimes I don’t like him. My toddler has a cold and uses me as a human Kleenex. Guess how I feel.

  12. jane

    June 27, 2014 at 9:52 pm

    Huh. I found these comments kind of disheartening. I’m not judging, I just wanted to say that I pretty much always like my kids. I mean, yes, there are many days where they are little shits, but I still like them, by and large. My kids are 6 and 9, and they do often drive me crazy, but I still wouldn’t say that I don’t like them.

    I do vaguely remember liking them less when they were little, because playing with little kids all the time is annoying and kids are annoying. But now that they’re people, they’re pretty cool little people.

    So I guess, wait? If you don’t like them, wait. The love you have for them will carry you through and then you won’t even remember not liking them. Or at least, that’s been my experience.

  13. Katherine Handcock

    June 28, 2014 at 6:40 am

    I think there’s absolutely a difference between loving your kids and liking your kids. And honestly, there are a number of phases where kids aren’t that likeable, even if you love them to pieces. I mean, think about it this way: even totally adoring adult partners have moments where they look at each other and think, “Oh, man, you are SO annoying and stupid and frustrating!!”

    My son is now old enough that I have actually articulated this to him in a way he can understand: when he has a bad day, before bed, I make sure to give him a big hug and say, “We had a rough day today, but I know you always love me, and I hope you know I always love you. You can love someone and still be angry or frustrated or upset with them. We’ll try to have a better day tomorrow.”

  14. M.

    June 28, 2014 at 9:16 am

    I think this is the thing about children that allows the majority of them to make it to adulthood without being murdered: in the span of 5 minutes they can go from being so annoying you’d like to chuck them out a window to being so incredibly sweet and adorable that you’re overcome with love and affection for them. Sometimes I DON’T like my kid very much (he’s 3), but a few minutes later I think he’s the greatest thing to ever walk the earth. Maybe you’d have a kid whose less likeable than my kid, I dunno, but I think most parents feel this way about their kids, even the really unlikable ones.

  15. breakfastburrito

    June 28, 2014 at 9:57 am

    “You’re JUST like your father!” was the go-to phrase whenever I did something that my mother would never do. Well mom, you’ve been married to the man for over 30 years so there must be something you like about him. Odds are if you have a kid, they might be more like your spouse than yourself.

    My sister is a clone of my mother so she was always the more well-liked sibling. I think as an adult I can understand why—sometimes it’s just easier to relate and understand people who are like yourself. But as a child, I really resented the favoritism. I honestly believe that if I have children, she will favor my sister’s over mine. I wouldn’t want my hypothetical children to go through that. Therapy is expensive.

    • breakfastburrito

      June 28, 2014 at 10:01 am

      Weird, it left out a paragraph: I think that it’s somewhat normal to not like certain people, even if they are your own kids. The key is to not let it show. Focus on their positive attributes. We can sense the tension and frustration, and it will stay with us for a lifetime. I moved cross country to get away from my mother and will likely not have kids because of her.

  16. Becky Dimly

    June 28, 2014 at 4:50 pm

    To like or be liked is not something you can force. I don’t like my parent. They’re not terrible, I just don’t like them and the feeling is mutual. We’re so different and yet so much in common it’s so annoying.
    I don’t know if I’ll like my adult daughter later because she’s only 2 years old now. But if I don’t, I’ll just love her. A lot.

  17. KittenTeaParty

    June 28, 2014 at 4:50 pm

    I’m expecting my first kid, and my biggest fear up till now was, what if i don’t like my kid? what if my kid is a jerk? i’m 34 and it’s the #1 reason I’ve waited this long. I finally figured i’d probably like him/her and while i can worry about it, i should also be sure to worry about the host of genetic wild cards we could be dealt. because i have about as much ability to change that now too. so fingers crossed.

  18. guets

    June 30, 2014 at 9:42 am

    This is absolutely possible to love your kids and not like them. My MIL I’m quite certain by this point hates two of her kids and with good reason. They’ve both grown up to be terrible people and blame their life’s problems on her for the most part. It doesn’t seem to matter much to her and she still contacts them on the reg. The one is verbally and emotionally abusive to her but she lets it continue. We’ve discussed it at length and tried to get her to cut off contact but she can’t do it for long so at this point we stay out of it. It is too irritating to me, to watch someone let another person (let alone their kid) treat them like crap and they don’t do anything..much like watching a toddler in Target smack their mom in the face repeatedly and nothing happens.
    Theirs was the first family I’ve met though where they basically were open about their kid’s flaws although most families don’t have kids with such giant character flaws.

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