Don’t Be Ridiculous, Not Circumcising Your Son Is Nothing Like Not Vaccinating Him

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The Mayo clinic came out with a new study this week, whose author, Brian J. Morris likens not circumcising your child to not vaccinating him. The American Academy Of Pediatric’s stand on this issue is still not one of pushing for routine circumcision, although they recognize that the benefits are good enough to make it available to those parents who want it for their children. I’m going to have to side with them. I’m not a doctor, but I can clearly see that the former statement is outrageous, while the latter is sensible.

Dr. Russel Saunders penned an essay for the Daily Beast today that addresses the many flaws with Dr. Morris’ study. Morris’ most inflammatory points are these: “Just as vaccination, failure to circumcise will put your son at serious risk of adverse medical conditions and he could indeed die from some of them. What’s more he will harm others, from sexually transmitted infections which include oncogenic HPV types that cause cervical cancer, a potentially lethal cancer.”

Morris also claims, “Denial of infant male circumcision is denial of his rights to good health, something that all responsible parents should consider carefully.”

Since I am not a doctor, I am going to defer to Dr. Saunders very sensible points here:

With regard to life-threatening health conditions that may be prevented by circumcision, HIV infections are at the top of the list. There have been studies that demonstrated a clear preventive benefit for circumcised males. However, all such studies I have seen have been conducted on men in Africa, where epidemic HIV among heterosexual men is part of an ongoing health crisis.

It’s always problematic when people cite resources like the World Health Organization, because those people generally tend to neglect the fine print on these studies – mainly that they don’t only involve subjects from first world countries. Dr. Saunders explains, “Generalizing those data to the United States, which has vastly different HIV prevalence and where sexual mores are significantly different than in places like Kenya, is intellectually problematic at best. The two populations are not similar enough to draw conclusions for both.”

Dr. Morris likens circumcision to vaccination by comparing the risk to others caused by refusing either intervention. But this comparison doesn’t withstand scrutiny. Most of the health risks borne by uncircumcised men fall solely on them, rather than the population at large.

It’s more than outrageous to liken catching an airborne disease or destroying herd immunity to having a higher risk for urinary tract infections or very rare cancers.

Dr. Morris mentions life-threatening illness caused by oncogenic (cancer-causing) HPV infection, but circumcision would only lower risk of transmission on an individual-by-individual basis, and only those engaged in an activity known to entail risk of infection. Contrast that with an unvaccinated individual who can expose everyone who went shopping at the same store within a two-hour window to a possibly deadly infection.

I’m not quite sure who Brian Morris is, or why the issue of circumcision has been turned on it’s head this week because of his inflammatory claims. But I would be more comfortable likening this man’s outrageous speak to that of anti-vaxxers, not the reverse.

But when Dr. Morris says that to deny an infant male circumcision is to deny him his rights to good health, he grossly overstates his case.

I think this is really irresponsible. Or do we all actually believe that every other first world country has this all backwards? Clearly there are benefits – and parents who have to make this very hard decision need to weigh those. But to imply that those parents who don’t agree with his case are denying their children the right to good health is absurd. As sensible proponents of “parental choice,” we get all up-in-arms when someone claims we are mutilating our child if we have him circumcised. Why aren’t we just as offended when someone claims we are denying him sound health if we don’t?

“For parents who choose not to circumcise their sons, I see no reason to counsel them otherwise, and nothing in this new study says anything to change my mind.”

(photo: Nguyen Thai/ Shutterstock)

You can reach this post's author, Maria Guido, on twitter.
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    • http://nessyhart.wordpress.com/ pixie

      Pretty much.

    • mrs. mitch

      Slightly off-topic, but here’s one thing I never understand when it comes to the pro/anti-circumcision debate. Are these studies following circumcised and intact men that are using condoms, or are the participants in these studies having unprotected sex? If you’re not circumcised, but you use a condom to prevent STDs/HIV/pregnancy, does it really matter?

      • CrazyFor Kate

        Yeah, I’d like an answer on that too. It seems to me that a condom would negate such a difference, but hey, maybe that’s not true.

      • the_ether

        Condom use is extremely low in Africa, as I understand it. Another reason that study’s results are less relevant here.

      • Bunny Lou

        To be honest; condom use is pretty spotty in America, too.

      • CMJ

        I think those studies are mostly for third world countries where condoms are not as readily available as they are in other places. Many of the HIV/Circumcision studies are done in Africa where there are huge HIV and STI issues.

      • Tara

        Aren’t the majority of European males uncircumcised? Surely there is some data about the European penises out there that would be more relevant in this debate.

      • Rachel Sea

        The participants were all having unprotected sex. Yes, condom usage would make an enormous difference.

    • CrazyFor Kate

      Aaand the Mommyish War commences. Where’s a hiding spot?

      • CMJ

        It’s been a long day.

      • http://fakegeekmom.com Aimee Ogden

        *puts on hastily-constructed helmet made of graham crackers*

      • CMJ

        at least it’s delicious.

      • Valerie

        And evil Legos.

    • shorty_RN

      Thank you for this article! I kind of thought Dr. Morris sounded a bit like a whack-a-doodle, but now I’m sure of it.

    • chickadee

      Doesn’t this rather undermine his credibility and call into question the veracity of his findings? It seems that he does not draw supportable conclusions from numbers…

      • Maria Guido

        I think so.

    • keelhaulrose

      Listen, I know we’ve run off most the anti vaxxers so we need something for drama, but could we limit it to one circumcision war a day and go back on ragging on the anti-graham cracker crowd again?

      • CMJ

        Seriously.

      • shorty_RN

        Yes! The anti-grahamers!

      • Maria Guido

        I didn’t do it for drama! I did it because I think that doctor is absurd – and because all of our coverage has been totally pro-circ.

      • Natasha B

        Yeah, I did an eye roll. There’s only so much penis debate I can handle.

      • jane

        I can handle an awful lot of penis debate, but the type I’m thinking of probably doesn’t primarily belong on a “mommy blog.”

      • Natasha B

        That’s my kinda debate! Haha

      • Obladi Oblada

        The only penis debate I’m interested in is whether or not to allow it to enter ‘heaven’s gates’. (For the record, that’s The Dude’s pet name…not mine. :))

      • Tinyfaeri

        I’ll second that, and raise you to one a week. Or month. Or just, you know, never.

    • http://fakegeekmom.com Aimee Ogden

      Yeah, my son is circumcised because of the AAP recommendation and health benefits, but I REALLY don’t think circumcision is anywhere near vaccine level of importance. You can go either way on circumcision and still be making a reasonable decision, that you think is best for your child, based on the scientific evidence at hand – not so much for immunization.

      • MellyG

        *claps*

      • Kelly

        I totally agree. I don’t think there’s any reason for people to fight about it. Those who don’t circumcise are not negligent parents and those who do are not baby butcherers. This is one of those topics where people really need to just mind their own business.

      • Justin Perez

        “I don’t think there’s any reason for people to fight about it”

        Thats because you havnt had to be subjected to genital cutting. Yes, you should mind your own business as your ignorance doesnt have any place here with the informed.

      • Kelly

        I’m not even slightly bothered by your outrage. LOL

      • CMJ

        the devolution that has already started in this thread is really why we can’t have nice things.

      • Valerie

        ..

      • Jezebeelzebub

        and this- this is what I’m talking about when I say the anti-circs are doing a disservice to their cause. You took an opportunity to behave rationally and leave someone with some food for thought, and instead you alienated her by being scornful and insulting. GREAT JOB. If you cared about your message, you would make your message palatable- you would reign in your anger or righteous indignation or whatever your deal is. But the message- fuck the message, right? It’s MUCH better to be a pompous windbag and make yourself feel better by calling someone else ignorant.

      • Justin Perez

        The disregard for the suffering of the victims of it tires me, especially me, almost full nullification of my sexuality, oh forgive me for my criticisms of those that are blindly speaking uniformed people, oh my! Forgive me….

        FYI, I have had my fair share in educating many people on the internet on physiology concerning circ. To those that know me would say the same.

        Also think about how difficult it is to deal with genital mutilation, oh Im sorry, you dont know what its like, so dont give me any shit.

        I care much of the message but not every confrontation has to be scripted.

        My message was to elicit and stimulate empathetical thinking, that being women (who havnt suffered genital mutilation) to think about their convictions about forcing surgery onto OTHER people. It puts the light onto them.

        I have put facts under people’s noses, that seldom works, I have had my share in education from experience. What works is self discovery. The amount of hypocrisy realized will correct them later in life through their own reformations.

        I believe the uniformed have no place in a discussion that concerns details and various ethical dynamics especially if its not their body in question.

        People get frustrated ya know, not every bit of text is as efficient as the other ones. Its lay people that are responsible for the existence of things like this:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmX6RdRNoqk&index=20&list=FLCoA71g7ECzoGz5D-jQfDaQ

      • Jezebeelzebub

        Check it out, sonny: I don’t give a rat’s ASS about your outrage. Further, I don’t give a fuck all day about what happened to your foreskin. If you are pissed off about losing it, then save your gall for YOUR mother. I reiterate- If you cared AT ALL about your message, if you cared AT ALL about *other* babies’ foreskins- you would STOW your indignation and make your message something that people will WANT TO LISTEN TO. Your entire position is that of what happened to YOU, and how you are so upset about it- and that my friend, is your EGO talking. It’s not supposed to be about YOU anymore, IS IT? It already happened to you. Now you want to “save” others from your fate. Bullshit. You want to rage against something that 1)is not anyone’s “fault” but YOUR mother’s, and 2)has already happened. You don’t care about babies or foreskins, you are pissed off and you aren’t gonna take it anymore. Here’s a hint, pal: if you DO manage to give a shit about anyone’s foreskin besides your own, shut your fucking face about this topic and let others who are reasonable and rational offer up their opinions, because they may actually make some headway (heh, headway) and all you are doing is more harm to your cause by being an obnoxious twat about it. MMkay? Jezzie OUT.

      • Justin Perez

        Jezebel, oh brother…… I know you dont give a rats ass about much of anything. No need to state the obvious.

        There are many that suffer, there are hidden communities because of the oppressive animosity of people like you. You talk about blaming the parents yet its the same parents here that agree to inflict the same thing unto their children. People that infringe on a person’s autonomy need to be reminded that its a negative thing.

        Yes, wouldnt a person with the misfortune of undergone GM want to speak out about it on behalf of those who shared the same condition? Anyone displeased with the malformity from forced surgery would agree that BASIC human rights shouldnt be up for debate or up to another person to decide when its unwarranted.

        And people wonder why men dont speak about this subject or their feelings. Any expression of discontent of conditions FORCED onto them leads to the animosity of repulsive and shallow individuals such as yourself.

        An attitude of passiveness is what creates conditions for absent-minded allowance of genital cutting of our most helpless humans. The very fact that baby boy’s most basic rights are infringed is very disillusioning, whether it happens to me or not. A decent and consistent person would uphold the same values for other people that they hold themselves such as personal autonomy. The protection of personal autonomy is the business of EVERYONE.

      • Jezebeelzebub

        I knew you could do it. Your tone has totally changed. You’re not being hysterical and yell-y anymore. I read your whole thing and not once did I get my back up. THIS, dude… THIS is what I’m talking about. I am not arguing circumcisions- pro or con. I can absolutely see your point.That’s no bullshit. What I take umbrage to is tone. Intactivists (or whatever the correct term is, I dunno if that’s rude.. “intactivists”, I mean.) and/or the militant breast-feeders and/or the attachment parents- I don’t think any of them are WRONG. All i was getting at was that anyone who wants to change anything is not going to bring about that change by being ugly about it. (Unless, of course, you happen to have an actual invading army… then you can kind of do anything you want if you have superior numbers/firepower) But I am guessing that since most people don’t have that, and they are trying to change people’s perceptions of whatever issues- and even more, their perceptions of themselves and what is Right or Wrong- being heinous is totally counterproductive. When you put people on the defensive right pout of the gate, there is no chance for growth or change. The door has slammed shut. it’s human nature. In conclusion, *this* exchange, (I feel) is much more productive. Good on you, sir.

      • Justin Perez

        Yes, there are militant intactivists. I find that there is more of a incidence of some female intactivists gravitating towards intactivism ONLY as a prop to claim moral superiority over other mothers in parenting forums using it as social ammunition instead of genuine concern for baby boys. I do not associate myself with those people as they dont intellectually add to informing people.

        I was wrong to alienate a person from the discussion. Ill admit, I should have engaged the person in better way but its is not characteristic of my comments as a whole.

        Good day.

      • Jezebeelzebub

        “I find that there is more of a incidence of some female intactivists
        gravitating towards intactivism ONLY as a prop to claim moral
        superiority over other mothers in parenting forums using it as social
        ammunition instead of genuine concern for baby boys.”
        -agreed. that shit ain’t right.
        “I do not associate myself with those people as they dont intellectually add to informing people.”
        -good for you. I love that you said this.

        Awesome. I feel good about this. Good talk.

      • Lamb

        Okay, so here’s my problem with this. I have many male friends (mostly exclusively friends with men), and am a very open person who discusses everything with pretty much anyone. I have a lot of friends that are circumcised, and some that aren’t. Every male friend I have spoken to about this issue (minus one) simply stated “I really don’t care. It didn’t affect me now that it’s done.” And many have even told me they don’t know what they would do with their own sons, and wouldn’t care if their sons were circumcised. If it’s such a “harrowing” experience, why are those men completely fine with doing the same thing to their sons? My main question, as a woman who cannot understand due to not having the parts, is what is the solution? I understand that there are some men like you out there that feel hurt over what happened to them, but the one male friend that did have an opinion is uncircumcised and told me that he wished he had been cut. So, this seems to be a lot more complicated than your posts are making it out to be. I understand you have a position, and I respect your right to voice it, but I just have not seen enough uniformity in the male community to stand with you on this. If you have stats or something to help prove me wrong, I am more than happy to read them and stand corrected. I just don’t see enough men saying they are “harmed” at this point for me to believe that your position is more than just a fringe thing.

      • Justin Perez

        A strange phenomenon is the occurence of those who have been genitally cut go on to pass it onto their children of the same sex. That is what is normal of circumcision cultures, all of them. Men officiate genital cutting of their sons and women will officiate genital cutting of their daughters. Strangely, some cut women seem so dismissive about their condition and in some cultures they exhibit the same behavior as men do about the circumcision status. Women are the biggest proponents of female circumcision in various female circumcision cultures as well as men for male circ cultures. Its like some weird circumcision complex or something, its as if its transmissible :

        You could kinda simulate the parts as a woman since you have all the same tissues embryologically, just imagine that the neural innervation has a different arrangement. As for mechanical function, imagine if you didnt have your clitoral hood, it would be quite abrasive and without non fluid motion as well as without lubrication. Imagine if the clitoral frenulum was also missing or destroyed. The mucosal lining of the labia I beleive also senses temperature such as cool air sensations. Also imagine an area of skin the size of an index card missing and little or no mobility.

        As for participation it depends on what they claim is fine. Arousal and sexual drive is not affected by circumcision, men with penectomies still experience arousal so arousal is not a means to gauge alright-ness. As for sensation it is not as simple as quantity of sensory units (nerve endings,) it includes how those sensations are perceived. Various mechanoceptors go to elicit various kinds of sensations. The more kinds of receptors the more kinds of “channels” of sensory perception are possible. For example dogs can see in a limited spectrum with few colors while humans can see a higher range of colors. Recently discoverd, there are women who are tetrachomatic and have 4 kinds of cones in their eyes where as normal people have only 3. This is an advantage in sensory awareness as the tetrachomats see more colors whereas the standard people cannot, yet both SEE but one gets the advantage. Now with sexuality, a series of biological events are at the height of human perceptual experience, so maximizing sensory awareness is in everyone’s interests. Various mechanoceptors go to make different sensations, whereas vision has channels of colors, somatosensation has channels of texture, the more the merrier. You can refer to Sorrel’s’ fine touch study for example of the mapping of one kind of receptor.

        Its very hard for men to voice their discontent in a circumcising culture, it always is. An uncut man/woman will feel alienated in a circumcision culture as nonconformity is looked down upon and/or may impede in finding a mate. There are incidences of pathological conditions that may lead to unsatisfaction of uncut men but that is not a normal condition and they have the freedom and support to choose to modify their genitals. One problem in this circumcising culture is the problem of culturally prescribed masculinity, in this culture men are expected not to voice their complaints if they have any. Men get a VIOLENT backlash if they voice their discontent with circumcision for some reason, even in social media I have seen some cold-hearted victim blaming commonly. There are men who are indeed satisfied with their circ status but there are also men with particular sexual dysfunctions that they have but have not attributed it to the consequences of being circumcised. To some when the attribution is made, harm is distinguished and realized. Those that identify patterns in dysfunction discover its source and voice it. By voicing it and questioning it DEMYSTIFIES the sexual response.

        It doesnt matter how few the victims are, the principles of human rights are about entirety. Children are born with minds that are in the interests of their own autonomy and not of any religion. Circumcision culture is not innate and is contrary to the owner of the body and violates self-determination. ALL children require the protection of their autonomy.

      • Lamb

        Although you have a point, comparing male circumcision to female is not valid. Since study after study has shown that female circumcision causes much greater health problems for women than male circumcision is shown to. You may be right that there are issues with male circumcision, but it isn’t on the same level as that of FGM. So, that comparison doesn’t help your argument. It sort of hurts it more, because people will dismiss an argument that may be valid if they individual is making crazy comparisons.

        Also, my issue is mostly that, although I fully believe that for you circumcision has caused grief (and that you probably are not alone), that doesn’t seem to be the general feeling on a large scale. And, you may be right, that some men are scared to speak out. But, I’m not seeing any proof of that. Although I support your opinion, you haven’t shown enough proof to sway me that this is a large issue that many men feel, and is therefore dangerous. Not that I would circumcise my own sons (if I were to have any), but I would let my husband decide, and support his decision (unless there is a ton of evidence to prove one side over the other, and I’m just not seeing that).

        Finally, although I understand why you say it doesn’t matter how few “victims” there are, it somewhat does. Your argument could be taken to the absurd to say that as long as one person feels “victimized” by something, we must stop it. I am sure you understand how crazy that is. Many people state that giving children vaccines makes them “victims” because we are adding chemicals to their bodies. Should we then stop? I hope you don’t think vaccines are bad, or else this argument may be lost on you. None the less, It’s just not that simple.

        I respect your opinion. However, I don’t feel you have shown enough science and statistics to back it up. If you have that, I’m all for it. If it is just opinion, I respect you, but will continue to defer to the men I know to help me make this difficult decision in the future.

      • Justin Perez

        Circumcision and vaccination are two entirely different things, one gives immunity to diseases while the other, well ummm….. doesnt really do anything. Conflating circ and vaccs is incorrect. Safe sex is still instructed for avoiding diseases making it obsolete as it already was. If it were like a vaccination than the men that think they are immune wouldnt go on sex sprees and come back clean, which is not the case as various incidences of perceptions of immunity. Its one thing to give someone predictable therapeutic benefit from vaccinations as it has proven itself effective with observable and unanimous agreement in most people. Circumcision does not have clear benefits and its claims are grounded on shaky “evidence.” Vaccinations dont include strapping a child down and cutting them. There is no alternative to get the immunity from vaccinations where as circumcision (whats claimed) can be substituted with condoms which are entirely more effective than cutting. Its unethical to deprive a child of a part of his/her body when easily accessible and reliable alternatives exist. Circumcision doesnt really do anything in the first place. Circumcised men and intact men will get HIV or any other disease if they have sex with anyone infected, that is not immunity and is not a form of vaccination. Also sex is a personal choice, some people choose not to have sex, to determine one’s sexuality is also to violate their Human Right to self determination as well as their autonomy by default. (A common issue nowadays is the genital cutting of intersex children which is a blatant manifestation of the violation of self determinism.) There are few intersex victims but its the principle of basic human rights that needs to be protected, not the hegemonic perception of the standard of living. This consistency of upholding human rights is important to its diffusion to other people and ourselves.

        As for female genital cutting I have an article for you describing it in detail and its relation to male genital cutting:
        http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2014/02/female-genital-mutilation-and-male-circumcision-time-to-confront-the-double-standard/
        This should clear some things up.

        When I speak of victimization I am referring to it in the sense of definitional mutilation, the word is not meant used in a connotative sense to elicit a negative emotional response just an objective one. Removing a very unique organ such as the male prepuce would be considered mutilation wrether the subject is okay with it or not. Its unique in the evolutionary sense because it differs from other mammals and especially our primate cousins concerning mechanics and neural innervation. The human male penis is quite remarkable in the animal kingdom as it has a very particular sensory and mechanical configuration. The sensory innervation can be referred to by Sorrel’s Fine Touch Study if you want insight into some of the effects. A very good book that describes the mechanical and sensory nature of the male penis is called “Sex As Nature Intended.”

        The very nature of infant circumcision should be enough criticize infant circumcision. A child has the human right of self determination, that is a value you share right? There are many human rights that we agree with. To allow non-therapeutic circ would be to violate these Human Rights, I believe that you and I would not want these rights infringed when its not appropriate. Therapeutic circ is appropriate when its to treat a pathological condition when all other options (that preserve autonomy) are exhausted.

      • Justin Perez

        Usually long texts dont have much impact on people, but if you want something a little more light hearted and humorous you can watch this:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tnVxlKp480

        Me going blah blah blah only goes so far.

      • Gaius Baltar

        But they are always compared, often by anti-FGM activists who want to feel that their culture is superior to the one they’re questioning. American FGM activism usually starts with that comparison and explicitly states that cutting boys is beneficial. And the cultures that cut girls started by cutting boys. The comparison will never go away because any two human rights violations can be compared even when one is far worse. This is surgically-enforced patriarchy, and most of its opponents are feminists.

      • Lamb

        I will respect that, Gaius. I don’t agree with comparing them, but I respect what you are saying about why people do. As I have stated before, I am not for circumcision. I simply don’t have a position because I’ve not seen enough evidence for either side. I appreciate your response though.

      • Guest

        I know it seems odd that something so commonplace would be so contested,
        but patriarchy comes up with some sick stuff. A woman who volunteered
        to be cut and supports FGC:

        fuambaisiaahmadu.com

        Basically,
        a man who wants to be cut can get cut. A cut man can’t get back what
        was taken. This is why ‘evidence’ doesn’t apply to human rights issues.
        Any evidence in favor of circumcision is only evidence in support of a
        man having himself cut.

        Cut men support this practice and force
        their wives to perpetuate it for the same reason that any tradition
        continues – because people see themselves as machines on an assembly
        line, and cut men don’t want to see themselves as ‘mutilated’ any more
        than Ahmadu does. Although honestly I’m afraid to link her because I’ve
        seen lots of Americans reflexively support FGC simply to have an excuse
        to support MGC. They’ll throw girls under the bus before they’ll uphold
        the idea that children aren’t property.

        Also, of course, the fact
        that doctors are trafficking in the tissue giving them a financial
        incentive to take as much as possible. This financial incentive applied
        to all four members of the AAP’s circumcision task force. One said 20%
        of his business was fixing botched circumcisions.

        At the end of
        the day, evidence against circumcision (though there’s plenty) isn’t
        necessary. Human rights don’t need justification. But the bigger problem
        is that all of the evidence in favor of circumcision is fiction, and
        that fiction has to be demolished. The US has an entire medical industry
        and population that are totally ignorant of normal male anatomy.

        Circumcision
        has been sold as a cure for epilepsy, insanity, paralysis,
        homosexuality, and a number of infections that barely exist in intact
        men. If foreskin is a disease as most Americans think it is, why don’t
        the other 70% of the world’s men have any problems?

        And when you talk about studies in Africa, remember that this is Europeans conducting surgical experiments on Africans. Johns Hopkins University in particular has a troubled past of deliberately infecting people with disease.

        Some links:

        ~Functions of the Foreskin: Purposes of the Prepuce
        http://www.drmomma.org/2009/09/functions-of-foreskin-purposes-of.html

        ~Circumcision: Social, Sexual, Psychological Realities
        http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201109/circumcision-social-sexual-psychological-realities?page=2

        ~Global Survey of Circumcision Harm
        http://www.circumcisionharm.org/

        ~Questioning Circumcision
        http://thejewishreporter.com/2011/06/02/questioning-circumcision/
        http://www.beyondthebris.com/

        ~The Other Side of the Circumcision Debate
        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/circumcision-debate-other-side_n_895132.html

        ~Jewish Circumcision Resource Center
        http://www.jewishcircumcision.org/

        ~Circumcision: Identity, Gender, and Power
        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miriam-pollack/circumcision-identity-gen_b_1132896.html

      • Gaius Baltar

        I know it seems odd that something so commonplace would be so contested,
        but patriarchy comes up with some sick stuff. A woman who volunteered
        to be cut and supports FGC:

        fuambaisiaahmadu.com

        Basically,
        a man who wants to be cut can get cut. A cut man can’t get back what
        was taken. This is why ‘evidence’ doesn’t apply to human rights issues.
        Any evidence in favor of circumcision is only evidence in support of a
        man having himself cut.

        Cut men support this practice and force
        their wives to perpetuate it for the same reason that any tradition
        continues – because people see themselves as machines on an assembly
        line, and cut men don’t want to see themselves as ‘mutilated’ any more
        than Ahmadu does. Although honestly I’m afraid to link her because I’ve
        seen lots of Americans reflexively support FGC simply to have an excuse
        to support MGC. They’ll throw girls under the bus before they’ll uphold
        the idea that children aren’t property.

        Also, of course, the fact
        that doctors are trafficking in the tissue giving them a financial
        incentive to take as much as possible. This financial incentive applied
        to all four members of the AAP’s circumcision task force. One said 20%
        of his business was fixing botched circumcisions.

        At the end of
        the day, evidence against circumcision (though there’s plenty) isn’t
        necessary. Human rights don’t need justification. But the bigger problem
        is that all of the evidence in favor of circumcision is fiction, and
        that fiction has to be demolished. The US has an entire medical industry
        and population that are totally ignorant of normal male anatomy.

        Circumcision
        has been sold as a cure for epilepsy, insanity, paralysis,
        homosexuality, and a number of infections that barely exist in intact
        men. If foreskin is a disease as most Americans think it is, why don’t
        the other 70% of the world’s men have any problems? The world map of
        circumcision tells you all you need to know. Looking at it you wonder
        how AIDS ever managed to spread in Africa:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Global_Map_of_Male_Circumcision_Prevalence_at_Country_Level.png

        And when you talk about studies in Africa, remember that this is Europeans conducting surgical experiments on Africans.

        Some links:

        ~Functions of the Foreskin: Purposes of the Prepuce
        http://www.drmomma.org/2009/09/functions-of-foreskin-purposes-of.html

        ~Circumcision: Social, Sexual, Psychological Realities
        http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201109/circumcision-social-sexual-psychological-realities?page=2

        ~Global Survey of Circumcision Harm
        http://www.circumcisionharm.org/

        ~Questioning Circumcision
        http://thejewishreporter.com/2011/06/02/questioning-circumcision/
        http://www.beyondthebris.com/

        ~The Other Side of the Circumcision Debate
        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/circumcision-debate-other-side_n_895132.html

        ~Jewish Circumcision Resource Center
        http://www.jewishcircumcision.org/

        ~Circumcision: Identity, Gender, and Power
        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miriam-pollack/circumcision-identity-gen_b_1132896.html

      • Gaius Baltar

        It also bears mentioning that Morris (a pedophile with no medical background) doesn’t believe in letting parents choose. He wants it to be mandatory.

      • Helena Inviere

        You just made a comparison, and most women who’ve been cut say they don’t have problems either.

        This is a human rights issue, with only one side. The individual’s feelings about their own body are all that matters.

      • Lamb

        I’ve been very respectful about the opinions of any man who feels that his circumcision has caused him problems, but I’m sorry, this is just wrong, Helena. Read the MASSIVE amounts of studies on FGM, read what the WHO has to say about FGM, read what the UN has said about FGM. You cannot say “most women who’ve been cut say they don’t have problems either.” The studies and information do not back up that claim at all. And, as I said before, if there were studies to prove male circumcision is a problem, like there are for women, I would be happy to read them and learn more. But, I’m sorry, your comment contradicts the massive amount of information out there.

      • Guest

        I agree with you entirely. I’m saying that lots of women are *claiming* not to have problems because there is societal pressure telling them they don’t.

        The studies are correct – FGM causes major problems. I’m saying that cut women are culturally conditioned to ignore those problems or to misidentify them. So are cut men.

      • Gaius Baltar

        Every form of ritual violence is perpetuated by the victims. They have a vested psychological interest in seeing themselves as ‘normal.’ And mothers who don’t want to cut are being coerced by such men.

      • Sammy

        I agree that people have no right to think or behave angrily about things that were done to them without their consent and that have significantly impacted their lives (as Justin’s circumcision seems to have). Their words should be carefully selected to give you, the asshole reader, the most pleasure, perhaps also coming with an express delivery of chocolate and a massage.

        I am a chick and usually don’t feel strongly about this stuff, but good god you’re a colossal asshole and so are a lot of people on this post! It’s also pretty ironic that it’s almost entirely cis women in a first world nation talking about the pros and cons of circumcision like they’re experts and then getting pissy when a guy mentions that they’re full of shit, you are the perfect matches to the men who don’t see why any negative female experiences should be respected since they don’t affect guys, and gosh why can’t you be nicer when I say it’s no big deal??

      • Jezebeelzebub

        What part of what I am saying do you not grasp? Do you want me to draw you a picture- preferably in crayon? If you want you can go back and re-read my posts, and bring a thesaurus with you, or maybe have a grown up explain all the big words and apparently bigger ideas expressed therein. I am a colossal asshole, and you, my dear chickadee, are an even bigger moron. But I’ll totally take you up on the massage and the chocolate. Say around 11:30 tomorrow morning? And if you could shut your face whilst you rub me, that’d be greeeaaaat.

      • Helena Inviere

        You know, instead of campaigning against circumcision I think I’ll just start campaigning FOR female circumcision:

        http://www.fuambaisiaahmadu.com

      • Jezebeelzebub

        awesome. you go first!

      • Gaius Baltar

        And this is why men don’t care about what happens to women. No matter what happens to a man he is expected to ‘man up’ (which is what men have been doing for thousands of years). If we were talking about any other violation nobody would silence the person whose actual body has been affected in order to save the feelings of those who are not affected.

      • Helena Inviere

        Now you know why men don’t listen to women who are raped. It’s always about what other people think, because people don’t own their bodies. You’re not opposed to any human rights violation. Not FGM, not rape, anything. You’ve explicitly rejected the whole concept of human rights.

      • Jezebeelzebub

        this might bother me if you had an opinion that was in any way germane to what I had been saying. But it’s not, so it doesn’t.

        Good talk. I feel good.

      • Sara610

        If the education that you’re doing is “on the internet”, I hate to break it to you, but you’re probably not educating that many people at all. You may be spouting off your opinions, but that’s not the same thing as educating people or making any kind of an actual contribution to the debate. Especially if this is how you go about relaying your message.
        If you really want to make a difference, maligning random strangers on Internet comment boards is a hilariously ineffective way to go about it. But hey, it doesn’t require any actual effort or particular expertise, so I guess there’s that.

      • Justin Perez

        Opinions? ummm opinions are for example:

        I think green cell phones look more sleeker. I have an easier time finding it if

        Fact:

        Meissner’s Corpuscles are mechanoceptors that sense tactile touch and aid in somatosensory perception.

        I dont care for opinions, I present facts and yes, it may be a few people but that diffusion does make a difference even if its minor. The presentation of an idea whether it be an analogy or objective description of the nature of a topic is what is important.

      • personal

        It is very easy to turn people off to your side by telling them you’re going to ‘educate’ them. That in-your-face post the other day supporting circumcision was just as bad and showed a total lack of respect for the readers. I chose not to comment on it.
        I never considered circumcising my son, nor piercing my
        daughter’s ears. I think their bodies are perfect as they are.
        Please, when you state your cases, be polite and stop pretending to be the experts.

      • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

        Hey Justin, I actually would like to know more, as how you feel this has been a full nullification of your sexuality.

      • Justin Perez

        Well, I should say gratification primarily, that being sensing acute pleasurable sensations. I said it was an almost full nullification. I have always sensed something wrong down there since I was 7. I always wished I had more skin and remember that at a young age, it was a current theme in my sexual development. I never really actually liked my body down there, especially since its dried out and abrasive. As of most US cut men, the shaft skin is pulled up about an inch so pubic skin hair is higher another never ending annoyance. Its all just so wrong.

        Here is my description on the erogenous capacity for me. For one, I had a pharisaic styled circ (removes the entire prepuce; 2-3in x 3-5in) or its also known as modern or medical circ (popularized in the US in early 19th century.) This is the kind that most Americans see, it is the maximized form of standardized circ which is unlike the biblical circ which is a minimal form of it. Personally, I cannot feel any tactile or erogenous sensations from the glans penis, coronal ridge or mucosal remnant. The glans feels only pain or irritation like sensations (free nerve endings/nociceptors.) To know what kind of sensation I am talking about, as a woman you would need to stimulate your glans clitoris until orgasm to elicit the post orgasmic refractory period (shorter for women) which will lead to uncomfortable or painful hypersensitivity of those free nerve endings. A very mild degree of that is the only thing I can feel in the glans depending on what I am wearing and I have NO capacity to sense temperature. During arousal it is NOT to be touched when moist, it entirely feels only raw, erogenous sensations elude me entirely, they always have in that region as well as the coronal ridge. The mucosal remnant feels like a large scar. The listed three zones have no tactile sensations what so ever. NO erogenous capacity including the meatus. The corpus muscles do not elicit pleasure as would women probably know from their clitoral shafts.

        The ONLY erogenous zone I have and rely on is the circumcision LINE. It is a dark circumferential line, it is an about 1mm band of sensitive skin between the remaining shaft skin and the scar tissue of the mucosal remnant. This little band can sense the lightest touch and temperature in the erogenous sense. I feel pleasure from flutters/tickles/cold/slow lubricated twists (parallel to the circumcision line.) While the zone is small, its sensory resolution is very high (I believe its some form of attempted sensory compensation from development; plasticity.) Because the resolution is high (higher corpuscular innervation?) when finger ridges run through this 1mm circumcision line perpendicularly it is perceived as being larger than it is. Anything other than than this zone is useless.

        Having excessive skin taken this zone is hard to reach and makes deriving even half-assed pleasure very difficult. The highest capacity for pleasure is just “meh.” I have a HUGE capacity for arousal but very little for actual sensory reward. So it makes a bit of a predicament. Orgasm? Ha! More like Anhedonia lol. Sexuality simply becomes a chore, to me its an inconvenience especially with the lack of mechanical functioning. To be honest, its fucking boring equipment.

        I dont mind not being much of sexual being anymore, Ive come to accept it. I am a sexual inferior, I become envious of other people that feel substantial pleasure and are in pristine condition. While sexual pleasure is a shallow commodity, it is the height of human neurological experience (except grand mal seizures haha lol) and that exclusion of the full experience is one of the things I am quite displeased with. Its bothering to see people not handle that seriously with baby boys.

        There are more dynamics that I could describe but its already a large wall of text. Comprehension of sensory perception is hard to objectively state.

      • billesuor

        Justin, *everyone* should read this enlightened, well-researched and right where you live post. I’m stealing it for another site (I’ll not use your name). I hope you find a path to better sex, my friend…

      • billesuor

        I grok you, Justin. I’m re-posting this from above to make sure you see it: I had no choice in the matter, and
        my mom didn’t want to see me maimed, so the deed was never done. As a
        55-year-old, I have read research that indicates circumcision can limit
        the growth of the penis, and also reduces the nerve count (many are done
        poorly and take a lot of nerves with them), thus reducing sensitivity,
        sensitivity that men will miss in their 50′s and beyond! Nearly all of
        my same-aged friends who have been circumcised (yes, men shower in one
        big stall at the gym) need the blue pill. I have never had any problems
        in that department. As far as disease goes, I can’t speak to that, as I
        am a real boy scout when it comes to safe sex. Just thought I’d give a
        natural man’s viewpoint…fire when ready! ;)

        P.S. Here’s an uncontroversial topic…female circumcision! ;)

      • Sara610

        THERE it is!

    • Sally

      It’s Maria vs. Bethany….Mommyish battle of the year! Grab your popcorn!

      • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

        (You know what I did? Signed off for the day)

    • Robotic Socks

      Oh, if a dude has those black spots on his banana like that, I recommend NOT eating it.

      • Valerie

        Puahahahaha.

      • Robotic Socks

        Use clorox wipes for the spit on the monitor.

      • Valerie

        I actually do that at work. They are remarkably effective. You’re so domesticated!

      • Robotic Socks

        I have plenty of experience wiping off bodily fluids off computer monitors… O_o

      • Valerie

        I have no doubt, Mr. Youporn.

      • Robotic Socks

        Youporn? It’s because I was sick and was sneezing a lot.

        Man, what’s with you and Kay… everything’s always sexual with yall…

        /Judgy

      • Kay_Sue

        As an experienced penis handler, I second this opinion.

      • Valerie

        Is that like being a reptile or rare bird handler? I imagine a great deal of training is involved.

      • Kay_Sue

        You really have to be dedicated to the cause.

      • Tinyfaeri

        And wear a glove!

      • Robotic Socks

        HUH? Penis? O_o

        What are you talking about Kay? I was talking about spots on bananas indicate the commencement of enzymatic reactions that’s breaking down the fiberius structures, which incubates bacteria and their growth.

      • Kay_Sue

        Dammit. There went my mind, right into the gutter again.

    • Kendra

      I agree with what this article says, but I am FAR too over the topic of penises to really say anything else. Carry on you penis lovers/haters.

      • CMJ

        I have total penis fatigue right now.

      • waffre

        I disagree. More discussions about baby penises! Baby penises all the time FOREVER!

        >.> Either that, or more crockpot recipes. I like the crockpot recipes.

      • CMJ

        Can we just go back to judging xojane? I like that.

      • waffre

        Ooh, that would be even better!

      • Kitsune

        IHTM: My husbands anger at losing two thousand nerve endings ruined our marriage.

      • Tinyfaeri

        IHTM: Mommyish Gave Me Penis Fatigue and Now My Husband is Cranky.

      • Valerie

        Yeah I don’t think I can get it up again.

    • CMJ

      How about we all just focus on this gif of Andy Dwyer dancing?

      http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/andy-dancing-prom.gif

    • Andrea

      I am still undecided on the circ issue. We did it for our sons because my husband was a huge proponent and since I don’t have a penis, it didn’t seem like the thing to object to. And for my husband it wasn’t all about health but because he didn’t want him to “different” and made fun of in a locker room.

      It is important to note that outside the USA, circ is not a thing for most non-jewish males. In fact, I hadn’t seen a “V-neck” until I moved here.

      And no, it is not the same as not vaccinating. Not vaccinating puts potentially thousands of people at risk. Not circumcising only affects the one boy and no on else if he uses a condom.

      • Roze Quartz

        Ah but you do have a foreskin and you do know what it’s like to have all your genitals intact. The female foreskin is the clitoral hood. Like the clitoral hood protects the clitoris, the male foreskin protects the penis.
        You don’t have to have a penis to fight for this human right. You ONLY have to be human.

      • shorty_RN

        I don’t understand the sentiment of “well, I don’t have a penis, so I will let my husband decide.” I am the mother. I had equal say in the issue. Just because I don’t have a penis doesn’t mean I can’t have an opinion and an understanding of the situation.

      • billesuor

        Not everyone gets the “elephants trunk” look. When I reached puberty, women couldn’t even tell that I hadn’t been circumcised…the slack disappeared! Just sayin’…

      • Andrea

        Interesting. I’ve seen more uncirced penises than circed penises…and the elephant trunk look was present in all the ones I’ve seen. Not that it bothered me then since I hadn’t seen circed ones before. In fact, it took me a little bit to get used to crew neck look of the circed penises. I think it depends on what you are used to.

    • Iwill Findu

      Not being circumcised doesn’t put the general public at life or death risk not being vaccinated does. How are these even the same?

    • Gary Harryman

      Thank you Maria. When we know better, we do better. In this Age of Equality it is time the civilized world put an end to such Stone Age violations of Fundamental Human Rights. Neurologically, the four most specialized pressure-sensitive cells in the human body are Meissner’s corpuscles for localized light touch and fast touch, Merkel’s disc cells for light pressure and tactile form and texture, Ruffini’s corpuscles for slow sustained pressure, deep skin tension, stretch, flutter and slip, and Pacinian corpuscles for deep touch and detection of rapid external vibrations. They are found only in the tongue, lips, palms, fingertips, nipples, and the clitoris, and in the crests of the Ridged Band at the tip of the male foreskin. These remarkable cells process tens of thousands of information impulses per second and can sense texture, stretch, vibration, and movement at the micrometre level. These are the cells that allow blind people to “see” Braille with their fingertips. Cut them off and, male or female, it’s like trying to read Braille with your elbow as a veritable symphony of sensation is downgraded dramatically and the victim is crudely sub-normalized for life. A woman can live without the sensitivity of the visible part of her clitoris, and a man can live without the mobile and most sensitive part of his penis, but both men and women are better off with their natural fine-touch parts intact and undiminished – and so are their sexual partners. Like a child blinded at birth, the victim of partial penis amputation may never understand what was lost, but the loss is still real. Sexually mutilating a young girl is just as horrible and can cause painful complications years later. Honest and honorable people don’t try to excuse either such cruelty with the smoke and mirrors and faux science. Male or female, infant or adult, forced genital mutilation is simply a violation of Fundamental Human Rights. This is not about some unwashed jungle tribe – “them”; this is about us. Are we Americans civilized and strong enough to break the chain of violent sexual abuse of babies and children in families, or will this generation be just another dumb link in the chain of sexual abuse of children? Google The Lost List.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      I’m so scared the Return Of Kings/reddit Men’s rights dudes are gonna kidnap Maria and take her to their Island and make her their queen now :(

      • CMJ

        see below.

      • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

        where?

      • CMJ

        Maybe above? We have our first “child abuse” utterance.

      • momjones

        IGNORE! I CAN’T TAKE IT ANYMORE!

      • CMJ

        Don’t you have those babies over yet? I already tried to FaceTime you.

      • momjones

        We’re going there. And your brother is coming too! I’ll give him the further details of the ongoing penile bruhaha (but not in front of the children…THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!).

      • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

        Please make sure he realizes you told everyone about his junk!

      • momjones

        He’s cool with it. When he was 3, we were in the check out line at the grocery store and a little girl in front of us turned to him and said, “I have a candy bar, nah, nah, naaa, nah!” To which he replied, ” I have a penis.” True story. I wonder if he knew then about his 20,000 NERVE ENDINGS?!

      • Maria Guido

        Do they have an island? You KNOW how desperate I am to get out of Florida.

      • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

        I think they do Maria, they are gonna erect (see what I did there?) a big old statue to you!

      • Fireinthefudgehole

        Better pack some fedoras!

    • Rachel Sea

      Morris is a quack. His website is so biased it departs from scientific basis entirely.

      • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

        I once wrote about the m ‘tzitzah and people got soooo mad lawd

      • Rachel Sea

        Most Jews aren’t even cool with it. I’ve been to many a bris, and I’d never even heard of the practice until I was an adult. Implications of molestation aside, once we knew germs were a thing, all but a fringe of the Orthodox abandoned oral suction for suction with a sterile medical instrument.

    • Roze Quartz

      Brian Morris is not a doctor nor a medical professional. He is a professor of molecular biology. A quick search will show you this.
      You should correct the information because that’s the problem. People think he’s a doctor or a medical professional and he’s not!

    • Tara

      He definitely seems to have some like-minded colleagues up here in MD. When we chose not to circ our son this year, there was a definite shift in how the hospital started treating us. LIke, all of a sudden we were crazy hippies for not wanting to circ our son. The nurse practically did a double take when we said we still wanted to get the hep b vaccination done.

      • Barry

        You’re doing the boy a terrible disservice……….big STD issues with males that are uncircumcised……..

      • Sri

        Or, you know, he could use a damn condom…

      • personal

        Yeah, sure, that’s why the folks here in Germany (where circumcision is very rare among non-Muslims) have such a high rate of STDs. Oh, wait a minute. They don’t.

        The US rates are higher. Facts. Facts. Facts.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=List_of_countries_by_HIV/AIDS_adult_prevalence_rate

      • Guest

        Oh please don’t tell me you actually believe an inch of foreskin has anything to do with STDs. Correlation does not imply causation, people.

    • ScienceGeek

      My husband’s grandfather was in WWII, and was heavily involved in government-run soldier services for the rest of his life. He is ADAMANT about circumcision, to the point where he threatened to disown my MIL if she didn’t circumcise her boys. Honestly, I respect his views, partly because I never want to hear the stories of WHY he’s so in favour of it (I suspect it will use words like ‘rotting’ and nopenopenopenope). I’ve read the studies that found uncircumcised men are at greater risk of infections, as are their partners, and even with a measely two semesters of microbiology in undergrad, warm, moist area + bacteria = lots of bacteria seems like a logical equation to me, especially given the the limitations of soap in small areas with foldy bits. I’m familiar with the studies on HIV, but, like it’s already been said, they’re far more relevant in endemic African nations than Australia.
      That said, I’m side-eying the hell out of the uncircumcised = non-vaccinated claim. That ‘circumcision = child abuse!’ stuff from the intactivists pisses me off, but this is a whole different level.

      • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

        If your husband’s grandfather wants to write me a piece, I would so publish that. I LOVE old peoples.

    • Cliff

      If you think having no foreskin will protect you from HIV you are a fucking idiot. Someone should tell this ‘Doctor’ that the countries with the highest HIV rates also have the highest circumcision rates.

    • Frannie

      LOL I’m sitting across from my MIL who is eating a banana as I read this. I’m not doing so well at the whole ‘straight face’ thing.

    • Melissa T.

      For some reason the ‘Share A Tip’ option under the article is hilarious in this context.

      • Jezebeelzebub

        YESSSS- it’s not just me!

    • Kim

      I’ve been reading about this debate with interest. For me when I had my son circumcising him never occurred to me as it is not pushed at all here in NZ and I was constantly told the foreskin requires as much attention as the elbow :) – although I had heard of some doing it due to religious reasons. Imagine my surprise when it became apparent by the time my son was three that he had phimosis (non retractable foreskin) which was causing all sorts of problems for him. The above risks of not circumcising him were laid out to me by the pediatric surgeon but she only related it back to the whole phimosis thing. She seemed very non-plussed about circumcision otherwise, infact that is the prevailing attitude. If you want a circumcision due to reasons other than medical you’d find it hard to get support from the medical community here. Not taking sides here, just relaying my personal experience with foreskins :).

    • koolchicken

      I wonder if he thinks my kid should have been circumcised? By the time we knew he’d survive the procedure he was pretty old. What’s his take on circumcisions for much older babies. You know, like ones who can scream “Stop, you’re hurting me!” Should we strap him down and start cutting off normal body parts now? He’s 16 months and still a baby, so it’s okay right?

    • Marge

      Ironic then they by quoting a quack like Morris you have even less credibility than an anti vaxxer. This has seriously thrown doubt on any previous medical advice articles on Mommysih. I won’t be taking anything on here seriously again.

      • Snarktopus

        Did you even read the article?

      • Marge

        That was actually meant to be a reply to the Ramos article. Sorry I had both tabs open.

    • billesuor

      Ok, as a male, I will chime in here. I had no choice in the matter, and my mom didn’t want to see me maimed, so the deed was never done. As a 55-year-old, I have read research that indicates circumcision can limit the growth of the penis, and also reduces the nerve count (many are done poorly and take a lot of nerves with them), thus reducing sensitivity, sensitivity that men will miss in their 50′s and beyond! Nearly all of my same-aged friends who have been circumcised (yes, men shower in one big stall at the gym) need the blue pill. I have never had any problems in that department. As far as disease goes, I can’t speak to that, as I am a real boy scout when it comes to safe sex. Just thought I’d give a natural man’s viewpoint…fire when ready! ;)

    • SteveOh

      Good post but you went too easy on the pseudo science pervert. Not only is he not a medical doctor but he’s been caught consorting with circumfetish paedophiles such as Vernon Quaintance.

      A googling of ‘Brian J Morris and Vernon Quaintance’ will provide a wealth of information. See for example: http://circleaks.blogspot.com.au

    • Gaius Baltar

      Now you understand the dishonesty being used to sell this snake oil. If you subscribed to the concept of human rights you wouldn’t have to address the issue at all.

    • Jenkins

      I think it is worthy to note that in one of his papers promoting the benefits of foreskin removal he felt the need to point out that gay men like to dock. His views are hardly subjective if he is analyzing the sexual practices of grown adults as proof that men are better off somehow without their entire genitalia. He also pushes to have it done as early in life as possible to “confer the greatest number of benefits”, which to me seems a little odd, as if he doesnt want parents to notice a foreskin CAN be healthy. Additionally, he states that if a foreskin cannot be retracted at birth, that is phimosis and must result in immediate circumcision….which is just a blatant lie on his part since none retract at birth. If anyone ever mentions his previous association with the gilgal society, a rabid pro circ group headed up by a now convicted pedophile, he sues the shit out of them.

      Morris is simply not credible on any level.