Father Shoots Teen Boy Found In Daughter’s Bedroom And This Wasn’t Self-Defense, It Was Bad Judgment

Father Shoots Teen Found In Daughters BedroomThis entire case is one of bad judgement, all around. I’m not a fan of people keeping guns in their homes. I understand there are many responsible gun owners in the world and that the majority of parents wouldn’t react like this father did, but I can’t help but think if there was no gun, a 17-year-old wouldn’t be dead this morning. 17-year old Johran McCormick was shot inside a Spring-area home in Texas at around two a.m. yesterday morning. A father was awakened by one of his four children (and in the home there was a kid as young as four-years-old) alerting him to the fact there was a man in the house, in the 16-year-old daughter’s bedroom. The father, who is confined to a wheelchair, crawled to his daughter’s room and confronted Johran, who was hiding under the bed.

You guys see where this is going right?

The daughter denied knowing Johran, an altercation between the father and Johran occurred, Johran raised his hands as if to reach for something, and the father shot him. Johran died at the scene. Later the daughter admitted she did know him and invited him in.

The case will go to the grand jury and speculation has started that this will be a case of self-defense.

I can understand a dad wanting to protect his family, especially when he thinks there is some strange guy in his daughter’s bedroom. I’m sure he wishes he just would have called 911 and let the police handle it. The daughter and Johran being in her bedroom in the middle of the night, I’m assuming doing what all teenagers are apt to do, wasn’t the smartest idea but I think most of us can remember what it was like being that age and I don’t think kids sneaking into bedrooms in the middle of the night is that rare of an occurrence. The daughter lying? Bad bad move, especially if she saw her father had a gun.

This is just one of those cases where you wish there was a swayback machine and the outcome would have been different. If dads all over the world shot boys they found in their daughter’s bedrooms there wouldn’t be any teen boys left in the world. The girl was dumb to lie, but I’m sure she was terrified of getting in trouble and who knows what the situation with her parents was like? It’s all just sad and a shame and I feel so bad for the family of Johran.

This all being said, if one of my kids woke me up in the middle of the night to say some strange guy was in their older sibling’s bedroom if I had a gun I don’t know what I’d do either. It sounds like Johran was hiding under the bed and it was probably hard for the dad to see how old he was and my first thought would probably be that someone was raping my kid. I’d like to think I would just call the cops and wait for them to show up but truthfully I don’t know.

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    • Kendra

      Maybe she’s a good actress or something, but you would think you’d be able to tell what was going on by the daughter’s reaction. If she was being attacked, you would assume she would flea the room immediately when her dad came in. This is definitely a case of bad judgment. As someone who does own guns and keep them in my home, I feel that this is tragic, but very, very preventable. In my state, you can’t legally shoot someone in your home unless they also have a weapon AND are pointing it at you. If you are a responsible gun owner (again, at least in my state), you should be aware of those laws. The decision to shoot should absolutely never be a rush to judgment, as it was in this story. The correct thing to do would be to call the police first, and only approach the subject if absolutely necessary.

      • Guest

        This is exactly what I was thinking. If there was really a strange dude in her room she’d be running or screaming or something. I’d think by her reaction dad should be able to get an idea of what is going on. I still can’t believe she claimed not knowing him (dumbest thing ever) but as a parent you think he’d be like “Really? Then why is he under your bed? How did he get here? Wtf?” I understand though that maybe he didn’t want to tell the kid to come out with his hands up since the guy was crawling around on the floor out of his wheelchair which would have given him the upper hand (if he were an actual criminal). I just think he probably panicked and made a quick decision that he is surely regretting immensely at this point.
        Also, while I support people being reasonable about shooting someone in their homes…I can’t believe someone would have to wait for a person who broke into their house (dif situation then this obviously) to point a weapon at them. That just seems to be asking for trouble. Such a tricky situation all the way around.

      • pixie

        I actually missed that he was on the ground, though I almost wonder as to why he didn’t tell one of the other children or his wife to get his chair while he kept the kid under the bed.

      • Paul White

        Because it would have taken too long? Because it would be awkward to get into the room in it? We don’t know. That may come out during an investigation, but there’s legitimate reasons tom ake that call.

      • pixie

        I was just wondering about it. None of us know the layout of the house, and I wasn’t aware that the kid wasn’t under the bed as I had originally believed from reading this. I am understanding the father’s position more and more, now, as people respond to my comments.

      • airbones

        My husband is a tactical trainer and the way they train people to go in to situations where there is a potential intruder/attacker is on the ground so that they are out of the line of vision. Just some food for thought.

      • pixie

        I can see that, though without knowing how it exactly went down, there might have been a chance that the boy already knew the father had been alerted (if there was a lot of noise or something). Chances are he wasn’t being sneaky about entering his daughters room, since the news reports say he went in and started asking questions.

      • Kendra

        Oh, I agree. When my husband told me that was the law (because he is the responsible gun owner), I told him that’s fine but if I’m by myself with my daughter, I’m not waiting for you to point the gun at me. I don’t honestly think any jury would convict a woman home alone with a toddler for shooting a man intruding into the home with a weapon. Even if it IS illegal here.

      • Roderick2011

        Guest: I just think he probably panicked and made a quick decision that he is surely regretting immensely at this point.

        But it wasn’t a quick decision if he took the time to ask his daughter if she knew the boyfriend.
        Then he comes up with another lie that he held the gun on the kid and while doing so they argued.

        What did they argue about?

        Then the father stated that the boyfriend made a move on him-reaching for something in his pockets which is a lie.

        Something that the boyfriend said during the argument set off the father.

        Maybe the boyfriend told some unpleasant truths about the daughter that the father didn’t want to hear.

      • keelhaulrose

        While I totally agree the daughter didn’t act like a victim, I’ll also say that expecting dad to think like a psychologist at two in the morning after being woken up with the news there was a strange man in the house while this daughter was saying she didn’t know the boy might be a little much.
        It’s like when police tell a driver they would have done better to just hit whoever cut them off instead of swerving and hitting an unrelated car because then it’d be the fault of the one who cut you off and not you. Yeah, good advice later, but is anyone really thinking “who is going to be at fault and what will my insurance say?” when they’re in the midst of the situation?

      • Kendra

        I see what you’re saying, but I guess from my perspective (which could be because of the hours and hours of Law and Order SVU I’ve watched), that would jump out at me. Especially because she’s a teenaged girl and we all know teenagers are sneaky. So, I think you have to be a little suspicious before you start pointing guns. That’s really all I was trying to say, I think. :)

      • keelhaulrose

        I get teenagers are sneaky liars, but I doubt he was focused much on anything but the unknown man in his daughter’s room. I’m surprised he took the time to ask if she knew the boy.

      • Guest

        This is what I thought, but I also feel like if he had time to ask her if she knew him he had time to think this through a bit more or to inquire more.

      • keelhaulrose

        I am by no means excusing what he did, I think if you have a kid at the mercy of your gun you have the responsibility to not shoot unless the situation changes. However I can also see where a dad might have a visceral reaction to finding a rapist in their teenage daughter’s room, and with a gun that split second reaction could end in tragedy. I think he should have ensured control of the situation, then asked when he made sure she was safe and the immediate danger had passed, but it’s really easy for me to say what he should have done while sitting on my couch, seeing both my daughters happy and safe. I think the majority of the blame in the situation lies with the daughter. Had she just admitted it was her boyfriend the situation would have, most likely, ended much differently. As much as many dads joke about shooting their teenage daughter’s boyfriends very few would actually do it.

    • Jell

      I would put equal blame for this on father and daughter. Dad is carrying a GUN. You don’t point a gun at someone unless you are ready to use it and for her to lie in that moment– how did she think that would turn out?
      For the father I have no sympathy. He shot a boy who had no means of defense and no weapon. He was not being directly threatened and neither was his daughter in the moment of the shooting.
      Yes in some places it’s legal to shoot someone in self-defense for a home invasion even if they are not directly threatening your life. I have no idea what the law says in this case put the father and daughter have blood on their hands as far as I’m concerned.

    • pixie

      That is just…awful.
      I understand wanting to protect your family, but I do hope it doesn’t go through as self defence. To me, at least, there were other things that could have been done. Like get the daughter out of the room first to make sure she’s safe. If Johran was hiding under the bed, the father clearly had the upper hand, especially with a gun, and could have ordered him to get out from where he was and keep his hands in the air. Interrogate him once he saw how young he was. Call the cops (or get one of the other kids to do it). Tie him up, maybe.

      I get that in the moment, emotions and adrenaline are running high, but he didn’t have to shoot him. The daughter sneaking him Johran in in the first place was a dumb teenage move, but her lying was a (literally) fatal mistake. She might not have thought her dad would shoot, but he was pissed and had a gun. And like I said, I don’t think it should be able to go through as self-defence. Maybe that’s because I’m not really into the whole “stand your ground” thing, but up here in Canada, you can only claim self defence if you only use the required amount of force to stop the person. If someone else has a gun and is threatening you or a loved one, then yeah, shooting first probably wouldn’t be contested. But shooting an unarmed (presumably) teenager hiding from parents? No, that’s excessive.

      • Kendra

        Unless this particular court system is a complete failure, there is no way this will be considered self-defense.

      • cabinfever

        We’re talking about Texas, where you can legally shoot someone for trespassing on your property. I don’t see this guy getting convicted of anything.

      • pixie

        I really hope you’re right.

      • MM

        The wheelchairbound father crawled into his daughters room, the young man was ablebodied. The father never had the upper hand!

      • pixie

        Ok, so I missed that part. He STILL had the gun, though.

      • Véronique Houde

        But even with a gun, the guy under the bed could get out from under the bed a lot quicker than the father could have done anything had he not had a gun. He probably got scared, and after having been told by the daughter that he was a stranger, felt like his family’s life was in danger and shot. I honestly understand his position.

      • pixie

        Yeah, I do understand that he probably got scared and wanted to protect his family. I get that, I really do, and it’s all well and dandy that we can speculate what he could have or should have done (just like I did) after the fact, but I still think that he had a bit of a superior position because he had a gun. Not as much of an upper hand as I originally thought, but the kid was under the bed and probably in a cramped position.

      • wonderstruck

        He was not under the bed when the dad shot him – if you read the news article on it, the dad called 911 and told the guy to put his hands up and wait for police. The guy reached for something, the dad thought he was going for a gun and shot him. I fully blame the daughter – your dad is calling 911 and pointing a gun at your boyfriend, and you claim to not know him?!

      • pixie

        Yep. I only had time to read this particular article before running off to class, so I’m now leaning towards the the daughter is more at fault than the father.

      • Paul White

        Yeah.
        And honestly, as someone who has been assaulted and been in a few fights?

        I’m *never* going to wait for someone to make contact before I react, so I can sympathize. I’m going to react as quickly as I can early on–while they’re advancing on me–rather than wait for them to hit me.

      • Paul White

        So he’s supposed to let the kid beat on him?
        The kid advanced and reached into his pocket. It sucks but his reaction is understandable and doesn’t warrant criminal prosecution.

        He’d called 911, and the kid was out from under the bed when shot. Apparently, he’d dropped his hands (towards his pockets or not–different stories say different things) and was advancign on the father. The dad didn’t shoot him while he was under the bed.

      • pixie

        No, but I was under the impression (from this article) that he was still under the bed and maybe looked like he reached for something while adjusting himself.
        Now that it seems like he wasn’t under the bed (though there’s still conflicting stories), then I am feeling more sympathetic. Not excusing it, but understanding a whole lot more.

      • Roderick2011

        Why did he crawl into her room believing that there was a possible intruder in her room????

    • K.

      …Am I the only one who finds it weird that the father was reasonable enough to ask the daughter if she knew the guy, and THEN took out the gun and shot him?

      Seems more reasonable if he just ran in there and shot the guy immediately ASSUMING he was an intruder raping his daughter (that’s what *I* would have done, frankly), as opposed to having the wherewithal to ask, “gee, are you a rapist?” first. I mean, fine–people do different things in unlikely situations, but it just sounds weird.

      • keelhaulrose

        I will say that the circumstances are different than normal because of his physical condition. It would probably be very hard for him to burst into a room with the gun already drawn.
        And I can also see where he would ask the question. If he was a rapist that’s one thing, he’s there without permission and causing physical harm to a member of my family. I don’t have a gun, but you can bet I’d beat the shit out of any man I caught in that situation. However if it’s my daughter’s boyfriend it really changes the circumstance. While I sure won’t welcome him with open arms, I would recognize my daughter is just as responsible for the situation, and it warrants tons of punishment, but none of it physical.

      • K.

        Like I said–it’s easy to be monday morning quarterback, but impossible to know what it was actually like in the moment, so I’m not disagreeing with his actions per se; I just found it an odd moment.

      • wonderstruck

        No, I don’t find it weird. Frankly, I find it weird that if there was a boy in your teen daughter’s room you would assume he was a rapist and shoot him before asking any questions.

      • K.

        Really? Wow, you and I grew up differently.

      • Guest

        I was going to say…I would assume my kid let him in first..it would take a lot for me to believe a rapist broke into a house full of people and knew my daughter’s room. Also that she wasn’t freaking out at all… just a hot mess.

      • wonderstruck

        I guess so. I never snuck a boy in my room but I know a lot of girls who did – hopefully your daughter never does that, since it sounds like it would end with you in jail and a young boy dead.

    • Shadow Guest

      What would you do while you waited for the police to get there, not knowing if this “man in the house” was armed or not? If he had been dangerous (which apparently this kid was not) the dad could not just ask him to sit quietly on the couch until the police got there, this guy could have fought back.
      I can’t help but wonder what the headlines would say if the boy was not a teenager but instead a dangerous man with intent to harm the family who was caught mid-assault. People might be saying, “if only the father had some means to protect his family…”
      Two sides to each coin I suppose.

      • Roderick2011

        What would you do while you waited for the police to get there, not knowing if this “man in the house” was armed or not? If he had been dangerous (which apparently this kid was not) the dad could not just ask him to sit quietly on the couch until the police got there, this guy could have fought back.

        But he waited long enough to ask his daughter if she knew him?

        I don’t believe that lie at all. It’s just a cover story because if this father thought that this kid was a thief he would have shot him onsight and not asked who he was or why he was there.

        I bet this isn’t the first time the kid was caught with his daughter and that’s why they argued.

        There is a lot that the father and daughter are leaving out intentionally, but most teenagers are horrible at keeping secrets so the truth will come out sooner or later.

    • Tinyfaeri

      I wish the teen hadn’t been shot, and it’s a tragedy that he’s dead. I also think everyone’s looking at this as if the father could have walked into the room with a baseball bat instead of crawling in (if he’s in a wheelchair, he isn’t going to be running anywhere) with his gun. If I were wheelchair bound, I’d be more likely to carry a gun to investigate something in my house, too, especially if I couldn’t get to my chair in time, or thought my daughter was being attacked so didn’t bother to do so in the heat of the moment. And what even-footed altercation can an able-bodied teenage boy have with a man stuck crawling on the floor? At that point there is much more of an argument for self defense than there would have been otherwise. Not saying it’s right what happened, just that it’s not as simple as a man shooting a teenage boy, and there are a lot of details we don’t know. We do know that he’s normally in a wheelchair, and crawled to get to her room after being awoken in the middle of the night by another panicked daughter – that does change some things.

      • Paul White

        baseball bats aren’t exactly non-lethal objects either–say I cracked someone on the head with one because they started towards me, there is a good chance of permanent damage or death.

      • rrlo

        I agree that it is definitely not an open and shut case at all.

        However, I still would like to see some repercussion for someone who shot and killed an unarmed and ultimately harmless young man.

        In a weird way it reminds me of the cheese sandwich thing from a couple of weeks back. A dad accidentally left a cheese sandwich in his daughters pocket and faced some consequences – because of a remote possibility of the sandwich harming someone.

        In this case, a dad mistakenly shot and killed a young man – and he can just walk a way from it. It just doesn’t sit well with me. Yes it was a mistake and I really don’t know what I would have done – I can certainly identify with it. But can you make a mistake that results in someone’s death and just walk away from it? Should that be allowed? I don’t know the answer….

      • Tinyfaeri

        According to what’s above, there was an altercation. I don’t know how helpless an able-bodied 17 year old boy is against a man who requires a wheelchair and is on the floor – in a straight fight, my money would be on the teen because he has the physical advantage. It’s not like the kid was over studying with his daughter at 3 in the afternoon and he walked into the room and shot him. It was the middle of the night, he needs a wheelchair and didn’t have it so he was crawling on the floor, he was woken up by another daughter in a panic that there was a man in his 16 year old’s room, etc. Like I said, there are a lot of facts missing from this, and I don’t think the fact that the father was not able-bodied can be taken out of the equation.

      • rrlo

        From the article it sounds like there was an argument. I don’t think the 17 year old was helpless – he did turn out to be harmless though.

        I totally see the extenuating circumstances here. Yet, I still can’t agree that there are no actual punishment for killing someone. It was a life that he took – fearful or not. I can’t buy into the argument that mistakenly fearing for your life is an excuse for murder.

      • Claire

        But the only reason he was “mistakenly” fearing for his life is because his daughter LIED. If the outcome was that she was telling the truth and the boy really was a rapist, would you feel the same? The father only had the word of his own daughter to go on at that point and he thought she was in danger because she basically said she was.

        If I shoved an authentic looking gun in your face and threatened to harm you, only to tell the police later, “Oh, it was a plastic gun!” They would still arrest me because I had indicated it was authentic and you had no way of knowing. They wouldn’t just drop the charges because you mistakenly thought I would shoot you.

      • JLH1986

        In certain contexts…yes it should. If this boy really was a stranger and had broken into the house was hiding under his daughters bed, was asked to stay there with his hands up until police arrived and this boy then reached into his pocket and was killed most people would be saying he deserved it for not listening when a gun was pointed at him. When the man fired the gun (based on the information we have been given) this is exactly what he thought was happening and he chose to defend himself and his family. It’s just tragic that it all could have been (hopefully) stopped with a simple “dad it’s my boyfriend I’m sorry.”

        As an aside if someone is pointing a gun at me I’m either going to pass out or piss on myself, no way could I be brave enough to move.

      • rrlo

        See even in the scenario you described I would still say that the man should face some consequences for killing someone.

        I live in Canada (in Toronto) and our gun laws and culture are completely different from that of US South – so my perspective is never going to match that of Texas.

        ETA: Although I am sure there are many Canadians who will feel differently than I do.

      • pixie

        My Canadian side is definitely coming out strong with this article.

      • http://wtfihaveakid.blogspot.ca/ jendra_berri

        As a Canadian, I totally don’t get gun culture. But the fact the man is disabled and of the belief at the time the boy broke into the house to assault his daughter, which was confirmed by the daughter when she said she didn’t know him, and then the boy reached down after being told to keep his hands up till the cops arrived… yeah. I can see it happening.
        The poor boy in this case, his girlfriend betraying him like that and being shot just for teenage hijinks. But I can’t blame the dad, who must’ve been shitting himself.

      • rrlo

        I just can’t get over the fact that this poor boy died and there will likely be no “consequences”.

        I am not saying that the father should go to prison for life – however, I wish there was a law against (and seems like there may not be in Texas) shooting and killing someone who was ultimately harmless, even though you were fearful for your life.

        Maybe if there was, people would exercise more judgement and caution when shooting someone…?

      • http://wtfihaveakid.blogspot.ca/ jendra_berri

        I would mind seeing some consequences for the daughter, actually. Her lies directly contributed to her boyfriend’s death.

      • Shadow Guest

        You’re not supposed to take the chance that the person may or may not be harmless. There is no way to know this until it’s too late. If they’re in your home, they’re not there to clean the kitchen or be the toothfairy, they’re there to do some harm. If it comes down to the “unknown” guy in my teenage daughter’s bed or my family, my family is not going to be the ones going down.
        The fault is on the daughter, she should have fessed up. Kid would be alive if she had. The father was doing his job as a provider and protecter.

      • rrlo

        Well in this case the guy was there to have sex with his teenage girlfriend – so obviously there are other reasons why someone can be in a house other than to clean the kitchen or be the tooth-fairy.

        This is one of those situations that no matter how much we “discuss”, we’re not going to see it the same way. When in doubt, shoot someone – is not the general philosophy I am comfortable with.

      • Claire

        So if someone ran at me with what looked like a genuine knife and I shot and killed them, only to find out later that the knife was a rubber movie prop, you think I should go to jail?

      • mannakay

        And by the same logic, if somebody came after you with a real knife, give them the benefit of a doubt and allow them to harm and/or kill you before you defend yourself. Um… no. Perception is reality, and if I’m afraid either myself or my children are in immediate danger, eff yes I will shoot somebody.

      • pixie

        Yeah, I’m blaming the father less and less when I think about it, though I do think (and of course this makes no difference now, since hindsight is 20/20) that he could have just shot the boy in the shoulder or the arm that he was reaching with and that would have been sufficient.

        The one I feel the worst for though, is definitely the boy.

      • Paul White

        That really highlights a lack of knowledge about how guns *work* though, particularly under stress. I’ve done a little shooting under (simulated) stress and my groups at 5 yards were about paper-plate sized. Shooting center of mass is the best idea because you’re less likely to miss.

      • rrlo

        Yeah, I don’t think I’ll every see eye to eye with some of the US folks on this one. And I am fine with that.

        Although I am not familiar with the laws in Canada – If this happened in Canada – the father would likely face some prison time

      • pixie

        Yes I do remember that!
        Or at least something very similar, though it’s a totally different situation and I think it was dumb that he got in trouble. If it’s the one I’m thinking of, he got in trouble because one of his would-be robbers sued him (or at least tried to).

      • rrlo

        Oh yeah, that case was different – and I agree totally stupid. I was thinking that there are laws in Canada that could get you into trouble even if you attack someone who robbed you.

      • Paul White

        You can feel this way but I entirely disagree and I’m glad our legal system isn’t set up that way.

        If someone does actually break in intending harm, and they die while I’m trying to stop it? That’s on them as far as I’m concerned. Don’t want to take that chance? Don’t break into my house and threaten my family.

      • rrlo

        That’s cool. We can certainly agree to disagree. This is one of those issues that experience, laws, culture and circumstance will dictate how one feels about it.

      • Shadow Guest

        Clearly you’ve had training and education on the topic – you sound like you’re reading straight from the mythical “CCW Rule Book: When you Can and Cannot Defend Yourself in Your Own Home”
        Also, there are hunting stickers all over BF’s truck outside, the neighbors and our families/friends are aware that we are both card-carrying members, and we have a huge dog; if an intruder lacks enough brain power to STILL choose to break in, then their poor judgement is on them, not us.

      • Larkin

        Yeah, but as far as Dad was concerned this was someone who had forcibly broken into his home and was possibly raping his daughter (she kept claiming she didn’t know who he was). According to additional articles, he had called the police and told the kid to wait with his hands up… and the kid reached for his pockets instead. That’s when he shot him. And Dad is disabled and unable to do much of anything if this presumably dangerous intruder/rapist makes any sudden moves.

        I’m not a fan of guns or shooting people either, but I feel like Dad was just doing what any parent would have done to defend their kids.

    • Sarah Penny

      I will bet you all the money in my pockets that that girl was not raised in a sex positive environment.

      • blh

        Oh shut up. Most parents wouldn’t be cool with their kids bf sneaking in in the middle of the night. Let’s blame the parents BC the dumb girl lied.

      • Sarah Penny

        It’s not normal for a teenager to lie in that scenario. It’s just not. There have to be reasons – societal, familial, etc.

    • http://wtfihaveakid.blogspot.ca/ jendra_berri

      I don’t know that I blame the dad here. The boy did not deserve to die or be shot, but I think the daughter is the most to blame.
      Consider: You are woken up at night by one of your small children who tells you there is a man in your daughter’s bedroom. You cannot walk, so you crawl into the room (Not using your wheelchair for reasons that surely are good ones. I can’t think of why you’d want to face an intruder on the ground, unable to get up, but he’s the disabled person and it’s his home). You bring your gun, because presumably facing intruders who are potentially attacking your daughter is why you own a gun in the first place.
      You come face to face with the man, who is able-bodied, and your daughter swears she doesn’t know him. You see the intruder reach for something, and because you won’t be able to do shit if he has a gun too because he has far more mobility than you have, you fire. You’re tired and alert at the same time because you just got up to face an emergency and this whole thing is freaking you out.

      It’s not his fault. It’s a damn tragedy, but the daughter is to blame. Had she come clean and faced the music, this guy would likely be alive. When your dad is pointing a gun at your boyfriend and thinks he’s a rapist intruder, you don’t keep lying. That’s some selfish shit right there. 16 is old enough to know better.
      And let’s be serious. What teenage girl would let her dad go on pointing a gun at her boyfriend like that? “No, dad! Don’t shoot! I love him! I’m sorry!” That’s what you’d expect from a teenager who was breaking the rules, not, “I don’t know him! I don’t know him!”
      I hate guns, but I’m not going to hate on a man who was likely disoriented, probably fearful and panicking.

      • wonderstruck

        Completely agree with everything you said.

      • Taxes Make Kittens Cry

        Yea, this boy went into the bedroom thinking he’s gonna get lucky…

        We’ll need to know more about what/how this boy “raised his hands as if to reach for something…” I’m gonna give the father the benefit of the doubt and assume it was an aggressive act that prompted him to pull the trigger.

        And I completely disagree about having a gun in your home in this situation. This father is disabled and cannot physically defend his loved ones the way a non-disabled father can. He’s precisely the type of person who can justify owning a gun.

        Ultimately, you have to look at it from the father’s perspective. Father is disabled, confined to a wheelchair. A young man, who’s at a physical advantage over you, is in your 16 yr old daughter’s room, daughter claims she doesn’t know him, young man raises his hands (presumably in an aggressive manner). I think shooting him is completely justified.

        Now, if it turns out the young man was raising his hands to surrender and the father shot out of anger… obviously, that’s murder.

      • Paul White

        How would you prove/disprove that though? unless the whole thing is on video.

      • Shadow Guest

        It’s like you’re reading from the “CCW Rule Book: When you Can and Cannot Defend Yourself”
        love it

    • Nichole

      This article is all over the place, especially if you read the original article it links to. The father had his gun held on a man he believed was an intruder in his home in the middle of the night, after his daughter indicated that she didn’t know him he called 911 and told the guy to wait for the police with his hands in the air. Instead an arguement insued, and the guy dropped his hands reaching toward his pockets, that is when the father shot him.
      Also there is no mention in the original article of the boy being under the girls bed, it states he was under the covers with her not under the bed. Which means that this Dad found a guy his daughter claimed not to know in her bed. He didn’t imediately shoot, but called the police instead, he only shot when he felt threatened and I think that most of us would in the same situation.
      It’s extremely frustrating to see the actual facts of the case glossed over for the whole “guns bad, person with gun even worse” argument, I’m surprised some one hasn’t thrown out the whole if they were more “enlightened” parents they would have just let their daughter’s boyfriend sleep over and this would never have been an issue diatribe.

      • http://wtfihaveakid.blogspot.ca/ jendra_berri

        So, the guy was in her bed and she’s claiming not to know him? Uh, shit yeah, I’d be calling the police, pointing a gun at him. And the boy reaches into his pocket when you’ve told him to keep his hands up, and you know you’re outmatched physically, all the while your daughter claiming she doesn’t know him?
        Unless there’s a huge detail missing here, I still don’t see how dad is at fault.

      • Nichole

        Okay so I was wrong, he was under the bed when the younger brother saw him. (Kudos to that kid by the way, if I saw two feet sticking out from under my older sister’s bed I probably would have freaked out.) I just read a second article, but he was not under the bed when he was shot. He was shot because he reached for his pocket after the dad had told him to keep his hands in the air and that the police were on the way.

      • Kendra

        Your version definitely makes more sense and helps give the dad a little more credit. I still can’t get past what is going on with the daughter. I just feel that there should be HUGE difference between “Oh shit, I got caught sneaky a dude in the house” and “Oh shit, there’s a rapist/intruder in my room”. With that said, I can still understand the dad’s position at the time because he reached toward his pockets. Even if he knew it was her boyfriend, he still could try something being he was held at gun point and the police were on the way.

      • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

        Her younger brother went to say good night and saw two feet sticking out under the bed, detectives said. He then went to get his father.

        From the link I posted to the video.

    • pixie

      Ok, so now that I’ve had the chance to read the news article linked (and checked a couple others) and have had a few of you point out mistakes in my comments (such as the father was confined to a wheelchair), I’m going to revise what I said earlier.

      I can’t imagine the fear and panic the father was going through when another of his children told him about seeing someone under his 16 year old daughter’s bed, because I’ve never been in that position. I can understand the panic, however, and I’m blaming him less for shooting when he saw the kid looking like he was reaching for something in his pocket, especially after an argument broke out. I still don’t agree with shooting to kill. I’m blaming the daughter more for denying knowing the boy, since she probably knew her father had a gun, 911 was called, and Johran and her father got into an argument, not to mention her father was on medications. Plus being awoken up at 2am doesn’t help with thinking. I’m still looking for where the information on the father being in a wheelchair comes from, since several written sources say “The father walked in and asked questions” (I saw this in both the linked news article and a USA today article). Admittedly I haven’t been able to watch any of the videos (sitting in class at the moment), if that’s where that information comes from, but I’m not saying it’s untrue or denying it in any way.

      I guess the lesson learned is don’t lie to your father about sneaking your boyfriend into your room in the middle of the night. I’m not sure of how the courts should rule this, because we still don’t know all the facts and it’s a tricky case. I still don’t think it should be considered self-defence, but that’s about all I have any concrete stance on at the moment. From the news articles that I’ve read, it also appears that the father did suffer a panic attack or something else, showing that he most likely didn’t make the decision to pull the trigger lightly.

      • Paul White

        I guess I’m going to ask exactly when you consider something to be self defense.

      • pixie

        In Canada, as I stated below, being able to claim self-defence is using appropriate force, not excessive. In this case, I’m beginning to understand shooting first on the off chance that the other person had a concealed weapon, where it becomes excessive is shooting to kill. He shot 3 times, if I’m not mistaken. Having had that mentality bashed into my head growing up (my martial arts instructor was a prison guard and I grew up knowing a number of police officers), that’s where I draw the line. Incapacitating versus killing.

      • Paul White

        What my attitude is, and what I’ve always been taught, is that you hit them (or shoot them) until they quit attacking. They can survive or not, that’s irrelevant. I like that rule because incapacitating someone WITHOUT risking killing them is incredibly more difficult under good conditions, let alone stressful ones.

      • pixie

        And I’m not criticizing that. Both of us were raised with different teachings in different places. And I was also taught “it’s better to be tried by twelve than carried by six”, so if worse came to worse, it was better to be alive and facing trial than possibly dead, but the concept of excessive force was never lessened.

      • JustAGuest

        I don’t know exactly the circumstances, but be aware that many people who use wheelchairs say things like “I went for a walk” or “I walked to class” or whatever. So simply reporting that someone walked somewhere doesn’t imply they are able-bodied. (I had no idea this was the case until I had a friend who used a wheelchair, so this is more an FYI in case you, like me, assumed that people in wheelchairs used some other term.)

        In terms of walking vs. crawling, though, I’m not sure what’s going on. (If he walked in the room, I’m assuming he was in his chair; if he crawled, then presumably not.)

      • pixie

        Sorry if this posts twice, but my internet is being dumb.

        I actually wasn’t aware, so thanks for letting me know. It makes sense to me in the usage of that terminology. In terms of crawling versus walking, all the sources I saw either said he walked into the room or he went into the room, with no mention of crawling. There weren’t any actual statements from the father or family, just second/third hand accounts of the police to the reporter, so I really am not clear on what the case is in this situation.

      • Paul White

        That’s true enough. I’ll never forget how confused I got when a blind lady I was friends with in college talked about watching a movie…

    • rrlo

      I just can’t get over the fact that a 17 year old young man was shot dead. There has to be a lesson here – I just don’t know what it is.

      I do think that the dad should face some sort of consequence for his actions (beyond facing trial and the mental anguish) – simply because he shot and killed someone. There should be some repercussion for shooting and killing someone – who was ultimately unarmed and harmless – even if it was kind of understandable and ultimately a mistake.

      • Michelle Pittman

        i’m pretty sure the knowledge that he shot an innocent 17 year old child because his daughter LIED is going to be a pretty big consequence to live with…

      • rrlo

        I hope so. I also hope that there are some more concrete consequences.

      • CrazyFor Kate

        I sure as hell hope the daughter faces some consequences. That is an awful, awful thing to do.

    • chickadee

      I am seriously confused about the wheelchair issue; I’ve read many accounts of this story, and none of them mention a wheelchair. Some of them even say the father walked into the room. What am I missing?

    • http://fckwhatyouheard.wordpress.com/ Lunashademom

      Just… why guns? Why? So sad. This could have easily happened in my teenage years. (I wasn’t exactly, shall we say, wholesome.) Also, why didn’t the daughter just say he was her friend if he was her friend!! Just awful.

    • DadandBuried

      Too bad the daughter’s teacher wasn’t there, then the teacher could have used his gun to defend the daughter’s boyfriend from the dad. WE NEED MORE TEACHERS WITH GUNS IN OUR HOUSES.

    • ted3553

      I just can’t get this through my head at all. It’s definitely different
      when he requires a wheelchair and isn’t in it against someone who’s
      fully mobile but why is your instinct to shoot instead of calling the
      cops-especially since he had the gun as backup? His daughter made a horrible decision by lying but I have 2 teenaged girls who on occasion have been like a toddler and will lie even when you put the proof in their face.

      • pixie

        According to other news sources, he did call the police, but they got into an argument, and then when it looked like the kid was reaching for something, that’s when the father shot the kid. There’s lot of questions that are still fuzzy as of right now, and I’m definitely not excusing that the kid was killed. The other sources I found as well don’t mention that he needed a wheelchair, nor that he crawled into the room (though I haven’t watched any of the videos)

    • Powderboy

      Sad story. If there was no gun, there would be a bat, or a knife, or a fist.

      • darras

        Yeeahh.. But at least with a bat, knife or fist the likelihood of death is significantly reduced. Poor kid.

    • Kelly

      Wow, the daughter is a real great friend, isn’t she? Her dad had a gun and she still claimed she didn’t know the kid? That’s cold.

      It makes me wonder if there’s abuse in the family. Was she so terrified of her dad knowing she invited a boy in that she’d rather her little boyfriend get shot than own up to it?

      • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

        Good points

      • Penny

        Yeah, seriously – I’m seventeen and if I was in this scenario, where my father was holding a GUN, I would tell the truth.
        disclaimer: I would actually never be in this scenario, for a variety of reasons, but I can’t imagine putting someone else’s life at risk because I was afraid of getting in trouble.

      • courtneth the modest unicorn

        I thought that too. She must have been very afraid of what her dad was going to do to her for having a boy in her room. Which makes you wonder why she’d have him in there in the first place. But, of course, teenagers aren’t exactly known for their good judgement.

    • Frannie

      Who calls 911 on their own boyfriend just to get out of trouble for inviting him over? At some point, how do you not come clean? Surely this girl had plenty of opportunities to stop this before it escalated. I don’t blame the dad for being scared for his kid, nor do I blame the poor young man who was killed. Seems to me the daughter is the one who could have prevented all of this by just being honest and accepting the consequences.

    • J

      From one parent to another I am sorry for the loss of your son,I think this daughter needs to tell the truth this is a shame because there is more to this story if you are old enough to do the crime an get caught at least stand an face the music, we know this guy
      won’t be standing anymore.We had a case where a girl was with two football player’s she got caught in the gym by the couch she cried rape these boys had to go to court she left the school the state an these guys men did not learn a lesson they still married outside there race. I just think if you are bold enough to do things behind close doors in the dark it will come to light .Geez get over it already!!

    • Afton

      I believe that in Texas there are laws that say that deadly force is authorized in order to stop rape even if you yourself are not the victim. So even though the teenage boy didn’t sexually assault the daughter the father will probably get off since that is what he thought was happening.

      I could be totally wrong though. I just remember that case where the father walked in on his daughter being raped and beat the rapist to death.

      • wonderstruck

        I totally understood that case – the girl in question was a toddler, I believe. When you have a teenage boy in a teenage girl’s room, things are quite different. Not saying I blame the dad, I blame the daughter.

    • Athena A

      What I don’t understand is how the dad couldn’t see his daughter was lying? Maybe it’s just me, but if I had a strange man in my room I would be screaming or at least be very distressed and obviously scared to death. It would be very apparent that I did not know that person. If this guy was there to have a little ‘sexy time’ with the girl, then her dad coming in randomly would have startled her I imagine and she might have blurted out ‘I don’t know him’ when he asked if she did. Did the dad not ask the guy who he was? I imagine if he did, unlike the girl, the guy would have told the truth rather than saying ‘Oh I’m an intruder’. If he did, would he not have wondered if he was telling him the truth? The girl must have been a very good actress.
      This is a weird story, I would need a lot more information before thinking the dad did nothing wrong. What if it was your son who was just being a horny teenager? He didn’t do anything wrong but being there in that room. Did he utter threats, seem dangerous, not offer any explanation? I don’t know, this is just not ok.

      • Roderick2011

        The dad and daughter are lying.
        I don’t believe he ever asked the daughter if she knew him.
        I think that the father ordered the bf from under the bed and they argued and the bf seeing that the father was in a wheelchair thought he would escape by getting around him but it didn’t end that way.