Childrearing

Maybe This 8-Year-Old Cursed At An Adult Because His Dad Spanks Him

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Court Ruled father Used Reasonable Force In Spanking CaseI’ve known plenty of eight-year-old kids in my day. In my experience, eight-year-olds are pretty agreeable humans, they are past the whiny stage that we all associate with younger kids, and not yet at the age where they want to steal your car and all your vodka. They are young enough to still want to be cuddled but old enough where they can understand the difference between right and wrong, which is why I think there is a whole lot more to this story about a father who was recently ruled to have used a reasonable amount of force after spanking his kid after a dinner party. From Newsday.com:

Last week’s ruling by the Appellate Division of State Supreme Court dismissed a child neglect proceeding against a man who, in October 2012, spanked his 8-year-old son for cursing at an adult during the party at a friend’s house.

In March 2013, the father was ruled in neglect by the Suffolk County Family Court after the county’s Department of Social Services said he spanked the child with an open hand as punishment and then, returning home, struck his son with a belt on his “buttocks, legs and arms.”

“We find that the Family Court’s finding of neglect was not supported by a preponderance of the credible evidence,” the appellate court said in its ruling Wednesday.

The father admitted spanking the child but denied striking him with a belt, the ruling said. Neither the name of the father nor the child was released by the court.

“The father’s open-handed spanking of the child as a form of discipline after he heard the child curse at an adult was a reasonable use of force and, under the circumstances presented here, did not constitute excessive corporal punishment,” the appeals court ruling said.

 

Now, sure, I would be mad if I had a kid who swore at an adult at a party. Maybe this kid is a little hooligan with no manners who thinks behavior like this is OK. I get pretty ticked off at kids who don’t respect their elders. But I can’t help thinking there is a reason why a kid would find this sort of behavior okay, and it’s probably because no one at home taught them not to do it, or they are modeling their parents, or they have some other sort of anger issue manifesting itself in acting out. Maybe the kid is cursing because he is spanked at home?

I’m not sure spanking a kid does anything other than prove you are bigger, stronger, and able to hurt them. Wheee. I don’t see how that makes a kid behave. I know plenty of you out there were spanked as kids and turned out just fine, but I also don’t think any of you would recall being spanked as something that turned you into the humans you are today. I’m not a hitter. I don’t believe it does anything to teach a kid right from wrong, and the few times I lost my temper and smacked my kids on their behinds only resulted in me feeling like a monster and having a whole lot of guilt over the situation.

There are so many details we don’t know in this case but one aspect I find alarming is if it were no thing then how did CPS get involved and how did this case make it all the way to court? Also the mention of the belt being used is concerning, because an open-handed smack on the behind and striking a kid with a belt are two totally different things.

I admit it, I don’t understand parents who use hitting or spanking as a form of discipline. I don’t think it’s a very effective way of teaching a kid right from wrong or not to curse at adults at dinner parties. And even though I don’t know the details in the case, I’m pretty sure the fact it went to court caused a lot more broken trust than a dropped F-bomb at a grownup at a party.

(Image:  olegganko/shutterstock)

111 Comments

  1. ERMH

    July 22, 2014 at 8:11 am

    Agree. And for the record, just because someone was spanked as a child and “they turned out fine” does not make it ok. Thats like saying “my mom drank heavily while she was pregnant with me and I turned out fine, so its ok if I do it too.” No. We should learn from past bad practices, not continue to repeat them out of a misguided sense of tradition and lazy parenting.

    • Eve Vawter

      July 22, 2014 at 8:17 am

      It’s always the most common sentiment when discussing spanking. “I was spanked and I turned out fine”

    • Rachel Sea

      July 22, 2014 at 1:38 pm

      I got choked and I turned out fine. Having a phobia about anything touching my throat scarcely affects my day to day life at all.

    • Ursi

      July 22, 2014 at 8:51 am

      According to my mother I once ate half of a moth. I’m totally fine.

      We should incorporate this into parenting, by that logic.

    • WhoremonalCrazyLotusBitch

      July 22, 2014 at 9:13 am

      I’m going to use that logic every time my BIL talks about how “fine” he is having been belted as a child, “I ate rat poison and had my stomach pumped as a child and I’m fine, would you like me to go grab a box at the store for your toddler?”

  2. Obladi Oblada

    July 22, 2014 at 8:19 am

    Welp…my youngest boy called my oldest boy an asshole the other day. It wasn’t because I had spanked him. It was because he had heard me call his dad an asshole when I was mad at him so he followed my lead. (We have since had a conversation about kid language and adult language. ;))
    The fact that CPS was involved and it went to court is very telling. The kid must have been bruised or told someone. There’s more to this than they’re telling.

    • JenH1986

      July 22, 2014 at 8:22 am

      I think dad spanking him twice is odd. I was spanked as a child (i’m not fine, but that has less to do with being spanked and more to do with being raised by an alcoholic) and I was spanked then and there for my transgression. I didn’t get spanked again when we got home with a belt. That seems off to me. The kid was already punished.

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 8:27 am

      I’ve been a foster parent for years. In what I’ve seen (obviously I can’t speak for everyone or every case), CPS doesn’t get involved unless their is undeniable proof of abuse.
      If we did something warranting a spanking (going on and on after being told multiple times to stop), my dad would tell us he was gonna get the belt when we got home. He rarely did because he was too afraid to hurt us. My mom would do it from time to time but it was used more as a way to get our attention (read: it sounded loud but didn’t hurt).
      Something is definitely off here and it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

    • JenH1986

      July 22, 2014 at 9:12 am

      Yea. I’ve called CPS so many times and the only time i see them actually get involved is when it’s…really really bad.

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 9:21 am

      Our youngest was removed from a meth home when he was placed with us…then all the charges were dropped against his parents. *sigh*

    • JenH1986

      July 22, 2014 at 9:37 am

      awesome….

    • Harriet Meadow

      July 22, 2014 at 9:30 am

      I don’t know, I’ve seen CPS get involved in some pretty tame situations. One of them involved my sister, who was trying to control her elementary-aged son – who is pretty big – while he had a massive, awful tantrum in an office building. It wasn’t working, so she ended up having to drag him out to the car because she can’t carry him. She did not hit him, she did not call him nasty names, she just dragged him out to the car. She ended having a home visit and official investigation and everything. I’m not saying the dad from this story isn’t possibly lying, but I am saying that sometimes CPS gets involved for things that aren’t necessarily all that serious.

    • JenH1986

      July 22, 2014 at 9:39 am

      I can see how someone seeing a woman dragging a kid to a car with no context could seem bad. But I’ve called CPS because one of my clients had a split lip and broken nose sustained from a drunken father, and CPS did a home visit, investigated but because it was ONE incident it was dropped. It wasn’t one incident, but that’s all they could prove.

    • Eve Vawter

      July 22, 2014 at 8:43 am

      OR MAYBE BECAUSE YOUR OLDER BOY IS AN ASSHOLE. (Just kidding)

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 8:52 am

      That’s what I do. I raise assholes.
      Everybody’s good at something, right?!

    • Eve Vawter

      July 22, 2014 at 9:00 am

      I had a talk last week with my middle about his brother and I was all “Honey, I get it, sometimes your big brother acts like an asshole.. but we shouldn’t call him that..”

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 9:03 am

      That’s almost verbatim the conversation I had with Smalls. He’s a lot smaller than his brother and has a serious case of Little Man Syndrome.
      It’s not wrong that I was proud that he used the word correctly is it?!

    • Eve Vawter

      July 22, 2014 at 9:03 am

      NOPE. hahaha.

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 9:05 am

      I seriously had to send them OUT OF THE HOUSE so I could get past my uncontainable laughter.
      I was kinda proud of him standing up for himself. He’s come a long way.

    • Eve Vawter

      July 22, 2014 at 9:06 am

      What is the age difference?

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 9:09 am

      12 (5’3″ & 110 lbs) and 8 (4′ & 45 lbs). We adopted the little one from foster care when he was 5. Defending himself has been a long time coming.

    • Eve Vawter

      July 22, 2014 at 9:15 am

      4 years is just about the perfect age for some good ‘ol sibling rivalry I think, but when they are older they can bail each other out of jail and not bother you!

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 9:19 am

      I have high hopes of them being adults and being BFFs but your scenario is more likely. The older one is EXACTLY like me and I do enjoy drinking…

    • Justme

      July 22, 2014 at 9:05 am

      Nope. Absolutely not. One night, during out bedtime routine, I was walking out of my three-year-old’s bedroom with her in front of me. We walked down the hall and she went past her bathroom when I said, “nope, come back because you have to brush your teeth.” She sighed, dropped her shoulders and says, “dammit” with the most perfect inflection. I fought my giggles and asked her what she just said. “Nofing!” she replied with a big grin.

    • Eve Vawter

      July 22, 2014 at 9:07 am

      when my middle was little he used to say things like “Mom, may I please have some goddamn milk?”

    • Justme

      July 22, 2014 at 9:09 am

      When I was in elementary school, I remember my mom picking me up from school and while we were driving home, I told her about the bad words that Ricky B. had used on the playground. She asked me what kind of words he said and I replied, “he called me a motherfucker.” With all credit to my mother, she kept her eyes on the road and calmly replied, “maybe we don’t need to play with Ricky anymore.”

    • Eve Vawter

      July 22, 2014 at 9:14 am

      hahahga, no one needs to play with Ricky 🙁

    • Justme

      July 22, 2014 at 9:21 am

      I might have TP’d Ricky’s house on Halloween during our 5th grade year….

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 9:23 am

      I want to go TPing RIGHT NOW.

    • Eve Vawter

      July 22, 2014 at 9:44 am

      let’s do eeeeet!

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 12:51 pm

      Let’s go! After spending two hours at the dentist with the small boy I’M READY.

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 9:19 am

      Ricky sounds AWESOME!

      ETA: I’m afraid I’m raising a ‘Ricky’. *sigh*

    • Justme

      July 22, 2014 at 9:43 am

      If it helps, I saw Ricky at our ten year high school reunion and he seemed relatively normal….at least he wasn’t in jail like some of my classmates! 🙂

    • Old Lady Phillips

      July 22, 2014 at 10:04 am

      I feel like the “may I please” totally cancels out the “goddamn.”

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 9:10 am

      HAHAHA…I laughed out loud and got looks from the small people.

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 9:11 am

      It really doesn’t help my case that I have a mouth like that would make a sailor blush.

    • momjones

      July 22, 2014 at 11:23 am

      I will admit that I have said to both of the girls, “I know how you two are – you’re a bitch, and she’s an asshole…deal with it.” (I’ll let you guess who is who). And by the way, their brother is perfect 🙂

    • Pepper

      July 22, 2014 at 9:22 am

      My daughter dropped her juice this morning and yelled “God damn it!”. Which is exactly what my husband says when he drops things.
      We had a talk about not repeating half the things daddy says once I stopped laughing and could breathe again.

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 9:24 am

      My oldest boy dropped his favorite toy when he was two and said, “Shit. I dwopped it.” After I contained myself, we had a conversation. You’d think I’d be better with the younger ones but NO.

    • Pepper

      July 22, 2014 at 9:38 am

      She’s almost 8, and this was surprisingly the first time I’ve heard her swear, and we adopted her a year ago. I had to reassure her I wasn’t mad, and that I would probably say the same thing if I spilled oj all over my favorite Frozen shirt but, she was a little young to use that kind of language. Then we came up with a bunch of g-rated curse words. My favorite is “Floofle butt”.

    • Old Lady Phillips

      July 22, 2014 at 9:58 am

      “Viking ship show” is the main G-rated curse we use in our house, due to the fact that once when my son was three, he gestured to some cars blocking our driveway and tried to say that it was a “fucking shit show,” only it came out Viking ship show.

    • Rachel Sea

      July 22, 2014 at 1:46 pm

      Ours is “some on a bench,” my wife’s childhood misunderstanding of her grandfather’s favorite “sonofabitch.”

    • Shea

      July 23, 2014 at 11:16 am

      I have a friend who has a mouth like a sailor, but also comes up with some excellent G-rated curses. My favourite is “son of a motherless goat-dog on a stick”.

      He doesn’t have kids, but when he does, he’s going to be a great dad.

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 12:53 pm

      Nice job. I am absolutely sure that when they’re teenagers they will be cursing like sailors at each other. Pick your battles, right?

    • Pepper

      July 22, 2014 at 1:48 pm

      Considering she’s an only child (and will mostly likely stay that way) I hope she doesn’t start cussing at us. She did make my husband a list of “not bad words” to use instead of his standard “god damn it” “fuck” and “shit” in the car. It’s covered in glitter, like everything else in my house.

    • Azalea

      July 22, 2014 at 11:15 am

      I was sitting in a Starbucks once, and this little boy about 3 years old dropped his coat on the floor. As clear as you could imagine, he said “Shit!!” His mother, shocked, looked at him and said “We don’t use that language!” In an innocent voice, he said “But daddy says it.” The mother, at this point trying not to laugh, responds with “Well, Daddy shouldn’t say it, either.” I had a feeling Daddy was getting an earful when they got home.

    • Sri

      July 22, 2014 at 12:49 pm

      My (then) 3 year old nephew was absolutely convinced for about a year and a half that “goddamned shit” was the proper response to someone sneezing because he saw someone sneeze and hit their head and hurt themselves, causing them to shout said vulgarity. I tried so so hard not to laugh because I knew they were trying to get rid of this behavior, but I just couldn’t. Now he’s practically an adult, and he swears the least of anyone in our family, grandma included.

    • Shea

      July 23, 2014 at 11:14 am

      My father tells me that when I was just barely beginning to talk, he dropped something and, not realizing I had toddled up behind him, muttered “fuck it”. I chirpily yelled “Fuck it!” and then wandered off through the house repeating “fuck it fuck it fuck it fuck it…”

    • Old Lady Phillips

      July 22, 2014 at 9:53 am

      My bestie and I were at the playground with our kids a couple of weeks ago, and I was telling her a story, which included the word “shit.” We’re talking normal conversation volume, and one time only. But wouldn’t you know it, a sanctimommy-and-daddy couple came over and told me to watch my language “around the children,” even though their little blob was like a year old and obviously didn’t understand what I’d said, anyway. But, you know, I’m not an asshole, I apologized and thought that was it, but they kept throwing shade at us. Like, dirty looks and obviously discussing us after the fact. So on the way out, I asked Face if he wanted, just this once, to yell a bad word really loud. He was like, “REALLY, MOMMY?” and then basically whispered “stupid” and giggled his precious little butt off about it. I was like, “No, I want you to yell it. And not stupid, because Mommy really doesn’t like that word (#hypocrite)–I want you to yell the word ‘fuck.'” So, with wide eyes and a HUGE grin, he screamed “FUCKERRRRRRRS!” at the top of his lungs.
      And then we ran to the car. No regrets.

    • Jessie

      July 22, 2014 at 10:19 am

      OMG I AM DYING! This made me laugh so hard!!

    • guest

      July 22, 2014 at 12:38 pm

      That sounds like amazing parenting. My parents gave my brother and I free reign once to cuss at each other… I called him a stupid piece of crap and he told me I was a fucking piece of shit. Obviously learned at that point that I needed to step my game up.

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 12:49 pm

      Bahahahahaha…that made me laugh so hard. Way to go, Mom.

  3. Ursi

    July 22, 2014 at 8:21 am

    I’m very much against spanking.

    This makes me wonder, though, IS belting illegal? How do states even determine whether force is excessive? Are people allowed to use paddles or other instruments? How do they determine that?

    I was belted. Don’t belt your kids. Even if it doesn’t leave a mark on the skin, I promise, you, it leaves a mark.

    • JenH1986

      July 22, 2014 at 8:22 am

      In KY belting is legal. No lumps/welts/bruises.

    • 2Well

      July 22, 2014 at 9:13 am

      Which part of KY are you from?

    • JenH1986

      July 22, 2014 at 9:14 am

      Northern Kentucky. Just across from Cincinnati.

    • 2Well

      July 22, 2014 at 9:37 am

      Cincinnati practically is Kentucky.

    • JenH1986

      July 22, 2014 at 9:40 am

      HA HA…that depends on who you talk to and what part of Cincinnati or KY they live in.

    • 2Well

      July 22, 2014 at 9:47 am

      All my NKy friends considered it ours, similarly to how Louisville wants to be in Indiana.

      Plus we have its airport. My civil procedure professor gave us a hypothetical that involved getting sued at the Cincinnati airport, but I had to be that person to complicate things by telling him the Cincinnati airport wasn’t in Cincinnati or even Ohio.

    • JenH1986

      July 22, 2014 at 11:29 am

      That seriously messes with everyone. Even worse the damn airport is CVG…but it’s not in Covington either! I recently read a book where someone was at the airport but saw a building collapse in Cincinnati. I was like BULLSHIT!

    • TheGiantPeach

      July 22, 2014 at 12:36 pm

      Here in Eastern Kentucky we say NKY is practically Cincinnati!

    • JenH1986

      July 22, 2014 at 12:40 pm

      I spent a lot of time in W. Ky. and eventually I just agreed that N. Ky was Cincinnati because trying to explain where the hell Covington was (not where I grew up nor live now, but lived at the time) was too much work.

    • WhoremonalCrazyLotusBitch

      July 22, 2014 at 9:06 am

      So sorry, Ursi. Children don’t deserve this.

    • Rachel Sea

      July 22, 2014 at 1:41 pm

      In some states it’s legal to hit with an object as long as you don’t leave a physical mark, which means the easier your kid bruises the less you get to hurt them.

  4. Justme

    July 22, 2014 at 8:38 am

    Kids model the behaviors they see in their home, so most likely the kid cursed at an adult because he witnesses his father curse on a regular basis, not because he was spanked. Studies have shown children who are spanked are more aggressive, but I would believe the language comes directly from seeing how those words are used by an adult in his life.

    There are plenty of kids who curse who were never spanked….myself being one of them. My mother got a lovely phone call home when I was in kindergarten because I was cursing in class. Was I a child who was spanked? Nope. I had two middle/high school brothers who were modeling use of this kind of language for me.

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 9:00 am

      YES.
      That’s exactly why I cursed when I was in high school. My older brother and his buddies. I wanted to be cool like them. 😉

    • JenH1986

      July 22, 2014 at 9:18 am

      I cuss like a damn sailor. I would never spank my kids for swearing for that reason. And we would be having a strong discussion about cursing AT people if they cursed at someone at a party.

    • NorthernGirl

      July 22, 2014 at 9:24 am

      This. We swear a ton, but the kids know that it’s not appropriate for them to say and they don’t. And if they did, we’d talk to them about the time and place for words like that. I wouldn’t hit them for swearing.

      We only had to have the talk once. My girl was 3 and playing a video game and died and her response was “fuck it Christ!” WTF? I never used that one. So we talked about it and she’s never said it again. And I deserve a medal for keeping a straight face during that conversation.

  5. Frannie

    July 22, 2014 at 8:49 am

    I was spanked as a kid, and I did NOT turn out just fine. I’m 33 and I still resent my parents for it. They did us a great disservice by not teaching us how to deal with our anger appropriately. All spanking did was teach us that when you’re mad, you react violently towards the person you’re mad at. Thankfully, this is not a lesson I will ever teach my own kids.

    • Eve Vawter

      July 22, 2014 at 8:49 am

      I’m so sorry 🙁

    • Frannie

      July 22, 2014 at 8:56 am

      Don’t be. You’re one of the good ones. I appreciate these anti-spanking posts. I always wondered who these people were who said they turned out great and will do it to their own kids. I can only guess their parents’ idea of spanking was a lot gentler than my own parents’ methods.

    • guest

      July 22, 2014 at 12:34 pm

      This. I have to say my mom spanked me once and I was more offended by the fact that she was punishing me (for something I didn’t do) because it didn’t hurt. My dad’s HURT immensely and there was a lot of psychological trauma associated with it. If I grew up with my mom spanking I’m sure I would have said it was fine but that was merely a swat on the butt and very different from how other people do it.

    • Frannie

      July 22, 2014 at 12:48 pm

      Yep, I know what you mean. My dad used a leather belt to hit us- he called it “the strap.” Maybe if he’d used his hand it wouldn’t have been as horrible, but that leather belt was agony. My stepmom never spanked us, but she would slap us across the face, push us down stairs, etc. I don’t consider that spanking, I consider that straight up child abuse, but at the same time I don’t know where the line between punishment ends and abuse begins. It’s pretty much all abuse to me, but I know many would disagree. I will say, though, that it’s been a lot easier to forgive my dad than my stepmom, but that could have just as much to do with the fact that he’s blood as it does with his punishments being more humane.

    • guest

      July 22, 2014 at 3:29 pm

      Yeah, I’ve told this story here before I think, but we came home once and my dad said he had been trying a ping pong paddle and his hand on his own leg to see which hurt worse. He decided his hand (thankfully) but I just never understood why he was trying to inflict as much pain as possible on his children. And usually when we got spankings or whatever it was all three of us at once and because he didn’t think the house as a whole was clean enough which was not specific enough for us to avoid and not something we as children were in charge of. Getting whacked certainly didn’t make me a cleaner person if that is what he was after.

    • Frannie

      July 22, 2014 at 3:43 pm

      That’s horrible! I think a lot of it is largely generational. My dad told me when he was kid his own father used to stick pins underneath my dad’s fingernails as punishment. Often when he was really bad his parents would pack his clothes in a suitcase and leave him at an orphanage door and drive away. I guess if that’s all true we got off relatively easy in comparison, but it would have been really nice if he’d decided “how about I not do terrible things to my own kids.” For the record, he still is upset by the way he was treated as a child, too, and he’s in his late 60’s now.

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    • Spongeworthy

      July 22, 2014 at 9:51 am

      I really agree with you. I had a (thankfully distant) relative once talk about how he had to spank his kid more than once because the kid hit his younger brother. So, you’re going to teach your kid to not hit people by…hitting him? How the hell does that even work?

  6. Eve Vawter

    July 22, 2014 at 9:03 am

    hahahah nice try moving box spammer

  7. WhoremonalCrazyLotusBitch

    July 22, 2014 at 9:05 am

    RRT!
    Although my husband did it once out of frustration in front of our, then, 2 year old son, as a rule, we don’t swear in front of — or within earshot — of children. We also live in an urban environment where not everyone is as diligent as we are. It’s a frustration, but we do our best. Teaching them that there are words that are acceptable for adults to use that just aren’t acceptable for children. This is usually enough, but….

    Our son, now 8, is unapologetically in LOOOOVVEE with swear words. He doesn’t say them (in front of us), but he loves them and constantly asks to say them. “Can I say the ‘s’ word?”, or “I think the ‘F’ word is the best one.” or “If I fall off my bike and reeeeaaaallly hurt my knee, can I say ‘Daaaaaa….m…..iiiiit?'” Yeah. No. Kids will embarrass the crap out of you and make you look like a completely horrible parent even when you are trying your hardest to be a good one.

    That being said, striking a child is counterproductive (in my opinion) and humiliating. I have known countless people who say they were spanked/”whooped” as children and they’re just fine! WRONG: Most of them use physical expressions of anger because they were never afforded the coping skills to manage their emotions in a healthy way.

    • Justme

      July 22, 2014 at 9:07 am

      Yes, most kids have been taught that these words are “off limits” which make them THAT much more enticing.

    • WhoremonalCrazyLotusBitch

      July 22, 2014 at 9:10 am

      I don’t think we ever tell them that the words are “off limits” for that reason, more like “Not yet, kiddo.” Not making it a big deal out of it seems to be working for the most part…at least he asks? :}

    • Old Lady Phillips

      July 22, 2014 at 10:02 am

      Growing up, I was allowed to drop the occasional, situationally-appropriate “shit” or “dammit.” My parents didn’t make a big deal about it. But God forbid if I ever said “stupid,” “shut-up,” “ugly” or “hate.” And you know what, I am using the same rule in my house. I feel like telling someone to shut up is a lot ruder than dropping something and saying “shit.”

    • WhoremonalCrazyLotusBitch

      July 22, 2014 at 10:55 am

      OMG, we must have been raised by the same people! I literally could have written your comment verbatim. Like I say, we are big on trying to use expressive language without swearing, but we don’t strike our kids for the occasional “Ow my damn toe!”.

    • Rachel Sea

      July 22, 2014 at 1:44 pm

      My friend just married a woman like that. Her and her friends all smack their kids because they were hit and turned out “fine,” but given the amount of meth-mouth in her friends group, I can pretty safely say that absolutely none of them are fine.

    • WhoremonalCrazyLotusBitch

      July 22, 2014 at 6:07 pm

      oooo I love your tea cup!

      Yeah, beating kids… not so much effective as a deterrent for bad behavior. Eeewwwww… meth-mouth. *shiver*

    • Rachel Sea

      July 23, 2014 at 3:37 am

      It’s my favorite pattern, Royal Albert’s Forget-me-not.

      I have been to exactly one social gathering with them, because I wanted to be supportive to my friend, but that was enough. I couldn’t even bring myself to go to the wedding, I was too afraid I’d say something I meant.

    • WhoremonalCrazyLotusBitch

      July 23, 2014 at 6:32 am

      I totally feel ya, Rachel…and you know that at some point in a social gathering someone is going to cross your line and that’ll be that.

  8. 2Well

    July 22, 2014 at 9:26 am

    Apparently I said my first curse word at three years old.

    Cursing was pretty much my first step toward independence, long before I broke my church’s alcohol stance or purity stance or modesty stance. I had always been taught certain words were WRONG WRONG WRONG. No reason, just that they were “bad words.” I could have understood taking the Lord’s name in vain, but I never understood why ass was so terrible.

    I was away on a band trip at 14 and was having trouble with my music stand. I said “dammit.” At that moment, I was free. Nobody heard it, but there was such a high in breaking that one little rule. The world didn’t end, lightning didn’t strike me down, and I eventually learned my time was better served looking up these words rather than begging forgiveness from God for saying them.

    Then I started to question “no alcohol” and why that was the first promise you made when becoming a member of the church (even before mentioning Jesus.) I questioned whether Biblical wine really was just grape juice (nope!)

    Then I started loosening my physical boundaries a bit. I learned I didn’t have to hide my body to respect it. Eventually, I questioned the church’s views on homosexuality and interracial marriage (though I had always thought the latter b.s.) I learned compassion for women who had abortions.

    I became a better, more open minded person because the word dammit set me free.

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 9:28 am

      I could have written this. That’s what happened to me and I’m forever thankful.

    • Rachel Sea

      July 22, 2014 at 1:39 pm

      I was 14 years old before anyone told me that ass is a swear word. I still don’t believe it.

    • Obladi Oblada

      July 22, 2014 at 1:44 pm

      Anything can be a swear word if you do it right. 😉

  9. allisonjayne

    July 22, 2014 at 9:28 am

    I started swearing when I was 8. The boy I had a crush on had older brothers, so he swore a lot, and I thought if I started swearing, it would make him like me. 8 year old logic.

    I knew enough not to do it around my parents though. But I do remember getting in trouble once for saying ‘hell’ around them, but I was so confused because I actually didn’t know hell was a swear word.

  10. Stacy Shain

    July 22, 2014 at 9:31 am

    You can’t hit other people, but you are allowed to hit someone who is a child who is smaller then you, trusts you, and needs you to teach them love and how to act like a decent human being. The logic makes NO sense. you are not allowed to even hit animals, but a small child who cant defend themselves….WTFFFFFFF. you want to teach them how to act when they grow up, you cant hit people, so wtf is spanking going to teach them, if they hit someone they get in trouble, so it makes no sense. Didn’t these people ever hear of pick on someone your own size!

    • kiki

      July 22, 2014 at 12:03 pm

      This is where I’ve gotten hung up as I’ve gotten older…and after having become a parent, I really can’t imagine ever physically hurting my child. When I was spanked as a child, my mother was already so mad that I really didn’t need anything else to drive it home. All it really did for me was make me want to be bigger so they wouldn’t feel like it was safe to hit me, and I really, REALLY don’t want my daughter to ever feel that way about me.

  11. K2

    July 22, 2014 at 9:32 am

    I would never ever use a belt on a kid. I find that a terrible thing to do, and I’m not an anti-spanker at all. (I’m not particularly ‘pro spanking’ either, I’m neutral, if one can be that..) Oh, and if he hit the kid once at the party, and then again back home, that’s also a no-no for me. How many times can you freaking punish someone?
    Also, did the kid know the word was a swear one? I know kids aren’t as naive as I maybe was, but I’m sure SOME kids still don’t know the exact meaning of words. Even if he did, belting the kid over numerous parts of the body helps how, exactly?? Urgh.

  12. Old Lady Phillips

    July 22, 2014 at 10:22 am

    “…the few times I lost my temper and smacked my kids on their behinds only resulted in me feeling like a monster and having a whole lot of guilt over the situation.”
    This.
    I’ve given Face a whack on the butt a few times, maybe 6 or 7 total (I had a breakdown over it literally in the comment thread of another Mommyish spanking article a couple of months ago)–but it’s never been a “parenting tactic” for me. I never did it because I thought it would teach him something, or thought that he would somehow benefit from it. It was pure reaction, a result of losing my temper. I don’t know if that’s better or worse, but I certainly wouldn’t try to justify it by saying “I got spanked and I turned out fine.” I did get spanked, I don’t feel like the spanking in and of itself did any long-term damage to me, but that still doesn’t make it ok. I’ve made a promise to myself and to Face that I will never spank him again, because I don’t want him to think hitting is okay.
    Kids swear because they hear adults swearing. If you swear in front of your kid, and then expect he or she to never swear, that’s kind of silly. Yes, sometimes kids are just plain fresh, but more often, they misbehave because they’re trying to get attention any way they can, or they’re emulating someone else’s negative behavior.

  13. pixie Ninja Tits

    July 22, 2014 at 10:43 am

    I wasn’t spanked and my parents never used aggression towards me. My dad is a pretty frightening person when he’s angry, but he’s has never been and never would be violent towards anyone he cared about. Just having him or my mom raise their voices at me (not even to a yell) was the worst I ever got, with the occasional time out if I was really bad. My boyfriend was raised differently. I’m pretty certain he was spanked, but I know for sure his parents (a lot of his family, actually) subscribes to the “you have to teach them who’s boss” tactic. He had his mom sit on him and throttle him while screaming in his face about “lying” that he didn’t have homework and then “mouthing off about it” when he was 10. All he did was tell his mom he didn’t have homework, because he forgot about it, and went up to his room to quietly read. When his mom went through his backpack shortly after, found his homework, and confronted him, he just told her “I’m sorry, I forgot”. My boyfriend holds a lot of resentment about that and how his mom will bring it up and brag about it.

    Also, a couple weeks ago I was going for a walk through the park near my house. A bunch of houses back onto the park and a lot of them have only small chain-link fences so you can see into the back yards. There was a family in one, I guess getting ready to go for a swim in their pool, and the mom and someone else were moving a bin. A little boy, between age 3-5, was trying to help, but his mom harshly told him to move. Understandably, he started crying a bit, and moved away. The little boy must not have moved far enough out of the way for his mom’s liking (he wasn’t near the pool edge, either, just to be clear; there were things between him and the pool) and she screamed at him “Are you FUCKING kidding me??!?” And smacked the little boy in the arm really hard. I felt so bad for the little boy and my heart broke when he let out this awful wail and ran away crying to hide around the corner of the house. Of course I have no idea if he was being bad before this incident, which could have made his mom grumpy with him (and the reason behind the grumpy “move”), but what I saw made me so upset for the little boy.

    • kiki

      July 22, 2014 at 11:58 am

      Who the hell throttles a 10 year old and then brags about it (ever, never mind still doing it when they’re an adult)?? That’s awful, and I’m sorry for your boyfriend.

      Also, while I’m getting more and more of an appreciation of how challenging toddlers can be as my daughter gets older, I really can’t see any amount of misbehaving warranting violence. You pick them up and take them inside, calmly, and explain that they’re not going swimming because they aren’t listening. If you can’t do that, you calmly carry them inside, put them in a safe place, and take a time out yourself.

    • pixie Ninja Tits

      July 22, 2014 at 12:06 pm

      Yeah, I have no idea. I’m forever grateful that my boyfriend is NOT like his parents (they’re not the worst people in the world, just have done some questionable things).

      And I agree. I don’t have kids myself, but I help teach 4-6 year olds in martial arts. There are times when they are being insufferable, but even at their most annoying would I ever think to smack them. I have sat a couple of them down before and told them the importance of respect in terms they could understand (hell, I had to give a class of 15 7-10 year olds a lecture on respect one week when I was leading the class, but I kept my cool). The one or two occasions where I felt I was about to lose my cool, I walked away and got a drink of water before helping another pair of kids who were being more well-behaved at that time. I know it will be different when/if I have my own kids, but I really hope I’ll be able to keep my cool and remove myself from the situation if I get too angry.

    • kiki

      July 22, 2014 at 12:37 pm

      I had a friend who, as an adult, broke his thumb. His mother didn’t like something he said, and pushed on it until he was on his knees and almost crying. Otherwise, she had some very nice moments, but I avoided her after that. He loved her very much, but I was… disturbed for him. Some people turn out well in spite of their parents.

      It sounds like you have pretty good practice for controlling your temper, and that’s really what it’s about. It’s OK to leave the kiddo in a safe place (crib, room, etc) and walk away for a minute.

    • guest

      July 22, 2014 at 12:45 pm

      Wtf? As an adult? I would have punched her in the face. That is beyond messed up. If you went up to some stranger in Target and bent and broke their thumb your ass would be grass.

    • pixie Ninja Tits

      July 22, 2014 at 12:51 pm

      Oh wow, yeah, I don’t blame you for being disturbed and avoiding her! Even if she was otherwise a nice person. And I’m pretty sure it’s my boyfriend’s mission to not turn out like his parents.

  14. rachel

    July 22, 2014 at 11:51 am

    For me, spanking is a tough topic. I say I was spanked, but in reality, I was hit, hard, many times on the head. I am still recovering from that abuse and have been in therapy since I was a teen. My father would say he “spanked” me, but it was abuse, as clear as day. I feel that there are very few parents who can not step over the fine line that goes from spanking to abuse, especially when it is done in a moment of anger.

  15. Ashie

    July 22, 2014 at 12:16 pm

    I hate spanking. I was spanked as a child, and it was horrible. My dad would use a wooden spoon. I would see him go to the kitchen and I would run and lock myself in the bathroom. It is not okay to be afraid of your parents like that. Spanking really confuses me because it really isn’t a punishment that fits the crime. Like, I spilled a glass a milk, and get spanked, but dont have to clean up the milk. Doesn’t really make any sense. It seems odd that this father would spank his child 2 times for the same “bad thing” he did.

    • guest

      July 22, 2014 at 12:46 pm

      I don’t even understand why you would spank someone for spilling milk… like as an adult does someone come beat you up if you drop a drink? And as an adult, quite frankly you should be a little more coordinated than a child.

    • Allen

      July 22, 2014 at 3:36 pm

      I don’t get punishing children for accidents in general. Accidents happen, and like you say, kids aren’t as coordinated as most adults (and they have smaller hands). Maybe if the kid was being reckless or careless, grounding them is warranted. But the thing about accidents is that they have built in consequences–you have to clean up the mess or deal with the damage that was caused. When people punish their kids for honest mistakes (especially harmless ones like spilled milk) instead of using it as a learning experience, it seems like they’re just control freaks who can’t deal with their kids being less than perfect.

  16. guest

    July 22, 2014 at 12:30 pm

    I saw this quote the other day that summed it up nicely:
    “Discipline is helping a child solve a problem. Punishment is making a child suffer for having a problem. To raise problem solvers, focus on solutions not retribution.- L.R. Knost”

  17. Ana

    July 22, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    I thought my husband was joking when he suggested we start spanking our 2 year old the other day, but when he said it again later I was shocked to realize that he might be serious. He is a very gentle and loving father, but because it happened to him he thinks it’s okay. I let him know in no uncertain terms that this was not an option and that we would find other ways of disciplining her.

    I think if the dad in this story hit the kid at the party and then again when they got home he must have some rage issues. The ride home should have been a time to cool off and talk about appropriate behavior, not get so worked up about it that he reaches for a belt.

  18. tk88

    July 22, 2014 at 9:12 pm

    Um..why was the father up for neglect and not physical abuse? Regardless if it was “reasonable” or not, I don’t understand this. How on earth is hitting a child neglect? Someone screwed up the paperwork.

  19. Wholockkie Head

    July 22, 2014 at 10:48 pm

    I’ve only even been given a quick swat on the butt when I was doing something dangerous. It was a bit of a shock and it really made me realize something was wrong. After, my mom would make sure to tell me what I had been doing was really dangerous and why she had “spanked” me.

    I harbor no ill will towards her for that, but that’s what worked for me. I was always more upset when I had disappointed my parents. I almost never got spanked, so the very few times I did (again, not hard, just a swat) I never did what I had been doing again.

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