Anti-Vaxxers Are Now Wary Of Vitamins, Proving There Is No End To Their Idiocy

infant-shotsAnti-vaxxers, not content with the devastating results of bringing back diseases that have long been eradicated and are preventable by routine vaccinations, have set their sights on a new target – vitamins. It seems that the same parents who are refusing to vaccinate their children against disease, are also turning down a shot of vitamin K, routinely given to infants since the 1960′s.

According to The Tennessean, seven infants between the ages of 7 weeks and 20 weeks have been diagnosed with vitamin K deficiency bleeding (or VKDB) in the past eight months at Monroe Carell Jr. Children’s Hospital at Vanderbilt. The cases have alarmed doctors enough that they are calling for a national tracking system. The disorder usually affects fewer than 1 in 100,000 infants, but doctors at the hospital believe that cases are on the rise because of the anti-vaccine movement:

“There is no tracking of this in the U.S., unfortunately, and cases are rarely reported,” said Dr. Robert Sidonio Jr. with the Vanderbilt hospital. “We are probably just seeing the tip of the iceberg, and I worry that people are missing these cases often and not considering this diagnosis when presented with a sick infant.”

The primary role of vitamin K in the human body is blood clotting:

Without supplementation, newborns are at risk for a potentially devastating condition known as vitamin K-deficient bleeding (VKDB), formerly known as hemorrhagic disease of the newborn. VKDB is a better designation because life-threatening bleeds can occur as late as 3 months of age, particularly in breastfed babies who did not receive an intramuscular dose of vitamin K on the first day of life. Most bleeding occurs during the first week, however.

Mark and Melissa Knotowicz decided against the shots for their twins, who were born last summer. They had heard that a preservative in the shot could cause childhood leukemia. An old study drew a correlation between the preservative and leukemia, but follow up studies have disproved the theory. When one of their infants became sick, they took him to the doctor, where they uncovered that they had refused the shot. This information prompted the doctor to do CT scans which showed the baby had multiple brain bleeds. He spent a week in the hospital, is undergoing physical therapy for neuromuscular development issues, and doctors don’t know yet “whether he will suffer problems with intellectual development.”

Why are some parents like these refusing to get the shot? From Mother Jones:

“Reasons included concern about an increased risk for leukemia when vitamin K is administered, an impression that the injection was unnecessary, and a desire to minimize the newborn’s exposure to ‘toxins,’” observes a CDC report. These concerns are scientifically questionable at best. “Earlier concern regarding a possible causal association between parenteral [injected] vitamin K and childhood cancer has not been substantiated,” states the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Sound vaguely familiar? A study freaks parents out, is disproved, and the effects of the faulty study continue to make parents afraid of medicine. It’s absolutely terrifying how quickly misinformation can spread.

My midwives absolutely told me to question the Vitamin K shot. They were homebirthing midwives and were definitely on the “more natural” side of things. When “natural” starts to equal “against science” I become worried. The shot is even more necessary for women who breastfeed exclusively, as breastfed babies tend to be vitamin K deficient. A Slate article on the subject points out, “the shot is even more necessary for women who want to breast-feed exclusively, which is darkly ironic, considering how breast-feeding has been elevated to a near-religious status in the same circles that tend to be hostile to vaccinations and now the vitamin K shot.”

The same articles author, Amanda Marcotte, points out “The anti-vaccination movement has morphed into an anti-shot movement, and it’s children who are paying the price.”

(photo: buffaloboy2513/ Shutterstock)

You can reach this post's author, Maria Guido, on twitter.
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    • CMJ
      • Amber Starr

        Ya know, this news had me furious. I was searching to something to truly put to words how I feel about these whackjobs…. I no longer have to search. You nailed it :)

    • Rachel Sea

      We are going to ignorant ourselves into relieving population pressure by accidentally killing off babies.

      • https://twitter.com/perfctlyflawd1 JenH1986

        I’m beginning to question if it’s really accidental anymore.

      • Heather

        This makes me think deep theoretical thinks… Is it natural selection that’s causing this? Should we allow the offspring of the morons to suffer in order to allow the population to stop growing exponentially? Should we just screen people before they get pregnant to see if they believe in vaccinations and medicine and sterilize the ones who don’t so that there never will be offspring who need to suffer? hmmmm

      • itpainsme2say

        This was legit my first thought and I think that and the supposed increase of child free and gay couples is our black plague. Not that I’m comparing being gay or child free to having the plague just that maybe its an evolutionary fall back

      • 2Well

        Somebody on another forum called me disgusting for thinking gay people could be good parents. Somehow it insulted straight parents. Babies apparently need to be raised by the mother and father who made them because that is who will love them best.

        I think children murdered by their straight mommy and daddy who made them through natural sex would prefer being raised by two women.

        I brought up your exact point, but there are people who think overpopulation could never happen because “God gives us all we need.” Ever think God is making gay and childfree people and birth control to prevent overpopulation in this wonderful world where more children survive past 5 years old?

      • itpainsme2say

        Thank you for getting what I was saying because that could have gone bad. If you think about its the perfect way to both reduce the population and raise adoption rates which i feel like giving more children happy homes, something I think god would be all for.

      • 2Well

        Exactly. If you believe people are born the way they are, it has to be genetic in some fashion. An increase in that gene could be nature’s way of slowing us down. We can keep people alive better now. We have IVF for those with fertility difficulties. We have to have ways to slow down population growth before we have real life Soylent Green.

    • Spongeworthy

      I just can’t anymore with this shit. And STOP SAYING “TOXINS”!!!!!
      http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-So90hh8qbJk/UhnJI9nFAoI/AAAAAAAAAfo/qJ9bE443Vpo/s640/507bdcebafa96f0d48003864.gif

      ETA I’m not yelling at you Maria. I’m just yelling!!

      • http://facebook.com/guineverew Guinevere

        because, hygience

      • Spongeworthy

        BOOM, conversation over!

      • Kristina Bartlett

        my roomate’s mother makes $81 every hour on the

        computer . She has been without work for 6 months but last month her income was

        $19151 just working on the computer for a few hours. read review http://WWW.WORKBUCK.COM

      • keelhaulrose

        My college neighbor made $100 an hour being a prostitute, and she didn’t have to spam people on the internet to do it.
        She was much less annoying than you, even with the johns honking in the driveway two in the morning.

      • http://batman-news.com Greta Young

        $100/hr? Man, the recession hit college hooking hard, apparently. ;-)

      • guest

        That’s more than a few hours. It’s like 236 hours a month.

      • Amber Starr

        Wait, I could make $19151 just working on the computer for a few hours??!! And here I have been trying to support my family by giving five dollar handies out behind the Taco Bell.

        Time for a career change!!! What was that (TOTES VIRUS FREE AND NOT A SCAM AT ALL NOPE NOPE NOPE) website again???

      • lijepa1979

        Am I the only one who keeps seeing that spam site comment and thinks it actually says “pay crap?”

      • K.

        My two favorite antivax buzzwords:

        “toxins” and “chemicals”

        They’re like beacons for ignorance.

      • momma425

        If you really want to blow their mind, ask what specific toxins they are worried about.
        “Cancer causing toxins.”
        “Oh, I see. And what are the names of the toxins that cause cancer?”
        …….

      • AugustW

        carcinogens? Do I get a cookie? :D

      • Shea

        Not unless you can name the carcinogens! Then, you get a vegan, gluten-free, GMO-free, fair-trade-carob-chip cookie sweetened with agave nectar.

      • lijepa1979

        mmmmmmm…cookie

      • mblackm2

        But..it still has CHEMICALS……

      • Amber Starr

        Uh, like they need to know SPECIFICS… Duh, the answer is ALL THE CHEMICALS.

      • rockmonster

        DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE KILLS!

      • Amber Starr

        BAN ALL THE STUFF WITH BIG WORDS FOR NAMES!!!!!!

      • mblackm2

        Absolutely! it’s in all cancerous tumors! and hundreds of people die from inhaling it every year! And it’s the main ingredient in acid rain, and 100% of all criminals have used Dihydrogen monoxide! Wonder what the antivax/vitamins crowd think about the widespread addiction to H20??

      • Spongeworthy

        Yep. It’s like shorthand for quackery.

      • Darcy Hudjik

        Don’t forget “package insert”, as in have you read it.

      • rockmonster

        @K. I hate “chemical” because my high school chemistry course taught me that everything ever is chemicals. If it’s not a chemical then it doesn’t exist.

      • Ana

        Ha! This is the perfect graphic for this topic!

      • Amber Starr

        I kinda love you right now.

    • https://twitter.com/perfctlyflawd1 JenH1986

      I’ve said 98978q394857293847502987029834 times on medical articles. If a doctor, a person with a medical degree and likely YEARS of experience recommends something, it should be considered. If this particular route of treatment is one you don’t like/have concerns about then seek out a second (or third) opinion. If doctors are so stupid WHY are you using them. This is not fucking rocket science.

      • Alene

        I do not get this either. I feel the same way about SuperCrunchers who give birth in hospitals but then refuse EVERYTHING (no drugs, no vaccines, no blood work, no screening tests, no eye gel, you get it). If all of this stuff is so awful, why are you even here? You are certainly allowed to have preferences, but you have to realize that that stuff is kind of expected, and you better have a damn good reason for refusing other than “it’s more natural this way.” Please let us all stop equating “most natural” with “safest.”

      • http://batman-news.com Greta Young

        Though I’m a far cry from the SuperCrunchers you’re referring to, I did have a natural/unmedicated hospital birth with CNMs. Why was I there? I didn’t have an extra $6k lying around to hire a private midwife out of pocket, I wanted the security of being in the hospital setting in case of any emergencies, the support of skilled professionals who help women give birth for a living, and the fact that the hospital was a nearby in-network option with a reasonable copay.

        I declined a lot of the standard medical interventions (IVs, pitocin, epidural, etc) as well as the majority of the newborn procedures in the hospital — however, I did get most of them done during the 3 day newborn check-up at the pedi’s office. I think the only one we skipped entirely was the erthromycin eye ointment since I’d had a negative STD screen during my 3rd trimester and couldn’t find a reason why this is administered other than to prevent gonorrhea-induced newborn blindness after being transferred from mother to child via the birth canal. To this date, my daughter has recieved all of her scheduled vaccinations.

      • Kelly

        Then you obviously aren’t the type of person she’s referring to so why take it personally?

      • http://batman-news.com Greta Young

        My apologies; I didn’t mean to come off as “taking it personally.” Just trying to share some of the reasons why individuals who would be opposed to the routine standard of care might still find themselves delivering in a hospital setting, since she’d asked.

      • Fondue

        FWIW, I didn’t think you came off as taking it personally. Alene asked a question, and you gave an answer based on your personal experience. *shrug*

      • Kelly

        But you aren’t one of the people she’s talking about so you can’t answer the question effectively.

      • Kelly

        Exactly! That’s what irritates me so much. My parents are the type of morons who will go on and on about how evil doctors are and how they want to make their patients sick to clean out their bank accounts… and then they’ll tell you about how they went to the doctor last week.

        WTF?! If I really thought doctors were like that, they’re the last damn people I would go see or take my children to for medical help. Deep down, these people know they’re full of shit if they continue to go to the doctor. If they actually believed their idiotic babble, they’d never go.

      • Iwill Findu

        But then we wouldn’t be able to whine about doctor shortages, because if they stopped going to the doctors there might be enough to go around without having to wait 2 hrs at the clinic with all their unvaxed germbags. Heck I’d even keep the 2 hr wait if it meant no more unvaxed germbags.

      • rockmonster

        These people need a heavy dose of Tim Minchin.

    • natalie

      “toxins” also know as “the things your liver is designed to filter and make not toxins” also known as “no effect on your body”

    • falcongirl

      I’m pregnant and not sleeping well. My OB said I can take Unisom. I made the mistake of mentioning this to a friend who falls a little farther on the natural medicine side of the spectrum than I’m comfortable with and she practically accused my doctor of trying to poison me and the baby before she said, “Just take melatonin. It’s natural.” Except that my doctor specifically said not to take melatonin because it posed a risk to the baby. I think I’m going to need a nice long break before I tall to that particular friend again.

      • Spongeworthy

        Arsenic is natural too. Maybe you should try that next.

      • Rachel Sea

        And belladonna. If you make a tea from the leaves, you will never have to worry about sleeplessness again.

      • Spongeworthy

        True. And ricin comes from a plant, so I don’t see how it could be so bad.

      • http://facebook.com/guineverew Guinevere

        ricin comes from the same thing that we get the “labor inducing” castor oil from, I think?

      • Williwaw

        Don’t forget cobra venom! (All kidding aside, I hope you are able to sleep better soon. For me, sleeping horribly was one of the first things about being pregnant. I hope the Unisom helps.)

      • Rachel Sea

        Totally. Ricin is, like, purified castor seed extract, so people should just take that instead of castor oil, because oil is fattening.

      • shel

        That’s like the “if I can’t pronounce it, it doesn’t go in my body”
        I can pronounce arsenic… damnit!! Now I guess I have to take some… perhaps along with mercury, which I can also pronounce… plus it’s pretty to look at…

      • Mystik Spiral

        “Drano” really rolls off the tongue, too.

      • Spongeworthy

        Also lead. Mmmm, paint chips.

      • scooby23

        There’s some really hard to pronounce veggies and fruits. Better cut them outta my diet!

      • rockmonster

        “oar-ihnj” I’ve never heard of it. What is it? Is it caused by chemtrails?

      • scooby23

        Must be. Better start an internet protest against it and shame anyone who feeds their family it.

      • Kat

        That’s totally going to be some lady’s defense on “Snapped.” I gave my cheating SOB husband arsenic because it’s NATURAL!! How was I to know it could kill him?

      • Spongeworthy

        “I was just trying to follow a more wholesome, honest diet!!”

      • scooby23

        Urine is completely natural. Maybe we can make that into a nice little oil.

      • Kelly

        Yep, my son’s doctor cringes at the mention of the “Just take melatonin” idiots. Just because something is “natural” doesn’t mean it should be guzzled without a care and sure as hell doesn’t mean there won’t be any side effects. Melatonin is one she’s specifically complained about many times. People seem to just take it or give it to their kids with absolutely no thought as to how it might affect them or interact with other medications.

      • http://facebook.com/guineverew Guinevere

        My husband was like, “But I give it to the cats?”

      • Sup!

        But that’s different. You want the sneaky little buggers to sleep through the night (Cats, not kids)

      • Jem

        I know someone who buys big bulk bottles on Amazon to give to his kids without any consult with a doctor. I tried to tell him about how it builds up in your system and eventually you need more and more of it to work but he didn’t care. Didn’t have any concerns about side effects or mixing with other meds either. If you can buy it on Amazon, what is there to worry about, amirite?!

      • keelhaulrose

        When I mentioned to another autism mama that my little girl had problems getting to sleep and staying asleep some times she said “just give her melatonin, that’s what I do”. I asked what her pediatrician said about that, and she told me she didn’t talk to the doctor about it, just read somewhere it helps, and it’s natural, so don’t worry.
        I talked to pediatrician, who gave me several reasons why it wouldn’t be good to try it yet. Natural does not equal safe or “go ahead and prescribe yourself some”.

      • shel

        I do recommend Melatonin in my practice for certain patients, since it has shown some effectiveness, particularly in the autism type disorders who have sleep problems.
        But… the dosing and risks are certainly discussed, and the fact that it’s a supplement and not as heavily regulated.

      • Kelly

        My son’s doctor recommended it for him as well. I wasn’t talking about everyone who takes it, just the idiots who take it with no thought of what else it might do, as if it were the same as eating a carrot.

      • Music Mamma

        Poison ivy is natural, too.

      • KaeTay

        see I also point out that there are poisonous berries that are natural.. it doesn’t mean you should be putting it in your body to my friends. My rule of thumb is to practice everything with caution

      • Joy

        That makes me nervous, my OB said it was fine to continue taking melatonin during my pregnancy. Little man is 10 weeks old and seems fine but now I’m worried I’ve screwed him up in some way. What were the risks your doctor cited?

      • falcongirl

        She said it has been linked to developmental delays. The other thing she said is that because the supplement industry is unregulated, she was uncomfortable telling any of her patients to take something like melatonin because a couple recent studies have suggested that what is in the pill is not always the same as what is listed on the label, either the substance or the amount. She said that she is much more comfortable recommending Unisom or one Tylenol PM because the industry is well regulated and rigorous FDA testing has found them to be both safe and effective. But just like I trust my OB, you should trust yours. If you think he or she may have steered you wrong, you can ask him or her about it.

      • Joy

        I started digging immediately after reading your comment and it looks like any ill effects were tied to high doses and I only took 3 mg. Should be fine. He is hitting the first milestones early (holding head up, smiling, etc.) so I’m not worried so much now. Nothing I can do about it anyway at this point, so I might as well cross that bridge if and when we get to it. Thanks for responding so quick and helping put my mind at ease!

      • Dr. Apothecary

        I think I remember reading somewhere about it possibly affecting hormone levels, which is another reason it should be avoided during pregnancy. But I don’t think there was a huge amount of research or data to support that; it was mostly a hypothesis, if I remember correctly. I’d look it up again for you, but I don’t have access to the source I used now. If your MD said it was okay, I wouldn’t worry too much.

      • mediocrity511

        An important thing to remember is that sometimes medication does have increased risks, but the benefits outweigh those risks. Having a healthy, unstressed pregnant woman is good for her baby and if severe insomnia was causing you issues then it may have been healthier all round to treat it.

      • Guest

        what about serotonin? You could ask your doctor about that and if it’s safe for pregnant women.

      • K.

        I like thinking of these people as having “MDs in Google”. Here is a sampling of what I’ve learned:

        Coffee causes ADHD
        Soda causes ADHD
        Tea causes ADHD
        Yoga can influence a baby’s sex
        Non-organic food causes deformities

        And I’ve also learned that apparently, Google is just as good as medical school.

      • Youthier

        My coworker once freaked out another coworker who had an ulcer but was struggling to give up coffee because someone she knew had an ulcer that ended up turning into cancer and he died within 8 weeks (this is true as I knew him too but don’t ask me details – I’m not a doctor). I said, “Name one thing that won’t kill me. This week, a study came out saying tomatoes cause one type of cancer but two weeks ago, a study said they prevent another type of cancer. Something will kill me eventually so I’ll just do my best.”

        Later I was chastised for being too dark but ulcer coworker appreciated it.

      • K.

        Precisely.

        (my fave is “I don’t want CHEMICALS in my body” or “I don’t want anything UNNATURAL in my body.” The body IS “chemicals” and pure, natural water will kill you if you were to drink enough of it)

      • Kathryn Mackenzie

        That made me think of this.

      • 2Well

        That would be made so much better by calling it dihydrogen monoxide.

      • rockmonster

        Aw, nuts. You’ll find my H2O comment up the page.

      • Jennie Blair

        That’s always my personal defense of my choices (yay vaccines, boo pain meds (and personal experience, all make me I’ll and I have a super high pain threshold)) that I didn’t get my degree from google but a legit actual university

      • rockmonster

        Who needs a doctor? I’ve got WebMD.

      • 2Well

        I’m not pregnant, but I hate conventional sleeping drugs because they make me think slowly for most of the day. Since melatonin did nothing for me, my doctor recommended I try 5-HTP. I haven’t gotten any yet, but if Unisom sucks for you maybe try that.

      • falcongirl

        The 25 mg Unisom seems to work pretty well for me, but I’m not super sensitive to medications. Plus, I’ve got less than 7 weeks until my due date, and then I won’t be sleeping for totally different reasons.

      • CBillard

        Just because something is natural, doesn’t mean it’s safe. FFS.

      • guest

        I’m actually glad you mentioned that. I take melatonin gummies (because everything is better in gummy form) to sleep sometimes and I prob wouldn’t have thought about it if I were pregnant. I’m so reckless :-O

    • LadyClodia the Modest Rat

      *sigh* I seriously don’t understand people who would reject a vitamin K shot, this is
      http://38.media.tumblr.com/89ea33d64ac8c994d3e10a47b9e121fd/tumblr_n93rhre2b61rz9hl6o3_500.gif

      (My new favorite gif!)

    • LK

      You guys, I’m sure they all got this info from a *very* reliable internet chat forum.

    • Frannie

      My friend told me that if she ever has a baby she’s going to skip the Vitamin K shot for the exact same reason. I’m going to save this to share with her. I actually admit I was a little freaked out when she told me and debated not giving it to my son, but I never researched it either way and ended up letting him have it. I’m glad I did, and I’d totally forgotten about it until now, and plan on agreeing to it in 3 weeks when I have my next kid.

      • Sarah

        One of my Facebook friends mentioned this whole thing earlier today.
        She’s not going to get this shot for her baby, because of the toxins.
        I’ll link her this, see if I can’t change her mind. The kicker for me is that she’s a nurse. She has a degree and everything.

      • Frannie

        A month ago that would have struck me as odd, but I recently came across a local Catholic OBGYN practice (and I’m Catholic) that practices religious medicine and won’t prescribe birth control- even for reasons other than preventing pregnancy. So my belief that all medical professionals are pro-science has already been shattered. I even admit to buying into the vaccines cause autism hype for like 2 months before it was refuted. Thankfully that was before I had kids- and that just goes to show you how long this crap has been out there. My oldest is now 6.

      • Kelly

        So they think I should be in pain almost constantly… because “birth control BAD!” I’d really like one of those assholes to explain to me, to my face, why I need to be in constant pain to the point where I can’t hold a job or care for my family.

        I’ll give them a fucking cookie if they can manage to do it without sounding like an evil, heartless asshole who thinks I should just go off and die somewhere.

      • itpainsme2say

        Fight the good fight against ignorance about birth control

      • Frannie

        I’m not even sure what the point of having a religious medical practice is- it just seems like something you could do yourself at home using google. It doesn’t even seem like something you’d need a degree for. Their website actually recommends prayer for relief of endometriosis. What the actual fuck????

      • Williwaw

        Aah, so if I just change my entire belief system (I am nonreligious), my suffering will end!

      • Frannie

        There you go! All this time you thought you had legitimate pain, but really you just didn’t believe in Jesus right.

      • Shea

        I thought God wanted us wimmens to suffer because Eve fucked up that one time. I just assumed that the ridiculous menstrual pain I suffer when not on the Pill is just God’s punishment for being a daughter of Eve.

      • shel

        I hope they are at least up front about their practice idealogies… so normal people can choose someone else who will actually give scientific and appropriate medical advice/care.

        Or that they refer their patients to the some place who will. (We discussed in our ethics classes in med school – I went to that one, though I somehow missed conspiracy class- that a provider can refuse to perform certain things, like an abortion, but it is unethical to not refer your patient on to someone who can meet their medical needs.)

      • Sarah

        She might be the vaccines cause autism type, I’m not sure. I was actually diagnosed with autism (high-functioning), last year, and after I told her she never brought it up. Honestly, if we didn’t have roughly four states between us, I probably wouldn’t be friends with her.

      • Frannie

        My 6 year old daughter has high functioning autism, too- and I’d still vaccinate her 100% if I had it to do over again knowing what I know now. Did you have any trouble with speech or anything when you were younger? I’m sorry to pry- I am just curious as to what to expect for my daughter as she gets older. She is in speech therapy now, but is doing really well. She is performing at grade level and can even read now, but it’s been due to a lot of early intervention. I know everyone is different, but it would be awesome to hear from an adult with a similar diagnosis.

      • Sarah

        I did have some trouble with speech-mostly talking to people outside my family. My mom got a woman to help me, apparently. I had a lot of trouble socially though. Mainly talking to people, reading body language, and being able to talk about things that were on topic and such. I don’t remember that many specific things. I wasn’t diagnosed until I was 20. (The town I grew up in was very small and very close-minded. Not a lot of options for the “different” people.” If there’s anything I can help with, let me know!

        And don’t worry about prying, I’m glad to help!.

      • Frannie

        That sounds a lot like my daughter. We had her in a social skills group last year and it really helped her a lot. She still isn’t perfect with empathizing with others, but she’s made tremendous progress. Mostly her issues are that she fixates on topics and won’t let them go (like asking 100 times a day if she’s going to a playdate the next date, and then asking the same info about it over and over, as if she’s afraid we’ll forget). She also gets sentences scrambled a little, so she’ll say things out of order or use the wrong word. Her teacher told me this year that a student got hurt at recess and my daughter was trying to comfort her, but she wasn’t looking at her. She kind of had her arm around her friend’s shoulder and asked if she was okay, but my daughter was staring off into space and not focused on the injured friend. Sometimes when her little brother cries, my daughter laughs nervously or doesn’t really get what she’s supposed to do in that situation.

      • Sarah

        I understand completely. I still do the fixating on topics and repetition things, though not as often as I used to. Honestly one of the hardest parts for me was/is figuring out when it’s an appropriate time to act a certain way or say a certain thing. Reading the moment sort of thing, basically. Another big thing is remembering that not everybody processes their emotions the same way I do. Mostly emotional/social stuff. It sounds like you guys are doing really well though!

      • Frannie

        We’re getting there. My biggest fear is that she just plateau’s and this is as good as it’s going to get for her. She is heading into 1st grade, so it’s easy enough to be on target for her grade, but I’m worried about what happens when the lessons get tougher. Lately her obsession is with death. DH won her a goldfish at the fair and it died, and I thought I explained death to her really well, but now she constantly brings it up, asking if this animal dies or that animal dies, or if her other pets will die, and if they eat healthy food or “sick food” and if she eats sick food (a concept taught in her kindergarten) if she’ll die, and then she constantly asks if whatever she’s eating is sick food or healthy food, and she doesn’t get that she can eat cookies or junk food in moderation and it won’t harm her. It’s like we get stuck in a loop where the topic cannot be changed. Some of it is because she’s simply too young to understand the answer and so it’s just not a satisfactory answer, but the other part is that she is definitely fixated on it.

      • Sarah

        I don’t think I’ve ever gotten fixated on death. I’ll ask my mom when she gets home, she remembers things better than me.I have gotten stuck in the loop thing before. It’s takes a lot of time and effort to really get out of that habit, but I’m sure you’ll do it. I wish I had better advice to give, but all I can say right now is to just keep doing what you’re doing-working with her, encouraging her, etc.

      • Frannie

        The other thing she’s fixated on is her cousins. She asks tons of questions about them (she met them for the first time recently) and talks about them a lot. We have to say to her “okay no more talking about your cousins.” Sometimes she’ll tell us “Chocolate ice cream is my cousin Paul’s favorite ice cream” or something like that- that she totally made up about him. I get that she wants that connection so badly, but we’d much rather her talk about things that she actually knows about- like her day at school, or something that’s HER favorite, rather than make up a story about someone she barely knows to maintain a connection.

      • Williwaw

        May I ask what age your daughter started talking at? I too don’t mean to pry, but my 2 1/2 year old son was just diagnosed as autistic, and he currently has less than ten words (although he tests very well cognitively, apart from the language issues). He is about to start intensive therapy that will include speech therapy, and we are wondering what is ahead for us. Of course, I know every autistic child is different, but I still like to hear about how other kids are doing. We are hopeful that because our son is starting therapy at a very young age, he might be able to catch up on his language skills in a couple of years. I can’t wait till I can finally talk to him.

      • Frannie

        So, my daughter started saying single words right on schedule, probably around 9 or 10 months. She continued the single word communication until she had quite a large vocabulary, but she never strung two words together until we got her help. She was probably 3.5 before we actually were able to get her into a program (the specialists we saw said it wasn’t cause for concern) and she started making two plus word sentences. She never lost words or skills, but in hindsight (from testing my younger son with the MCHAT) I notice we missed a LOT of red flags. She never pointed or gestured, she never asked to be picked up, she was not affectionate, she didn’t make eye contact. I just chalked that up to her being a toddler (I was the youngest and did not grow up around any younger kids to recognize what was normal and what was problematic). Compared to my son who appears to not have autism at 20 months, it’s like night and day. You are so fortunate to be starting your son at 2.5. My daughter is now 6 and has made remarkable progress since starting intervention at 3.5, but if she had started that much earlier I think she’d be a lot better off right now.

      • Williwaw

        Thanks for the reply, I am glad to hear your daughter is doing well. We too missed some red flags (like not pointing or gesturing, not making eye contact, and not interacting with people unless he wants something from them) because we had never raised a kid before – it was really just the language delay that made us finally consult a doctor (and the first doctor we saw insisted our son was fine after about a four second evaluation – I am so glad we persisted and got a second opinion). I feel very grateful and lucky that we live in a time and place where our son can get intensive therapy from skilled and caring teachers.

      • Frannie

        That sounds so much like what happened to us! My husband actually took her on a playdate and came home and said to me “We need to take her to a doctor IMMEDIATELY” because once he saw how other kids conversed with their parents he realized there was a problem. I think part of my problem was denial, too. I think because kids learn to speak so differently doctors miss that cue. They’re looking for other indicators and don’t really seem to think speech is a big deal or something, which is crazy.

      • Liz

        I delivered in a catholic hospital, and when I was preparing for checkout, the nurse told me we couldn’t discuss birth control options because of their religious affiliation. So ridiculous.

      • Frannie

        I mean… UGH.

      • Amanda

        As a nurse I can attest to the fact that not all of my coworkers are the sharpest and there are a few I wouldn’t let near my loved ones. Sometimes all the training and book smarts can’t quite get the stupid out.

    • Shannon

      “When ‘natural’ starts to equal ‘against science’ I become worried.”

      This x a million. I was in a parenting group on Facebook for several months and had to scroll past ridiculous statements about vaccines, the Vitamin K shot, etc. I finally rage-quit after a post about the dangers of ultrasounds and how they’d deform your baby’s face and give it neurological delays. WTF.

    • http://facebook.com/guineverew Guinevere

      Alfalfa consumed in the last trimester is an awesome source of Vitamin K. So is the Vitamin K shot. i did both. no questions.

    • http://www.twitter.com/ohladyjayne allisonjayne

      Oy. Midwives here recommend it, and the eye ointment as well, and the PKU screening. None of those were even a question for me.

      I did 3 months of intramuscular shots to get pregnant with my baby. The least she could do was get one teeny shot in return.

      • Véronique the Attachment Shark

        The only thing my doula suggested was to ask to delay the eye ointment a few hours so that the baby could see us a bit when he was born he could see us better for a bit (since the ointment makes vision even blurrier than it is).

      • http://www.twitter.com/ohladyjayne allisonjayne

        We did the same. Though I think “delayed” is a bit misleading…it’s not even standard practice in the hospital I gave birth at to give the vitamin K and eye ointment right after birth – apparently they prefer to do them when the baby is (attempting to) breastfeed or doing skin-to-skin/cuddling with their mother.

        So it’s “delayed” in the sense that it’s not right after birth, but it’s well within the recommended time frame for effectiveness.

        (I’m not trying to correct you, just that the word “delayed” makes it sound like we’re going against the recommendation).

    • steampunkmama

      I am in a very anti vax area and the doctors and nurses at the hospital nearly cried when I told them to make sure and give my daughter every shot on the schedule for newborns. My ped loves me because we do all vaccinations on time. I have left multiple mommy groups because of the moronic crap that is said by uneducated moms. Mommy blogs are not scientific! Luckily I have found the sane pocket of moms in town: we are a mix of formula and breastfeeding, co-sleeping and nurseries, baby wearing and strollers but we all agree on vaccinations!

    • Jem

      I don’t think this is a new thing. When I was pregnant in 2011 this was something everyone talked about in the same subject as being against vaccinations. People would wax poetic about how happy they were to have their “perfect, unaltered baby just as it was meant to be without being injected with unnecessary chemicals or covered in eye goop”. It’s so dumb. When will people wake up and realize that they don’t always know better than doctors? How unnecessary for that poor boy to have brain bleeds because his mom read something somewhere one time.

      • noodlestein’s danger tits

        It’s just so silly. If their ‘perfect, unaltered baby’ had a cleft palate, I bet they’d get that fixed right quick! You can’t pick and choose, people!

      • Gangle

        My perfect, beautiful baby girl in the last 12 days has had her shots, heel prick tests, tongue and lip tie cut and time on a billi-blanket. I don’t understand what ‘unaltered’ is meant to mean, since she has been changing literally every single day of her twelve days so far.

      • CrazyFor Kate

        The minute you conceive a baby, you start to affect it. How can they not realize this?

      • noodlestein’s danger tits

        Really good point! Babies go through so many sea changes anyways, what’s one or two more?

    • KaeTay

      I’m wondering for the parents that they find don’t want the shot (and are breastfeeding) can they give the mother something so more vitamin K is in the breast milk

      • shel

        Part of the problem is that babies don’t have very good absorption of Vitamin K in the gut, so it doesn’t really matter how much they ingest, most of it will just pass right through.
        Certainly your husbands case is unusual regarding chicken pox- especially getting it twice, vaccinated or not most people won’t get it a second time. But people like him are why herd immunity is so important.

      • Rachel Sea

        My father got chicken pox twice, the second time when he was 33, and he is permanently disabled as a result. I am rabid in my endorsement of the vaccine. If it had been available in 1991 my dad probably wouldn’t have brain damage and epilepsy.

    • Sarah

      That poor baby. If a doctor recommends something and you aren’t sure about it, then by all means get a second opinion, do your own research – actual research, not the just Google it kind – and make an informed choice. Don’t just decide not to get whatever type of medical treatment because you heard bad things about it!

      Also kind of off-topic (kind of in being that this is about vaccines, not the Vitamin K shot) but I found this Tumblr post that has the absolute best response to the anti-vax movement. It’s in all caps, and you do have to scroll down a bit, so be warned.
      http://turnaboutkid.tumblr.com/post/84240584370/cozmopolitan-ifweweremartians-a-wak-e

      • Rachel Sea

        The thing that made me laugh the most were the tags at the end. That whole ALL CAPS AVENGER type rant, and then “vaccines.”

      • Sarah

        I’m rather partial to the insults they used, honestly. :)

      • Rachel Sea

        Fartnugget is definitely entering my lexicon.

      • Henrysmama

        That response was pretty much the best thing I’ve ever read. Anti-vaxxers make me hulk smash like nothing else.

      • Sarah

        Tell me about it. I don’t think I’ve ever reblogged something on Tumblr so fast in my life.

      • BexleyS

        The problem is, that if you want to find a particular answer in “research”, you’re guaranteed to be able to find some bullshit paper to substantiate what you want to hear. Im guessing these parents have already made up their minds. The amount if crap I hear from a particular one if my friends is unbelievable. When I question where she heard/read it, it’s always some crazy on a forum, never actual research. She treats it like gospel. I’ve given up trying to set her straight, she wants to believe what she wants to believe!

      • rockmonster

        Turnaboutkid’s rant is glorious.

    • shel

      Also… just in cases someone comes across this- the oral form of vitamin K… which does exist and is often the alternative chosen by some who refuse the shot… is useless. Your body needs bacteria in the gut to properly absorb the vitamin K and newborns do not have that ability. Which is why it’s given as a shot. So the oral form is just a waste of time and energy and doesn’t help your baby not bleed in their brain.

      Doctors want your baby to live and be healthy. Period. Full stop. That’s why we go into medicine (especially kid medicine).

      • waffre

        I was going to say something about the oral option but didn’t since I know oral vitamins don’t work the same as vitamin injections and wasn’t sure it was effective. Thank you for sharing this info.

      • shel

        The oral form is also not FDA approved/regulated in the US, so that also contributes to it being less effective/ not recommended.
        Not to completely contradict myself, since I still think it’s pretty useless, but oral Vit K does help a little, but can take up to 7 days to make any difference, and it it still nowhere near as effective as the shot.

    • Abby

      Godddd people on my birth board on BabyCenter were talking about this very thing and ugh. I just wished so much that I could punch them through the internet for being so stupid.

      • K.

        Sorry if I offend anyone, but I’ve said it once; I’ll say it again:

        Those b*tches on BabyCenter are dumb as rocks.

        Seriously.

      • Abby

        But at least they’re entertaining dumb as rocks. My only regret about the mess that was that birth board was that I couldn’t drink wine while reading it.

      • cmichelle

        They may be dumb as rocks, but I can’t help but lurk on my birth board because it makes me feel well adjusted and stable.

    • RayneofCastamere

      Dammit! Are they part of the Human Extinction movement? What the hell!

      https://38.media.tumblr.com/277ca5846f9c31314f46463ab8d28262/tumblr_n98gp4KNti1qad9zyo7_500.jpg

      • rockmonster

        *LOUD HISSING NOISES*
        Wouldn’t rapid depopulation of humanity do way more harm than good?

    • scooby23

      Vaccines are bad.
      Doctors are bad.
      Non-organic food is bad.

      And now vital vitamins are bad?
      Pretty soon, anything that isn’t therapy dolphin lotus yoga tree leaf oils are going to be declared bad. Goodness.

    • scooby23

      Vaccines are bad.
      Doctors are bad.
      Non-organic food is bad.

      And now vital vitamins are bad?
      Pretty soon, anything that isn’t therapy dolphin lotus yoga tree leaf oils are going to be declared bad. Goodness.

    • shorty_RN

      Hmmm, give my baby a harmless injection or have them possibly suffer a brain hemorrhage? Doesn’t seem like that hard of a choice to me, but fear makes people do stupid things. I just had a patient who, I shit you not, refused antibiotics for her poor son who had whooping cough. “We’re going to try to treat it naturally instead.” Ok, crazy…

    • Veronica Moser

      That title is totally misleading. Thats like saying antivaxxers are worried about baby food now, when its only one type in particular that has them concerned??

    • MyDaughterIsDead

      My daughter is dead and no vaccine could have saved her, she was raped and murdered.

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