• Fri, Mar 21 - 3:00 pm ET

Are You There, Moms? It’s Me, Idiot Where Do You Stand On Circumcision?

mom adviceAre You There, Moms? It’s Me, Idiot is an ongoing series dedicated to helping one very well-intentioned and dumb future-parent learn about the world of childrearing. Click here to see past columns.

In this week’s edition of Are You There Moms? It’s Me, Idiot, I want to talk about penises. Well, less about penises on the whole, but about circumcision. What did you do when faced with your kids’ penises? That made more sense in my head.

I understand that many people circumcise according to religious doctrine. While I have a cultural affiliation with Judaism, I don’t plan to raise my children with any religion, so I have no faith-based reason to have my sons circumcised. Others simply have accepted circumcision as the norm when it fact it isn’t, and opt for the procedure post delivery in the hospital. Try as I may to ignore this reality of my very limited worldview, I definitely have adopted the notion that circumcision is the normal way of going about things, and I spent much of my teen years terrified that I’d undo someone’s pants to find an uncircumcised penis that I wouldn’t know how to handle (not like I was particularly adept with the circumcised ones). Suffice it to say that I am not a penis expert. Never have been.

In college, I somehow found myself watching a Dutch documentary called “Mom, Why Did You Circumcise Me?” about a dude who was really upset that he was circumcised and was open to trying these contraptions that stretched his penis around until he had foreskin again, or something. He presented it as a violation and mutilation–all of which makes sense when presented in that light. The comparison to female circumcision seems like a stretch–but I can certainly understand why a man might find it odd that his parents decided to remove some of his genitals as a baby. On the other side, research that suggests that circumcision lowers the rate of HIV transfer makes me think that it’s a no brainer medical issue. But like I said, I’m not a penis expert.

Now, I’m a childless 20-something with no immediate plans to procreate, walking around with the crippling fear that I’ll make the wrong decision, circumcision-wise. At this point, I’m hoping that I’ll either become more decisive, focus my attention on the myriad other ways I could fail as a parent, or just end up with a slew of daughters.

Where do you all stand on this? Do you have strong feelings one way or the other? Anyone have a circumcised partner and uncircumcised kids, or the other way around?

Photo: Are You There God? It’s Me, Margaret

You can reach this post's author, Julia Sonenshein, on twitter.
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  • PenisesAreBornPerfect

    Wow, wow, wow.
    Did anyone commenting watch the documentary Julia linked above?
    I just did, figured I may as well before going to bed. I would ask each of you to watch it, and to comment on it. I found it very moving and highly interesting. I am also so very glad to see and hear so many people’s thoughts and to be having this dialogue.

    Mommyish is a fantastic resource and forum, and I have been a longtime reader. I am consistently impressed and relieved that there are so many aware and thoughtful people in this community. Before Mommyish, I was pretty disillusioned with the state of current motherhood. You guys make me feel normal, bwahahaha. I disagree with some ideas, but I absolutely agree with more, for the most part, and I feel very thoughtful about issues posted on here either way. I discuss mommyish stuff with my friends and family regularly.

    That said, I posted a lot for the first time today bc I was shocked at how many otherwise, in my opinion only, of course, rational, reasonable, feminist/humanist readers on here are ambivalent to what I see very clearly as a Human Rights issue. Even if they aren’t specifically for circ, many are not against it, and I find that ambivalence here on Mommyish shocking. I suppose I shouldn’t, but that’s just how I feel. Anyway, great documentary, very thought-provoking.

    • Lawrence Newman

      My opinion of women has never been so low. I thought they were meant to be the caring, nurturing sex. Seems like most are sociopaths. I would sterilise women who thought this was acceptable to do to babies.

  • Guest

    i agree

  • CanadianSavage

    BITCHES LOVE A CIRCUMCISED CLEAN DICK…SERIOUSLY

    • Ro

      Well… we do like a clean dick, I can’t argue with that, but I never cared whether it was circumcised or not. Then again I’m not shallow…

    • Jezebeelzebub

      as long as it works and isn’t smelly, I’ll be happy.

    • Lawrence Newman

      Women in America who are acculturated into seeing nothing other than circumcised penises would agree with you. 80-90% of the world’s men are intact and women prefer intact where that’s the norm.

      It’s nothing to do with what women like. His body, his choice.

      Not much use in women finding my penis attractive when I don’t want to have sex or get a blowjob because I feel zero sexual pleasure due to having my penis stripped of erogenous tissue.

  • lena247

    I’m also a childless 20 something, and I have zero intention of circumcising my children. Where I live, it’s rarely done, something like under 10% of male babies born here are circumcised. It’s not even a question that people ask, because people do not consider it a norm. People claim health reasons to justify their existing cultural biases, but really it’s a cosmetic surgery. I don’t think religious reasons are adequate to perform an unnecessary surgery on a tiny baby, that baby certainly isn’t a member of the religion, and I don’t think parents have the right to permanently alter their body based on that. The vast majority of men I know have intact penises and I’ve never heard of anyone having issues with their penis because of it. It used to be more common here, and my SO’s dad was circumcised, but neither of his sons were. I asked my SO if that bothered him and he said he didn’t even notice, he only knew from a discussion. Outside of the US this doesn’t even seem to be a debate, down here in NZ and Australia it’s a real rarity. If someone I know circumcised their baby I would be really upset at that.

  • Ro

    I just don’t see the point in circumcision, unless it’s for medical reasons. Males have evolved to have a foreskin for a reason. Also, there are risks to circumcision that I simply wasn’t willing to take for no good reason.

    • Lawrence Newman

      There isn’t one medical reason for circumcision, as it is not a therapeutic medical procedure. Pretty much any condition can be cured via less invasive means. Unless we’re talking about necrotising fascitis or frostbite, which may require amputation.

  • Jezebeelzebub

    I hate the CIRCus. The Great Foreskin Debate is just… I hate it. I hate it worse than the Anti-Vacc Campaign. I don’t think parents who don’t circ are bad for not doing it, and I also don’t think that parents who DO circ are bad for doing it. While there are parents out there who like to do horrible things to their kids, I feel pretty good saying that they are in the distinct minority. I dont know any parents who have decided to circ their boys who are just all lathered up and Tally-Ho at the thought of mutilating their children- that’s ridiculous. The thing is that you can find information to back up your position, whether Anti OR Pro circ. I think parents are just trying to do they best they can for their kids. If you are Anti Circ and you truly believe that circumcision is a horrible thing, the worst way to go about changing people’s minds is to lead with YOU ARE A MONSTROUS PIECE OF SHIT- you just alienated the people you are trying to reach. If you want to teach, to educate- you’re doing it wrong. Putting people on the defensive is the best way to make sure your message isn’t heard. You may truly feel that this issue is the most important issue parents will ever face, and if that’s true and you want circumcision to go away entirely then you have to understand that changing the status quo takes time. Beating people over the head won;t make it happen any faster and you are preventing nothing. If you want people to listen, give them food for thought, and not outright dismiss what you are trying to tell them, then you have to not be dismissive of your audience, either. If you would be respected and heard, then you have to respect and hear others. You do not have to agree. You do not have to stop talking about it or persuading. But if you are really committed to bringing about a change, then you must have patience and even when people don;t so what you want, you just have to hope that you planted a seed somewhere that will hopefully take root. If you are accessible and approachable and you stow the self-righteousness, you may actually get somewhere.

    For the record, I’m neither anti nor pro as far as other parents are concerned. I feel like (mostly) everyone is doing the best they can, and I can’t and won’t hate on that.

    • whiteroses

      Bless you for this.

    • Lawrence Newman

      So you are neither pro or anti FGM. You are a good person …

  • RCCA

    “Boys have to be taught to wash under their foreskin when bathing – it doesn’t come naturally to them. This can only be done by the parents gently retracting the foreskin as far as it will easily go and washing under it at every bath time. Parents should ensure that their son is washing under it befor allowing him to bath or shower unsupervised.”

    “For the majority of men the foreskin has retracted behind the glans during erection and plays no part in penetration, contrary to the assertion implicit in this lie. Once full penetration is achieved the action of the foreskin depends on its original length and how loose it is.If the foreskin does not retract on, or before, penetration then it tends to stick to the walls of the vagina and the man virtually masturbates himself within his foreskin whilst giving no stimulus, and thus no sexual pleasure, to his partner.
    In these days of almost universal condom use, however, all this is irrelevant as the retracted foreskin is kept in place by the condom and can play no part in the action. Many uncircumcised men have noticed that the foreskin makes condom wearing much harder as it tends to bunch up and get in the way, or to push the condom back off the penis.”

    “Natural oils are secreted by Tyson’s Glands under the rim of the glans and from the inner surface of the foreskin. It is these oils alone which prevent the foreskin from sticking to the glans and allow it to retract freely. The oils are produced constantly and are thus replaced very quickly after washing.
    Smegma consists of surplus and used oil, dead skin cells, stale urine, stale semen and miscellaneous dirt, all of which have collected under the foreskin. Smegma is a ‘waste product’ and serves no useful purpose. If not cleaned away regularly it becomes hard and smelly. It is also a breeding ground for bacteria, which can lead to balanitis. Smegma has also been implicated in penile cancer.”

    “All nerves are specialized. There is nothing more or less special about those in the foreskin compared with those elsewhere in the body. The glans also contains nerves which don’t usually get fully stimulated when sex is experienced through the foreskin.”

    “The figure of 20,000 nerve endings has been admitted to have been made up by an anti-circumcision activist to make it look as if really serious damage is done by circumcision. There is no scientific evidence that there are even that number of nerve endings in the entire penis.Whatever the number, however, the nerves in the foreskin are almost exclusively related to protecting the foreskin itself from harm, just like those elsewhere in the skin. When the foreskin is removed these nerves become irrelevant.”

    http://www.circinfo.com/myths/myths_and_lies1.html

    • Lawrence Newman

      Most sexual sensation comes from the foreskin. the frenular delta is functionally the same as the glans clitoris. The foreskin is not a birth defect , it is a birthright. People who do this to their kids are child abusers, plain and simple.

    • Lawrence Newman

      Paraphimosis is cured via an ice pack and perseverance. This happened to me. Simple. The next best practice is to use stretching exercises. In a worst case scenario preputioplasty can be done. this isn’t sexually damaging; it’s truly therapeutic. Circumcision is NEVER necessary. No surprise considering it’s not a therapeutic medical procedure but an ancient egyptian slavemarking ritual and act of sexual oppression.

    • Lawrence Newman

      That site you linked to is full of spurious, erroneous propaganda–it’s a site belonging to the Gilgal society, who are a bunch of circumfetishists with links to child pornography.

      Copyright © 2004 The Gilgal Society

      http://www.circleaks.org/index.php?title=Gilgal_Society

    • RCCA

      You haven’t refuted the information they provided. That would be more useful. The fact is that you can’t refute the common sense knowledge about hygiene and the irrelevance of the foreskin to overall sexual sensation and satisfaction in intercourse, but base your argument on name calling. That’s a clear sign you have nothing except your agenda.

  • CMJ

    “I don’t even think about being circumcised. My life is not ruined.” – My husband. Who has a penis.

    • Lawrence Newman

      He doesn’t have a point of comparison. Most African victims of FGM say that same line. Do you agree with them? Why perform cosmetic surgery on your son for no reason ? Would you give a baby girl a boob job?

  • Kristen

    If I ever have a boy, it will definitely be a conversation between my husband and I. I feel vaguely in favor of leaving it be while my husband’s leans towards procircumscion. Neither of us feel strongly.

    • Lawrence Newman

      He’s pro-circumcision because he was circumcised at birth and knows no different. I’ve spoken to circumcised men who have admitted they wanted to get revenge for what was done to them and the son has been the target of their anger.

  • shorty_RN

    I came back to the comment section after 24 hours, and whoo-nelly, the crazies have arrived *grabs popcorn*

  • http://wtfihaveakid.blogspot.ca/ jendra_berri

    I just can’t get worked up about it. I didn’t do it because it bothered me too much to consider. I was worried about the risks and figured teaching good hygeine and sexual health would carry the benefits.
    HOWEVER
    It is not comparable to FGM, so let’s throw that argument away. A penis and a vagina have things in common in that they’re genetalia, but foreskin and labia/clitoris are different body parts.
    It’s also unlikely to damage the baby for all time psychologically, unless we’re willing to believe that on the whole all Jewish men are mentally and emotionally worse off and this is due to circumcision, since as a group they’re nearly all universally cut. That seems like an extreme argument.
    And I’m not one for fighting over small margins and I do believe in risk assessment. I didn’t do it. I’m not going to look down on those who did. And so long as we’re making allowances for religious reasons to circumcise boys, all boys are fair game to have it done as well because babies don’t know what religion they are.
    This strikes me as a matter of choice. I choose for my son to make the choice himself. Other parents choose to make the choice themselves. I’d save the rage and crusade for FGM, which has far more risk and is an undeniable issue of human suffering.

    • Lawrence Newman

      You’re getting confused between homologous structures and functionality. The glans penis and the glans clitoris are homologous, as they develop from the same tissue early on in pregnancy, but they are totally different in terms of innervation and thus sexual sensation. The man’s glans penis is barely sexually sensitive at all. I do hope you listen to a man on this, given that I have a penis and have experienced being intact and being circumcised. The glans is a prootopathic sensor, i.e. senses pain, pressure and temperature. There is a slight sensation round the corona but not much in the grand scheme of things.

      Well over 90% of the sexual pleasure comes from the foreskin. The closest thing a man has to a glans clitoris in terms of sexual sensation is the frenular delta/frenulum. Ask any intact man. Circumcision usually destroys all of that. The ridged band (the anteater bit at the end) has all the important stretch-receptors and is the equivalent to the vaginal sphincter. the foreskin sans frenular delta/ridged band is like the clitoral hood.

      What I had done to me was worse than type 2 FGM in terms of sexual damage. Clitoridectomy. Vaginal sphincter removed. Clitoral hood removed.

      People don’t want to hear the truth though, as it makes them feel uncomfortable. Also, men and boys are disposable and only women and girls can be victims in this gynecocentric society.

    • Lawrence Newman

      And thousands of boys die every year worldwide from circumcision. Over 100 die in the USA every yr alone. To claim FGM is worse is patently false. You want more proof? Ok, here you go:

      http://ulwaluko.co.za/Photos.html

  • CMJ

    Just wanted to drop some medical studies:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17419812

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3042320/

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18086100

    Conclusions: There’s no reduction in sexual sensitivity for circumcised men.

    • Lawrence Newman

      http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/03/prweb512999.htm

      There is no question circumcision dramatically reduces sexual pleasure.. It’s been scientifically established that the foreskin is highly erogenous tissue with thousands of stretch- and light-touch receptors. As someone who experienced a foreskin and who is now circumcised, it destroyed all light touch sensitivity for me and I have zero sensation.

      The reason those studies are reporting no loss in sensation is because they deliberately didn’t do touch tests on the tissue that’s present on intact men and excised on circumcised men. They didn’t even touch the ridged band, the inner foreskin, the frenulum and the frenular delta. They touched the shaft and the glans. The shaft isn’t affected in circumcision and isn’t erogenous tissue–it’s just normal skin. The glans penis is virtually sexually insensitive–it’s a protopathic sensor, i.e. pain, temperature and pressure. Touching those isn’t going to reveal a difference due to them not being sexually sensitive parts.

      The reason the British Journal of Urology has debunked those flawed studies is because they’ve taken into consideration all the erogenous tissue lost in circumcision. It’s been categorically proven that male circumcision issexually damaging genital mutilation. If you’re interested in more evidence, here you go:

      http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/info/foreskin.html

      http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/cold-taylor/

      http://www.norm.org/frenular.pdf

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAHGFx95D80

      “The glans penis is primarily innervated by free nerve endings and has primarily protopathic sensitivity [43]. Protopathic sensitivity refers to cruder, poorly localized feelings (including pain, some temperature sensations and certain perceptions of mechanical contact) [44]. In the glans penis, encapsulated end-organs are sparse, and found mainly along the glans corona and the frenulum [43]. The only portion of the body with less fine-touch discrimination than the glans penis is the heel of the foot [45].”

      Pretty much all sexual pleasure comes from the foreskin/frenulum. What I lost was equivalent in terms of sexual damage to having the glans clitoris cut off, the clitoral hood cut off and the vaginal sphincter destroyed. The problem is there’s so much disinformation out there on this issue, which isn’t helped by professional victim feminists who constantly peddle lies that cutting off the glans clitoris is exactly the same as cutting off the glans penis. This is a false hood, because, although they are homologous structures, they are entirely differently innervated, as that scientific paper I’ve just given you explains.

      Male circumcision is at least as bad as but usually far worse than type 2 FGM in terms of sexual sensation lost. This is indisputable when you look at the evidence objectively.

    • Lawrence Newman

      http://circleaks.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/does-male-circumcision-affect-sexual.html

      This explains how these papers you cite are bunkum and have been discredited. It’s interesting that they need to go to Africa to ‘prove’ circumcision doesn’t affect sexual pleasure. Why is that? Why not do it on European men? Because these African men probably don’t exist. I’ll guarantee you that if you asked for their names and locations, you’d be told to piss off.

      The science is settled. Circumcision removes the most sensitive parts of the penis and, as a consequence, dramatically reduces sexual pleasure, and for many men destroys it completely, as happened to me.

      You should be ashamed of yourself with your desperate attempt to make yourself feel better for mutilating your son. Take responsibility and admit you’re a child abuser.

      http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/03/prweb512999.htm

  • PenisesAreBornPerfect

    Food for thought: What about the potential for life-long psychological ramifications?
    There are many interesting studies and academic articles about these, and the many other negative effects of infant circumcision.

    Some of these include triggering and instigating long term violence, including but certainly not limited to, rape, rape culture, war-mongering, and more.

    The statistical correlation between rape and circumcision that was found in Norway has had such an impact as to lead the Health Minister there to recently announce his intention to submit a legal proposal to ban male circumcision.

    Some studies show that perinatal infant trauma often leads to self destructive adult behavior- the trauma of circumcision may be minimized in our culture, but it is undeniable when you hear that baby cry out in pain.

    What about the possibility of PTSD?

    How would these various issues affect us as a society?

    Might we be more likely to have a culture steeped in social violence?

    This article is interesting, but even more interesting are the numerous references at the bottom, most with full texts. http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/DOC/statement06.html#n12

    Also interesting-
    http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/boyle6/

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      I don’t really want to get into this anymore, but rapists who use the excuse that they committed the crime of rape against someone because they themselves were victimized due to their lack of foreskin is still a rapist and deserves no sympathy from anyone. Sorry, not sorry.

    • Lawrence Newman

      So why continue doing it to kids when it could cause more rape? It harms men AND women.

      I’m a circumcised man and have experienced being intact. The foreskin is where all the glorious feelings come from. The fact some ignorant quack did this to me without my consent makes me angry. It’s ruined my life in so many ways. If I went out and went postal on people because of it, you can sit there and lay all the responsibility at my door, but that would be simple-minded–society allowed this to happen to me. If a woman killed her rapist, people would have sympathy for her. I know I would.

    • Lawrence Newman

      Writes about ‘rape culture’. Defends routine infant genital mutilation.

      Holy hur dur, batman.

  • R Zhao

    Wow, I had no idea people were THIS passionate about the topic and reading through the comments has given me a lot to think about. I’m due with my first, a boy, next month. I’m American and most of my American friends and family seem fairly “pro” circumcision. I am living overseas, in a country where people are rarely cut, except for the Muslim minority or people with medical issues (such as my husband, who was circumcised at age 12–not a memory he looks back on fondly).

    I am torn. While one side of me sees it as unnecessary, another part worries about my son having issues like his dad and needing to be circumcised later in life. I also worry that if I don’t do it, he’ll be angry at me for being “different” and if I do do it, he’ll be upset that I “mutilated” his body. I’m not sure what the right answer is and my husband is pretty much on the fence.

    • whiteroses

      The answer is that you don’t worry about him being angry at you- because he might not be. Don’t borrow trouble! And you don’t worry about him looking different, because most people don’t care. Intactivists would have you believe that circumcision traumatizes babies forever and it’s tantamount to child abuse, but the whackadoos that have appeared on this thread don’t deserve to be listened to.
      People are going to give you a lot of crap about your parenting choices. The trick is to say “Oh, how interesting” and then do whatever you think is best. Because all these people who are telling you how awful you are won’t be raising your son. Whatever choice you make, it will be the right one. Ignore anyone who says otherwise.

    • Lawrence Newman

      Genital mutilation is never the right decision. No rape is acceptable.

    • Lawrence Newman

      Don’t have him mutilated. IT is an unnecessary non-medical procedure with no medical benefits. It IS child abuse. Just because it’s legal makes no difference. FGM was legal in the WEst until relatively recently and they did this to girls when they masturbated too much. It’s all rooted in sexual suppression.

      You know what the right answer is. If there is no reason to do it, don’t do it. It’s his body. I’ve grown up resenting my parents for allowing this to happen to me, even though they were duped when I was 14 into getting this done for ‘phimosis’. If they had made the conscious decision to do this to me when I was a baby, I would hate them. It’s the source of most sexual pleasure for a man, and contrary to popular myth, the functional equivalent of the glans clitoris in terms of sexual sensation is on the inner foreskin. It’s called the frenular delta. Do not listen to the uneducated people who say the glans clitoris is equal to the glans penis. It’s not, not in terms of functionality.

      Put it this way. It’s an ancient Egyptian slavemarking ritual. Do you think it’s good parenting to perform that on your son?

  • RW

    I left the decision squarely on my husband’s shoulders. He’s the one with the penis, and he was circumcised as a baby, so if he thought that was the best option for his son, who am I to judge? But to my surprise, he wasn’t overly passionate about the decision, and since he decided it was an unnecessary procedure we just didn’t have it done.

    I’m sure there was a rational reason for it being done back in the days of early Judaism (what with being a desert people, limited water and all that) but there isn’t one now, so I don’t think cosmetic modification is appropriate.

  • K

    I am a long way from having babies and this isn’t something I feel very strongly about. My husband, however, feels really strongly about it. Uncircumcised himself, he is really strongly opposed to it. He is extremely laid back about most things but this is one he gets really upset about (he’s generally a very live and let live person and I think he would still say he is fine with people doing it for religious reasons, he objects to the mainstreaming of it into medicine).

    I find the “irreversibility” argument pretty convincing – if you want to be circumcised later in life, it sucks a bit but is ultimately perfectly possible, unlike growing a new foreskin. On sort of the same note I would also say I haven’t met or heard of anyone who is really mad at their parents for not circumcising them, but there are definitely people who are really mad (fairly or not) at their parents for doing it.

    We are always gambling when we make decisions for our children and we have to do it anyway and hope for the best, but in this one it seems to me personally, even if my husband didn’t care one way or the other, that small gains in terms of potential HIV transmission & easier hygiene are not worth the risk of my kid potentially some day coming to believe that I mutilated him for no good reason.

    That said, I’m not going to get up in anyone’s face about their decisions, because parenting is all about making irreversible invasive decisions about your childrens’ lives and bodies, and we all just have to do out best based on the information available to us.

    • Lawrence Newman

      So you’re not going to get outraged about child abuse? So you’d be silent if a parent had sex with their baby? This is something you should be angry about. It’s rape. It’s mutilation. It’s a human rights abuse. No, it’s not a trivial piece of skin; it’s the source of virtually all of a man’s sexual pleasure.

      Take it from me–I experienced a foreskin so I know both states. Circumcision ruins the penis. And it’s not just men who suffer–intact men make better lovers, have less erectile problems and are just more intimate in bed.

  • Bemused

    I think it’s mutilation. It’s his penis not yours , his decision not yours. No medical necessity for it.

  • Bemused

    And it isn’t the norm here in the uk thank goodness. When my kids are 18 they can do whatever they like, tattoos, piercings, genital modifying. Til then, it’s not up to me to decide for them. It is SO weird to me, how “normal” chopping the end off a baby’s penis is in the USA. As an Ady female, my husband is intact. His penis is clean and healthy and a pleasure to handle. I only saw one circumcised one in my life- no “room for manoeuvre” on his skin- he was lapsed Jewish and hated his parents for doing it……

  • Asia Woodley

    Well we didn’t do it because we simply felt it wasn’t our decision. It is his. That is all.

  • M-C

    My baby boy, and all baby boys, are born perfect. No need for a cosmetic surgery on their genitals. :)

  • Helena Inviere

    Circumcision spreads HIV faster, and that is why it is being promoted in Africa. The researchers conducting those studies rigged them – there was a recovery period for the cut men, and they got condoms and sex ed which the control group did not.

    These researchers (particularly Johns Hopkins U.) have a history of unethical surgical experiments on people in third-world populations, including deliberately spreading disease among ‘undesirables.’ The high rate of circumcision in Africa (80% in most of the continent) caused AIDS to spread faster, and the population-control nuts at the WHO and the Gates Foundation are counting on that. This is a eugenics program, not a public health program.

    And even if there were benefits, you are still talking about a human rights violation that is causing FGM to spread.

    • Lawrence Newman

      Thank you. Those trials were not controlled, were unethical and were methodologically absurd. There is zero evidence it reduces HIV rate, just like there’s zero evidence for their previous claims that it cures epilepsy and prevents tuberculosis. It’s a post hoc rationalisation.

      It’s amazing more people can’t see that this is a human rights abuse .Yet more evidence so many people don’t see men and boys as people.

    • Lawrence Newman

      I agree that circumcision may actually cause an HIV explosion. The men will have a false sense of security and will be less likely to wear condoms. Also, circumcised men are less likely to wear condoms because they have little to no feeling in their penis to begin with.

      Those HIV trials were absurd and prove that there’s a sinister agenda by American doctors. All pro-circ quacks.

      Have a lookout for a particularly loathsome character called Brian Morris, a cell biologist who was a member of the Gilgal society. He wants all baby boys to be mutilated because he is a homosexual circumfetishist.

  • Lawrence Newman

    The reason you’ve never heard a man complain is because you don’t listen when they do. I was circumcised by a quack when I was 14, duped into unnecessary surgery without my informed consent. It ruined by life because it destroyed my capacity for sexual pleasure. But I experienced a foreskin and so have a point of comparison. The people on here saying FGM isn’t comparable to MGM are uneducated. There’s a common misconception that the glans clitoris is the exact same as the glans penis. This is false. They are homologous structures but they are entirely different in terms of innervation/function. The equivalent in terms of sexual sensation for a man to the glans clitoris, is the frenulum/frenular delta, most/all of which is excised during the circumcision. The ridged band is the equivalent to the vaginal sphincter. And the foreskin sans frenular delta/ridged band is like the clitoral hood. What I had done to me removed all of those and is worse in terms of sexual damage than type 2 FGM.

    But many people won’t take what I say seriously, because they are acculturated to see it as a benign procedure, when it is not. It shares a similar history to FGM. It is sexual suppression, and the history books are clear about this–it was always about diminishing the male sexual experience and was never a therapeutic medical procedure. It was adopted by the West in prudish Victorian times to ‘cure’ masturbation and control male sexuality. The problem is, men rarely complain about this because it’s the culture, just like most victims of FGM in AFrica don’t complain.

    So many on this page lack reasoning skills and objectivity on this issue. Anyone who makes legitimate points about how barbaric it is, are mocked. This is a societal sickness that is being bolstered by the American medical community because it makes a fortune out of performing the operations and selling the foreskin organs to big pharma for research purposes and for the manufacture of face creams. Yes that cream you put on your face is the result of baby boys being raped.

    For those who think circumcision AKA genital mutilation isn’t a problem, why not educate yourself and read this book. 50 personal accounts of men who’re honest and brave enough to share how circumcision ruined their sex lives, broke their spirit and caused them years of anxiety and depression. But you’ll need to actually see men and boys as people to be able to understand, so quite a few people on this page may as well not bother.

    http://www.amazon.com/Unspeakable-Mutilations-Circumcised-Men-Speak/dp/1495266575/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404807116&sr=8-1&keywords=unspeakable+mutilations

    OR listen to the men who’ve been stupid enough to be duped into this as adults:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAHGFx95D80&list=PLrQ2OlnKzpUOucDd0qFB-ER_vp1KL–kl&index=4

  • FrederickRhodes

    A mother would have to be a wicked bitch, or just an ignorant dumb-ass monster, to want to cut off her son’s healthy functioning prepuce, knowing of the prepuce’s neurological sexual functions, and that circumcision can be used in different forms for controlling the child’s future sexual functions or dysfunctions whatever the monster mother chooses.

    • Lawrence Newman

      I genuinely think that some of these women are simply ignorant. they’re having sex with circumcised men and they assume that because these men don’t complain and can achieve erections, that everything is okay. It’s not. they fail to understand how this phenomenon works. The child gets mutilated as a baby, he has no point of comparison and he has to sleepwalk his way through life not knowing any different. If he is having issues, he keeps it to himself. The same happens in cultures that cut women.

      You’re right though, that the function of the prepuce and exquisite sensations of it are known. The American medical establishment is politically/financially/culturally motivated on this and everything they say is in contradiction with the established science. It’s amazing how such a modern society in so many respects, is so primitive in other respects. This is why so many people look down on Americans as dumb hicks. It’s astonishing that they’re doing this and many don’t even see that’s it’s a form of rape and a sex crime. They can’t see it’s exactly the same as FGM.

    • Lawrence Newman

      Give it 2 seconds and you’ll have a couple of replies from defensive mothers who’ve done this to their sons and can’t handle the truth about the sexual devastation they’ve caused them. Very few women will admit they are wrong, especially on this. They’re right because they ‘feel’ it. Fuck established cell biology. Fuck science.

  • Lawrence Newman

    http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/maimonides/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_male_circumcision#Male_circumcision_to_prevent_masturbation

    It’s not even debatable. The history of male circumcision is rooted in sexual oppression, just like FGM. Anyone who denies this, denies established fact.

  • Lawrence Newman

    To all the heartless, idiotic mothers on here who don’t see the big deal about genital mutilation:

    How would you feel if this was your son?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAHGFx95D80&list=PLrQ2OlnKzpUOucDd0qFB-ER_vp1KL–kl&index=4

  • Lawrence Newman

    It boils down to this. If you genitally mutilated your son when he was born, you failed to protect him, failed in your duty of care and you are thus a very bad mother. I just pray that foreskin regeneration technology becomes possible in the lifetime of the kids whose mothers post here, because then they will discover what their mothers allowed to be raped from their defenceless bodies.

  • Lawrence Newman

    If parents can cut the foreskin off his/her baby boy, is the baby boy entitled to grow up and cut the genitals of his parents? If not, why not?

  • Lawrence Newman

    http://www.foregen.org/news/an-interview-with-nickolas-kusturis-a-major-foregen-contributor/

    For those who say circumcision doesn’t kill sexual pleasure …..

    You’ve been debunked.

  • Jenkins

    I would personally rather not have a scar on my penis. I would like to know for sure what a frenulum felt like to have. I can see very plainly the difference between my glans and an intact man’s, and to say that a dry, prune like surface could possibly feel anything similar to a moist, pink one is just asinine. Did i lose something due to a choice that i didnt make? You cannot argue i didnt. A part of me is gone, and the rest is permanently altered. Can i say what exactly the impact on me was? No, not physically. It did, however, condemn me to a lifetime of wondering. Also, the scar is very uncomfortable, and unsightly. Beyond medical need, it is just wrong to do that to a person. I cannot imagine an amount of flesh that would be acceptable to take from a childs body, which location to take it from, and for what reason barring medical need….especially from his or her genitals.