• Tue, Dec 3 - 10:15 am ET

Actually, Crushable Was Right To Bring Up The Age Of Paul Walker’s Girlfriend – Because This Was Rape

Paul-Walker-attending-the-Russian-premiere-of-Fast-Five-in-Moscow-April-2011Holy hell people. This is not technically an article per se because I can’t add anything to what my co-writer Alexis Rhiannon has said, but if you feel like giving yourself a nice splitting rage headache head on over here. Alexis writes:

 

But in reading one of the articles about Paul’s girlfriend, Jasmine Pilchard-Gosnell, I thought I came across a typo — it said she was twenty-three, which I could understand, given that we live in a world where thirty-eight year old Bradley Cooper is dating twenty-one year old Suki Waterhouse, but it also said that they’d been dating for seven years.

Ha. No way, dude. No way that’s accurate. I kind of grimaced to myself, imagining the embarrassment of the editor who had let an error like that slip through the cracks. But then I looked at several other posts, and they all said the same thing: at the time of his death, Paul, 40, was dating Jasmine, 23, and they’d been together for seven years. Which means at the time of their meeting, she was sixteen and he was…thirty-three.

It’s horrible and tragic that Paul Walker died. My heart goes out to his friends, family and fans. It’s a terrible sad thing. But in no way does this excuse the fact that he was dating a girl who was 16 when he was 33. Dress it up how you want, excuse it how you want, whatever – this is wrong. On so many levels. But Alexis is being met with comments like:

Screen Shot 2013-12-03 at 9.42.26 AM

It should be noted that Sam Escobar at our other sister site The Gloss wrote a piece as well and she has comments like this on it:

Screen Shot 2013-12-03 at 10.08.17 AM

 

I can’t even. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked a revelation like this is bringing all the creeps out of the woodwork but there is no way in hell I can ever see how dating a 16-year-old when you are a 33-year-old man is OK. Even if you did sadly die in a tragic accident. These things can be exclusive, you can be sad the man died, but you can also acknowledge dating a girl that young is disgusting, exploitive and criminal. Let’s not ignore the simple fact of this. A man of this age dating a girl of this age is rape.

(Image: WENN)

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  • Alexis Rhiannon

    My favorite is how a ton of people have yelled at me for insulting ‘the mother of his child’ when Jasmine is 23 and Meadow is 15. TAKE A SECOND, HUMANS.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      I am utterly floored by the comments on both yours and Sam’s pieces

    • Alexis Rhiannon

      And yours now, too! Welcome!

    • Amanda Lee

      It’s because you have no sources. People aren’t fooled.

    • Alexis Rhiannon

      http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/paul-walker-girlfriend-broken-movie-star-death-report-article-1.1534465

      There’s the first one that comes up when you Google ‘Paul Walker girlfriend’, just to get you started. It says he was 40, she was 23, and they’d been dating for seven years.

      Response? Or are you not fooled.

    • alice

      that links to a previous dailymail article which states “she has REPORTEDLY been dating walker since 2006″… (emphasis added…and i believe that report can be traced to Star Magazine from 2009 – see my post below)

      could Walker be a statutory rapist? sure. scumbag? sure.

      could Star Magazine have been wrong about how long the couple was dating? sure.

      to label him a rapist right now feels like tabloid fodder.

    • Amanda Lee

      Thank you Alice.That’s what I was getting at. Until the gf says, “yes we had sex when I was 16″ there is no proof.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      Was Marvin Gaye a scumbag? Because he was dating a 16 year old and later married her.

    • Cee

      Didnt you have a source about this written about 5 years ago

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      Nah, amanda is at least rational, you’ve got like creepy dude party over there

    • Alexis Rhiannon

      Touche.

    • Clifford Fenoketer

      1. Creepy dude (crepe-food) : To bitter feminists, a male roughly their age that dates women younger and more attractive than them.

    • pixie

      Do they not math?
      I know girls are going through puberty younger and younger, but not taking a second to look at ages/do simple math is a little much. There’s only an 8 year age difference >.>

  • Amanda Lee

    Actually, Eve, it’s called tact. And you aren’t displaying any. Do you know for sure that they started dating when she was 16? Do you know that they had sex before she was 18? No, you don’t, so stop speculating. Not to mention, the age of consent in some states is 16. I don’t see why this needs to be brought up now right after the actor’s death.

    • Amanda Lee

      Oh and let’s ignore the fact that they have been together for 7 years. He’s just some creepy statutory rapist, right?

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      I’m sorry, but I will never be convinced it’s okay for a 16 year old a 33 year old to be in a romantic relationship, I do not care how long they have been together. By using your logic, if he was 17 and she was a baby it’s cool too, ya know, when she turns 7.

    • Amanda Lee

      I agree that it’s strange and I don’t understand why nor do I really want to. I’ve seen a lot of articles lately about Paul Walker has always said how immature he is. Maybe they just clicked? I’ve also read that he’s Mormon so maybe they waited to have sex. Was it inappropriate, yes. But I just don’t think this is the time to sit here and bash someone who just died.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      But see, I hate how cedes get absolved of almost everything. It’s sad he died, OF COURSE. But this is disgusting news to me. I can’t help it.

    • Cee

      They may not have had sex for two years, he’s a mormon, immature. Would you fiercely defend this had be not died or been an actor?
      Let go of this false decorum for a second to think if youd be here defending a powerful rich actor finding himself a teenaged girlfriend. Would you actively defend this? Let me ask you, how actively have you defended 30 something year old teachers dating their students? How actively have you supported that LOST actor marrying Courtney Stodden.

    • Amanda Lee

      Ok, Eve, nowhere did I say that if he was 17 and she was a baby, it would still be ok. The younger you go, the worse it is. My bf is 11 years older than I am. So when he was 20, I was 9. Is that ok? Definitely not.

    • Alexis Rhiannon

      The difference is that that’s probably not when you started dating. I’d assume that the relationship began after you were already eighteen, but please do correct me if I’m wrong.

    • Blueathena623

      Why does longevity count? Mary Kay and Villi (or however you spell it) have been “together” since 1996, and married since 2005.

    • whiteroses

      Yep. And tbh, there’s NOTHING that can make that situation okay, in my mind.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      Because a 16 year old should not be “dating” am middle aged man, period. It’s repulsive. I don’t give a shit if he was a handsome actor or some creepy weirdo.

    • Amanda Lee

      It says “reportedly” dating. I don’t see anywhere that it’s confirmed. What if they met when she was 16 but didn’t start dating until she was 18? Is that OK then. I just don’t see why this is being brought up now. It’s old news technically. 7 years old. Why are we sitting here calling an actor who just died a rapist? Do you think his family, girlfriend or daughter would like to see that? I don’t think so.

    • Alexis Rhiannon

      What sort of confirmation are you looking for?

    • TngldBlue

      I wonder if you would be so quick to defend a teacher, politician, or athlete in this same situation?

    • alice

      if the only source of the allegation was from a tabloid, then yes, i would urge everyone to reserve judgement.

      i’m really confused why so many people are acting like this is a rape-apologist viewpoint. it’s not.

    • whiteroses

      If she’s 23 now, they’ve been together for seven years, and he’s 40, I’m not sure how anything in that can be misconstrued.

      People who aren’t famous, rich and popular get sent up the river for less.

    • alice

      oy vey! the point is: the only source stating that they’ve dated for seven years has been a tabloid. ergo: let’s not call him a rapist just yet!

    • whiteroses
    • alice

      no lie: i just emailed the post author asking for confirmation of source. i’ll let you know if he responds. it’s unclear if he’s sourcing hollywood life or not.

      fighting for journalistic standards everywhere!

    • whiteroses

      Excellent. But I will say that when two reputable sources report it, I’m pretty sure that it might actually be true.

    • alice

      we’re not calling dailymail a reputable source though :)

      i feel like something similar happened with the Kevin Clash saga last year. there were allegations and settlements and resignations and rumors and recantations flying around left and right. and it was difficult to reserve judgement.

    • whiteroses

      I consider the Post and the Daily News reputable sources, for the most part.

    • SL

      You realize the Daily News just linked to the article on the Daily Mail site right?

    • whiteroses

      And the Post? And the fact that it’s distressingly easy to mistake his girlfriend for his daughter?

    • Tinyfaeri

      The age of consent is not that simple. In a lot of the states with an age of consent of 16 or younger, there is an upper limit on the age of the partner, and conditions on the relationship of the partner to the minor. Ex: the age of consent may be 16, but until the minor is 18 it’s still statutory rape if their partner is more than x years older than they are (in at least a few states 8 years) or if their partner is in a position of authority (teacher, boss, principle, police officer, etc).

      Either way, there is no world in which a 16 year old is an emotional (or physical) match for a 33 year old man, no matter how “immature” he is or how “mature” she is (she isn’t really). I’m a fan of Paul Walker and his movies, but I can still say it’s icky to date a 16 year old when you’re in your 30s.

  • keelhaulrose

    I have nothing against relationship gaps, but this, while it may be technically legal (I don’t know age of consent laws off the top of my head), it should have raised a few eyebrows. Even “mature” sixteen year olds are not ready for such an adult relationship, they’re still crazy bags of hormones.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      How scientifically evidence for your claim? So they can drive a car where potentially kill others and/or others? That’s illogical.

    • keelhaulrose

      Four years of studying child development was enough evidence for me, but then I got another few years of real-world experience. Sixteen year olds who think they’re mature will often give “evidence” to the fact like they haven’t broken rules (that’s why they’re rules, you’re expected to abide), they aren’t hormone-driven (which would generally mean they aren’t interested in a relationship, even if the person is 33), and they do “more mature” things than their friends like concern themselves with the environment and not wearing makeup (that makes you a 16 year old who is concerned about the environment, not necessarily mature). Teens around this age are still learning independence skills and emotionally maturing

      http://www.texaschildrenspediatrics.org/15-17-Years/

      We let them have licenses, most places don’t give full driving privileges, as shown by the link I provided you earlier. Most states won’t fully license a teen driver who hasn’t proven they can control a car. That doesn’t mean a teen won’t kill someone before proving they’re reckless. But we license them anyway, but restrict them concerning time of day and number/age of passengers because we don’t fully trust them to run around with minimal supervision with a several ton hunk of metal.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      Link’s kinda of outdated as adolescences is proven to last longer.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24173194

      However, it mentions nothing about romantic relationships with older folks.

    • keelhaulrose

      The second half of this article, after it stops focusing on Courtney Stodden’s relationship, has a few inputs from experts, who agree that most teens in this type of relationship are not ready for it, for a multitude of reasons:

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/30/age-gap-relationship-consequences-older-men-younger-women_n_887205.html

      What really gets me is at the end, where there is a study that says that teens in that type of relationship unanimously feel there is no manipulation or problems with their relationships and feel no regrets, and women who had engaged in that relationship when they were younger, who had a mostly negative feeling about their experiences. So these girls aren’t regretting their relationship as it happens, but feel used and disgusted by it later.

      The study they’re talking about:
      http://muse.jhu.edu/books/9780814768150

      Another study by the Guttmacher Institute shows that when a teenager is in a relationship with an older person they are more likely to have sex than a teen with a partner their age:

      http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3430402.html

      It also shows that those in age-gap relationships are more likely to not use protection, and have a higher rate of pregnancy. There’s also a correlation between these younger sexual relationships and depression/suicidal behavior, which almost anyone can agree is harmful for the girl.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      Give me some time to read it.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      You means this line?

      “Furthermore, Leitenberg and Saltzman found that among females who had had first sexual intercourse at ages 11-12, those who had a partner five or more years their senior had an elevated risk of attempted suicide, substance abuse and pregnancy. Among females who had had first intercourse between the ages of 13 and 15, having older partners was associated only with truancy. In contrast, among females whose age at first intercourse was 16-18, having older partners was not linked to these negative outcomes. Thus, adverse effects of partner age difference may lessen as females mature.”

  • Cee

    I find having this indignant attitude to any critique on a person that has died to be quite fake, stupid and annoying. People die and it doesnt automatically absolve them of all the things they did. Death is sad and horrible but it doesn’t make a person who died a saint. Especially with actors. You don’t know them personally. What gives with this offense people take over a guy that did racing movies over so many other worthwhile things to be up in arms about?
    People need to stop acting like everyone critiquing this has gone straight up to Pauls family and said he’s a perv. Which, he was. A 30 something year old actor has a LOT of power over a 16 year old. Famous, rich, handsome…Thats a lot over a 16 year old girl.
    The part that weirded me out th most was to read that they were on and off. Well duh, she’s becoming an adult while dating a person that has been one for over a decade!

    • Amanda Lee

      I also find that sites posting things for shock value only and to draw attention their site with rage-inducing headlines to be fake, stupid, and annoying (as this is old news apparently)

    • Cee

      Tell me how much you knew about Paul Walker before he died. Did you know gis daughter or gfs name before this happened? No?
      Not many people knew. He was very low key.
      Its being written about now because its just come to light and it is about reconciling a well liked or hardly noticed actor’s death and finding out something not so savory.
      If my relative died and I found out he or she was dating someone underage, I’d have some thoughts about it. Our minds and feelings don’t go blank about a person when they pass.

    • Amanda Lee

      No, it is old news. I just googled the phrase “Paul Walker’s girlfriend” and there is an article from almost 5 years ago.

    • Cee

      So now its being more known. Are you honestly this passionately defending this because hes dead?
      Would you defend this story had it been about a teacher and a student?

    • Amanda Lee

      Yes, because he is dead and I’m a Paul Walker fan. He is a good person who made a bad decision. Let’s move on people.

    • Cee

      Well lets hope you’re not a fan of many alleged child/statutory rapists, particularly for the sake of any children under your care.

    • jessica

      ROMAN POLANSKY (POLANKSI??). I read this and kept thinking “His name belongs here”.

    • Amanda Lee

      Really, Cee? Because I’m a Paul Walker fan and don’t want to jump to using the term “rapist” I’m now putting imaginary children in my care at risk?

    • whiteroses

      Am I sorry Paul Walker is dead? Sure, as much as a person can be sorry someone who she never met is dead. He had a daughter who will miss him every day for the rest of her life. And it’s a tragedy, because nobody deserves to die the way he did, no matter what they’ve done.

      Having said that- he doesn’t get a free pass just because he’s dead.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      If Marvin Gaye does, why not him?

    • Rachel Sea

      How do you know whether he was a good person? There are a lot of artists I really like, but performing an awesome character does not necessarily translate to real life.

    • http://fairlyoddmedia.com/ Frances Locke

      I used to love David Boreanaz until I waited on him at a restaurant when I was in college. He was a mega douche.

    • Rachel Sea

      Bummer. I’m just going to pretend I didn’t hear that.

    • http://fairlyoddmedia.com/ Frances Locke

      Oh, so you knew him personally?

    • Man_Of_Sin

      There is a power difference between a teacher and student. You can’t compare.

    • Cee

      So an adult with experience approaches a teenager. He has money, a car, a life of experience to be able to approach a teenager and impress him/her, able to take him or her away from any situation he or she is in, convince him or her that they are more mature than the rest of his or her friends to handle dating a grown up so on and so forth. The adult has authority just on the basis of being the adult in the situation and the teenager for the most part will trust this…am I talking about Paul Walker or a teacher? How do you differentiate? There was books in one situation?

    • Man_Of_Sin

      Wrong, a teacher can coerce a student for sex. You know…”have sex with me or you’ll fail this class”. No, a random major has no authority over a random minor.

      That’s what people mean when they talk about power indifference. One has control over the other.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      This was known since 2009.

    • http://fairlyoddmedia.com/ Frances Locke

      It baffles me that people think everything we write online is strictly for page views. I write for Mommyish and I’ve written for The Gloss as well, and when we cover stories like this the discussion of page views or how much attention we’re going to get never comes up. Now, I wouldn’t go as far as to cal Paul Walker a rapist without any proof, but I think this is an important subject to cover.

  • alice

    i’ll say this: it’s pretty irresponsible of all parties to label someone a RAPIST based on rumors for which they have NOT A SINGLE VERIFIABLE SOURCE.

    The sources here, would be Paul Walker and Jasmine Pilchard Gosnell. One of those sources is dead. The other probably doesn’t want to be reached for comment right now.

    “Someone at the Gloss” and “A guy over at Frisky” are not sources :)

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      a 16 year old and a 33 year old dating and having any sort of physical sexual contact is rape.

    • alice

      my point is: who said that they were dating when she was 16? who said they’ve been together for 7 years? i read one article that said she didn’t start dating him till she was 19.

      the whole thing is wildly speculative, and baseless, with no confirmed sources. as of today, it’s a rumor.

      just because blogs aren’t held to the same journalistic standards as newspapers, doesn’t mean that you can’t try to verify facts. and if you can’t find a source, why run it?

    • alice

      wait, i think i found the source: a perez hilton article from 2009 that sources a … wait for it …. Star Magazine article. http://perezhilton.com/2009-02-05-paul-walker-35-engaged-to-teenager/

      :)

      I just think calling someone a rapist is a big deal, and the claim should be based on something weightier than a Star Magazine fluff piece from 2009.

    • Megan Zander

      If anyone cares, I looked up the statue is California ( my law degree is showing) age of consent in California is 18. And sex with some with more than three years age difference is a felony charge. ( less than three years age difference is a misdemeanor )

    • Megan Zander

      The issue of whether or not they actual had sex aside, there are other laws potentially broken here. There are laws like ” impairing the morals of a minor” which make it illegal to engage in any sexualized activity with Minors, kissing, texting or talking in a sexual manner… The statues are pretty broad, and they’re written that way for a reason- because 33 year old men are not supposed to be romantically linked with 16 year olds. I don’t care who you are or how ” immature”.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      ” because 33 year old men are not supposed to be romantically linked with 16 year olds.”

      Is that objective? I would like to see the scientifically evidence supporting that.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      Not according to most world’s laws. Hell, even California doesn’t even call it rape but unlawful sex.

    • esuzanne

      Alice, I agree with you so much. I am not a “Walker fan”—I have actually never even seen one of his movies (yes, I live under a rock apparently)—and I am not at all interested in defending him or rape or questionable relationships. But I AM interested in defending journalistic integrity and fact-checking and I am wary of Stephen Glass-style reporting/sources. I’m not accusing this article of any malicious intent, I just think it is so incredibly important to verify such a serious allegation.

  • http://ultimatemamacat.tumblr.com/ Hana Graham

    Oh boy. Bring on the creepy anons. I’m actually kind of a huge fan of Courtney Stodden and her special brand of feminism (she’s trying, okay?) especially after tuning into Celebrity Big Brother for the first time…ever, and seeing what a sweet genuine girl she actually is. I still think her relationship with her ex was and is creepy. This relationship, no matter their ages, is creepy too.

    Teenagers are sexual, this is fact. No matter how much we wanna deny it, teenagers are boning like crazy and always have been. It’s what they do. We were all that age once. However, they should just be sexual with each other, not with people more than twice their age. I was in an inappropriate relationship when I was 17 with a man in his late 20s and it did me absolutely zero good.

    The people rushing to defend him because of his celebrity status and recent death is kinda gross and weird. Yes, some overprotective parents out there do take advantage of the the statutory rape charge. But they are few and far between, as far as I know, and if you know you’re breaking the law, maybe you shouldn’t do that, and you can avoid a lifetime as a sex offender! Because statutory rape is still rape.

    • jessica

      Since you brought up Courtney Stodden… I felt especially weird about it because it seemed like she has some issues and is especially vulnerable. As in more issues than the average kid her age. Not that it is ok for an adult to touch a well adjusted underage kid, of course.

    • http://ultimatemamacat.tumblr.com/ Hana Graham

      I want to adopt her. :(

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      I feel the same way I kinda love her

    • Man_Of_Sin

      There is n evidence of a sexual encounter. But since we are talking James Marsters started dating his current wife when she was 17 and is a 26 year age gap between them.

  • EX

    I agree 100% that it is creepy for a 33 year old to date a 16 year old but I have to say I don’t think it’s right to use the words “rapist” and “criminal” as we do not know the details. Depending on the state we are talking about (or the country) 16 may be the age of consent. Also, we do not know that the relationship was sexual prior to the age of consent (say, for example, they met a few days before her 17th birthday – which happens to be the age of consent in the state I live in). I’m not saying it’s right but saying it’s “criminal” and “rape” just doesn’t sit right with me. We can be disgusted all we want, that doesn’t necessarily make it illegal.

    To be clear, I am not defending his behavior, at all, but I think the language being used to describe it is potentially inaccurate.

    • Eric Strauss

      Ex, you express what I want to express as well on this one. I can’t imagine it being OK in my world for a 33 year old to be with a 16 year old, but she’s 23 now and they were still together. I’d say it would be best to ask her what she thinks about it before assailing their 7 year long relationship as one founded upon rape.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      I am not sure, because we would need a swayback machine to go back to when she was 16 and ask her, and most 16 year old girls would not be the first to say yeah this is creepy. BUT IT IS

    • pixie

      I would’ve found it creepy at 16. Hell, I found it creepy when one of my boyfriend’s female roommates was dating a 35 year old at age 20. I know they’re both consenting adults, and a big age difference doesn’t really bother me in older people (unless it’s Hefner with one of his 18 year old wives, that’s gross), but for some reason large age gaps like that bother me in younger adults (maybe because there can be a huge range in how mature someone in their early 20s can be).

    • Evelyn

      Agreed, how big an age gap feels depends a lot on the age of the youngest person. There is an obviously huge difference between a 10 year old with a 20 year old and a 16 year old with a 26 year old but I also think 20 with 30 is different from 30 with 40 and 70 with 80.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      16 year olds and 23 year olds are not in the same boat as 10 year olds with 20 year olds. A 16 year old is usually finished with puberty and can give informed consent.

    • Clifford Fenoketer

      And like every other hypocritical busybody woman commenting here, everyone should obey your wishes and live their life to live up to your arbitrary mores even though you admittedly can’t even define them in any consistent concrete way.

    • Eric Strauss

      Yeah, it’s super creepy. And I’m not saying it’s OK. But rape is an awfully strong word. In using the term, you are saying that she is a survivor of a sex crime. All I’m saying is: doesn’t she get to determine that?

    • Rachel Sea

      In general it is totally gross, but on an individual level I’m not sure. At 16 I was dating a 25 year old, but we didn’t have sex until I was 18, because I didn’t want to do anything that could get him in trouble. Even retrospectively, I think what we did was appropriate *for us.*

      At that age all my friends were 8-15 years older than I was, younger or newer kids at my high school frequently mistook me for faculty (even sometimes mistaking me for their classmate’s parent!), I had a full time job, and I didn’t live with my parents. I had little in common with – and no attraction to – my age bracket, so it was either date older, or be alone.

      If her situation was anything like mine, if he was immature (not uncommon in actors who find success young) I could see it.

    • Clifford Fenoketer

      Here we go with the female hypocrisy again that goes something like “Any older man that would date a teenage girl is a creep and a pedophile. By the way, I dated a 25 year old when I was 16, but it’s okay for me to do it.”

    • keelhaulrose

      As much as I hate to put it this way, but there’s a reason we don’t let 16 year olds do things like get married (without parental permission), gamble, smoke, drink, join the army, or have full driving privileges at sixteen: While we acknowledge that they are mature enough to do some things, they aren’t ready for the full responsibilities of an adult. Yes, there are mature sixteen year olds, but that doesn’t mean that they have the necessary life experience and forethought to make such a huge decision, even though many think they do (how often at 16 did we think our parents were such idiots for not letting us do something when, in retrospect, it was probably a good idea they stopped us?).
      There’s also a reason that we usually have the upper limit of ‘acceptable’ sexual relation for a 16 year old, and it’s because most, not all but most, older people who date teenagers are extremely manipulative, and enjoy the fact that sixteen year olds are not as world-wise as they think they are, to use them the way they want.

      I’m not saying Paul Walker did this, but for the sake of argument even if they didn’t have sex until she was eighteen, we have the question why someone of his age (and probable ability to pick up any number of women who are already ‘legal’) would want to get involved with a girl who most people his age would be asking to babysit their child. As I’ve said before, I’m not against age-gap relationships, but this wide of an age gap begs the question why?

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      agreed fully

    • Man_Of_Sin

      “As much as I hate to put it this way, but there’s a reason we don’t let 16 year olds do things like get married (without parental permission), gamble, smoke, drink, join the army, or have full driving privileges at sixteen: While we acknowledge that they are mature enough to do some things, they aren’t ready for the full responsibilities of an adult.”

      No its because they are not finished with highschool. Oh and in most states 16 year olds do have full privileges. Also, those age laws varies from country to country. It pretty arbitrary, really.

      “There’s also a reason that we usually have the upper limit of ‘acceptable’ sexual relation for a 16 year old, and it’s because most, not all but most, older people who date teenagers are extremely manipulative, and enjoy the fact that sixteen year olds are not as world-wise as they think they are, to use them the way they want.”

      Actually, most states and countries do allow 33 year olds to have sex with 16 years legally.

    • keelhaulrose

      First off, we do not have “most states” giving full driving privileges at 16: http://parentingteens.about.com/od/teendriving/a/Driving-Age-by-State.htm
      Second, it’s about half the states that allow it (most of those have age-gap restrictions), but many of those have other laws that cover many behaviors in such an age-gap relationship. Take a picture? Child porn. Have any semblance of authority over the teen (teacher, coach, hired them to babysit, etc), and it’s still illegal because we recognize many people who enter into this kind of relationship have some sort of authority over the teen and recognize its not a safe, healthy relationship.
      As for other countries, well, rape results in women being punished in some other countries. Many allow sex with preteens if you marry them first (because someone who may not have hit puberty yet should be getting married, right?) Should we debate sexual health laws on a global scale?

    • Man_Of_Sin

      1. Still, only 18 states don’t allow minors to have full licenses(I counted).

      2. No, over 30 states have it at 16. This site describes the laws in detail. Their are no age-gap restrictions on the numbers display.
      http://www.age-of-consent.info/

      3. Teacher, coach, and babysitters having sex with people they are watching over are illegal regardless of age.

      4. Over 80% of the world has the age of consent under 18 and 99% of the drinking age under 21.

    • rissa

      Well actually that just because you’re a new driver. its two years no matter if youre 50 when you get it, or 16.I had Seizures for a long time and and so only recently did i get it, and although i dont have all the restrictions that minors have,Such as curfew, I technically do have a probationary license.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      “BUT IT IS” are you saying that it’s objective? Because it’s not.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      I’m not sure a 16-year-old deciding to bone with a 33 year old is a feminist issue :(

    • Rachel Sea

      No, but letting a 23 year old decide whether or not her 16 year old self was raped could be.

      I think we can all agree that 16 year olds should basically never have relationships with 33 year olds, but for every situation there are exceptional circumstances, and things are not always as they seem.

    • Clifford Fenoketer

      It totally is a feminist issue, but in the opposite sense. Notice that nearly all objections to older guys dating younger women come from older women. You take the bitter old divorced 30 and 40 something hags that have let themselves go who wonder why guys their age are more interested in attractive, childless younger women and there’s not much debate on the issue.

    • Jess

      Fuck off you little rat I’m 16 and u would call that gross just cause your a desperate whore ready to get down and dirty with her grandad doesn’t mean everyone is. Fucking blonde dumb bimbos these days.. You sound like them Essex girls! Cunt bag! Go have z gang bang down at a pensioners joke then ya filthy slag!

    • Jess

      Fuck off you little rat I’m 16 and i would call that gross just cause your a desperate whore ready to get down and dirty with her grandad doesn’t mean everyone is. Fucking blonde dumb bimbos these days.. You sound like them Essex girls! Cunt bag! Go have a gang bang down at a pensioners home then ya filthy slag!

    • Blueathena623

      That’s not feminism. Stop.

    • Eric Strauss

      OK, hold on a second. I’m making an extremely reasonable point here. All I am saying is shouldn’t this young woman have the choice to identify herself as the victim of a sex crime or not?

      I’m trying to look at it from her perspective, not his. I want her to be able to determine her own narrative. Isn’t that feminism?

      I’d really appreciate any response that addresses what I’m actually saying here, rather than simply expressing knee-jerk antipathy.

      Please, keep in mind: What he did was bad. I am not defending it in any sense. It’s unconscionable for an adult to have any sexual contact with an adolescent. Whether or not the contact turns into a relationship is really irrelevant. As analogy: If I try to kill a man and somehow accidentally cure cancer in the process, that does not absolve me of my immoral act.

      But to call what he did rape, especially now that he is dead, serves only to foist upon the woman a label that she may not want and may not believe accurately describes her.

    • http://fairlyoddmedia.com/ Frances Locke

      Here is how I feel. If he did have sex with her before the age of 18 (which is the age of consent in their state) then he is a rapist, by the letter of the law. But since we have no evidence that he did, I think using the word rapist isn’t warranted. And I am a rape survivor, so this isn’t an issue I take lightly.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      Its called unlawful sex with a minor in the state rather than statutory rape.

    • Blueathena623

      Right now you are talking about a legal issue and are trying to tie it to feminism.
      First of all, let me state that I have not said whether he is or is not a rapist. I find it incredibly unlikely they just looked into each other’s eyes for two years, but I have no proof, no evidence has been gathered, etc.
      However, someone under the age of consent does not get to decide whether or not a 33 yr old having sex with a 16 yr old is a rapist. The 33 yr old is a rapist and the 16 yr old was raped. Whether or not she feels victimized, that is not up to me. But statutory rape laws exist for a reason. In general, teenagers don’t have the same level of reasoning skills of adults.
      Furthermore, using the “well, if she doesn’t think its rape, it doesn’t have to be rape” logic is a slippery, slippery slope. What if a 15 yr old doesnt “feel” raped? A 14 yr old? What if the child/teenager just doesn’t have the experience or vocabulary to state that they feel something is wrong?
      Again, age of consent and statutory rape laws aren’t automatically a feminist issue.

    • Eric Strauss

      No, you are right. They aren’t necessarily feminist issues. And if the female were 16 now and the male 33 now, I’d be with you entirely.

      But she’s now 23. And I see it as a feminist issue in a lot of ways. Look, part of mysogny stems from the way society wants to force women into certain roles. Thus, slut shaming, fat shaming, etc. But the flip side of that is victim-supporting. We normally think of the first as bad and the second as good. But what if the person doesn’t perceive herself as a victim, nor wish to be perceived as one. Can we respect that? Can we respect the unconventional manifestation of womanhood she’s chosen? She’s long past 16 now, so there is no longer any need for others to intercede on her behalf.

      By declaring her deceased boyfriend a rapist, we deny her life narrative entirely, assuming she loved the guy and was happy with her life. Who are we to insist she can’t make her own determinations about what happened?

      Granted, 23 probably isn’t an age when one is likely to engage most meaningful reflection about one’s past. But let me ask you this. If she insists that she regrets none of it, and that, in retrospect, she feels that she was capable of consent, why must we demand of her victimhood?

      We don’t have to condone the adult man in the relationship to permit the now adult woman to make her own determinations regarding what that relationship was.

      ***There’s a big difference between how one ought to respond 7 years after the fact and how one ought to respond upon hearing that a 16 year old was dating a 33 year old right now.***

      And you are right about the legal specifics (legally, it is rape), but you are wrong that I am talking about a legal issue. If I were talking about it as a legal issue, I’d propose that it absolutely needs to be a crime, but that it ought to be a distinct crime, called something other than rape. It’s something more like:

      “Sexual activity with another human incapable of giving consent as an equal because of age – activity that is necessarily criminalized because almost always such activity is predatory in nature, and often causes significant and lasting harm to the younger party.”

      I know it’s a long name for a law, but I’d argue that it is more accurate than “rape” for situations like this.

      But really, I’m talking about a moral issue, and an issue of discourse.

      You have not said “rapist.” I was responding to the article. Eve said it. And:

      ***What I am saying is not a slippery slope. It applies not to teenagers engaging in sex with adults, but rather to adults who in engaged in such behavior as teenagers.***

    • Blueathena623

      Eric — I’m sure you are a stand-up guy, but you need to know that parts of your second paragraph come off as creepy. I am not accusing you of this behaviour, but do know that some men use “feminism”/liberation as a way to guilt/persuade a woman into sexual activities.
      Secondly, why do you assume that she must automatically consider herself a victim if her boyfriend is called a rapist? She doesn’t have to crumble. If they did not have any relations, then she knows he is not a rapist. If they did, and she is honestly ok with it, she may not feel victimized at all.
      IF they had sexual relations of the type that falls under the description of rape (and I say this because I think some states consider oral under a different name or something like that) then he is a rapist, and I believe it does a disservice to other people who are raped to try and water down the term.

    • Eric Strauss

      OK, fair enough. Your second point is convincing. But I take exception to one thing.

      1. I really hope I did not come across as “creepy.” I hadn’t heard of “feminism as predatory strategy” before, but what you say makes sense, so I don’t doubt it’s out there. Anyhow, I approached my analysis of this issue as carefully as possible, but I guess it’s difficult as a middle aged heterosexual male to even voice an opinion about so sensitive an issue without raising eyebrows. I’m afforded more benefit of the doubt than many men, I suspect, given that I have a wife and my own 15 year old daughter (who can date a 33 year old man if and only if I have already castrated him), but our culture, understandably has become so vigilant about these matters that… Well, I guess there are some matters about which I should probably just listen.

    • Blueathena623

      I did state that I’m sure you’re a good guy, and I’m not accusing you of being a creep, but I did want you to know why people may take offense with you linking feminism to e,bracing her unconventional sexuality or whatever. And I appreciate you listening because I don’t want you to get lumped in with those other guys who are using “feminism” to get women. Sometimes its almost a guilt trip, like women are letting feminism down if they don’t embrace their sexuality and sleep with everyone they want to (including the guy using this guilt trip, obviously). As you said, you have not encountered this, so you didn’t know. Hopefully your daughter never encounters it either :)

    • Clifford Fenoketer

      It does a disservice to other people who are raped to try and water down the term you say? I think the state defining consensual sex as “rape” with an arbitrary age range and putting it in the same category as an actual rape is a lot more insulting to real rape victims and waters the term down more than anything else.

    • Eric Strauss

      So I looked it up. In North Dakota anyway, the crime is known as “corruption of a minor,” not “rape.”

      http://www.ag.state.nd.us/Brochures/FactSheet/SexWhatTeenagersNeedtoKnow.pdf

    • Man_Of_Sin

      In California they call it unlawful sex with a minor, not rape.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      ” It’s unconscionable for an adult to have any sexual contact with an adolescent.”

      Adolescent lasts till the mid-20s, just so you know.

    • chickadee

      This is also what I was thinking. I presume that people assume that dating is equivalent with sexual activity.

      I think this relationship started off on a completely creepy foot. I would not let a 23-year-old guy date my 16-year-old daughter, let alone one who is ten years older than that. But since no source confirms that they had sex before she turned 18, I think rape is an inaccurate term.

    • Evelyn

      If dating does not include sex before age of consent but involves a relationship that develops into sex as soon as she is legal then that would be grooming, which is also illegal in some places. Where I live (UK) 16 would be legally fine but morally considered sleezy. I would have no respect for any 33 year old in any form of romantic relationship with any 16 year old regardless of the maturity of either party (even if it was all kissing and “I love you”s but no sex).

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      GROOMING. thank you

    • Evelyn

      I personally find grooming that little bit creepier. If someone has the restraint to refrain from sex until a girl is older then they also have enough control over themselves that they can resist any kind of romantic relationship and they chose not to. It isn’t as if someone who waits for a girl to be older before taking it further can claim to be helpless against their feelings of love (and you just don’t understand, it’s twoo wuv and all that nauseating garbage people in a relationship where one is too young often claim). The grooming aspect makes a hypothetical relationship like that more deliberate and calculated.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      Look up what that is, please.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      So if someone was to wait for sex after marriage is grooming also? That is the dumbest comment I ever seen.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      Look up what grooming is, please.

    • rissa

      so by your reasoning, I who started dating my now husband at 17(18 is consent in my state) when he was 22(turned 23 before i turned 18), He was grooming me for sex(considering we didnt have sex when i was a minor but now are married) and that should be illegal? it couldn’t possibly be that he loved me and cared for me. 33 and 16 is a little far apart in age, but who am I to judge. And If they didnt have sex it’s not rape, and if he really cared for her and she him, i wouldnt say its grooming. Besides, the fact that the age of consent changes from place to place is odd to me, If a 16 year old and a 18 year old have sex and both consent in one state its okay, in another its rape. destroy that persons life by locking them up, whereas another would be fine. I’m sorry but a teen is able to consent. I met my husband at 17, if i had sex with him at that point it wouldnt have been rape

    • Man_Of_Sin

      That is the dumbest comment I ever seen as the dictionary disagrees. So if someone was to wait for sex after marriage is grooming also?

    • Momma425

      Yes, because movie stars are often interested in dating girls half their age and not getting to touch her sexually at all for two years. Makes sense.
      GROOMING. And inappropriate and gross.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      Look up what that is, please.

    • Clifford Fenoketer

      My best friend was 19 when she started dating him and he was about 27 at the time. They’re still married over ten years later and have a daughter and a happy marriage. Yet he still does not get along with her mom, and they never have gotten along because of the age difference. It’s only inappropriate because older women are jealous of younger women and the older men that date them. Thanks for helping make my point Chikadee!

    • http://fairlyoddmedia.com/ Frances Locke

      I’m guessing since they’re in California now, that this is where the relationship started, and the age of consent is 18 there. And they are pretty strict about it from what I’ve read.

    • EX

      Right. And if there’s proof they engaged in a sexual (or romantic or whatever the definition is in CA for there to have been a crime) relationship, then he’s a rapist. But we don’t have that proof.

      I would be interested in having a separate discussion about age of consent laws in the US. It has alwas bothered me that a relationship that is perfectly legal in one state constitutes a serious crime in another – and vice versa.

    • Clifford Fenoketer

      It’s not right to use the terms “rapist” and “criminal.” But you have to understand the mindset of those that oppose older guys dating younger women and their demographics—they’re almost all older women. The reason men their age are dating younger women is not because these women are slimmer and more attractive than them—it’s because these men are “pedophiles” of course! Funny, I’ve been reading these comments for three hours now and have not seen a single reference to older women dating younger guys at all, much less any of these women criticizing it.

    • EX

      You know, if you’re trying to troll you’re a little late to the party. Head back under your bridge and stay there.

  • Elizabeth

    Do we know where she/they lived? Age of consent laws are super confusing, and in many states, 16 is the age of consent. I live in Massachusetts, for example, and the age of consent is 16. There is an obsolete law still on the books in MA saying that enticing anyone under 18 “of chaste life” to have sex is a punishable offense, but I believe that law has only been used in court once in recent years.

    (For the record, I’m not defending his actions! I obviously do not know the circumstances, but something seems very off about the 33/16 age difference. I’m just curious about the legal implications.)

    • Megan Zander

      I. Looked it up, assuming they lived in CA, it’s 18

    • JLH1986

      The age of consent in California IS 16…if you’re 19 (the statute gives you three years). If you’re older than 19, the age of consent is 18. So if they engaged in any sexual behavior between 16-18. It was a crime. Of course I doubt anyone could/would confirm that and even so it is a moot point now.

  • gothicgaelicgirl

    Irrespective of how I feel about the relationship- my heart goes out to this poor girl, she has lost the man she loves and now people are trying to drag her loving years with him.
    Surely, people can’t be so heartless as to bring down this poor young woman even more?
    Is it not bad enough she lost him, much less for all these people who didn’t know them, calling him a rapist?

    It’s easy to speak ill of the dead, because the dead cannot stand up for themselves…

    I, personally, am hoping this young lady will be able to heal her broken heart in peace and safety.
    Surely that’s what’s important? That she receive all the love, help and support she needs.

  • TngldBlue

    We send people to prison for less of an age difference than this. Just because he is a celebrity and he died does not make him a saint nor does it mean we all must sweep all the bad things under the rug and only speak of them in whispers in dark rooms. You have a rich and famous man dating a 16 year old-not even accounting for the difference in maturity and experience, there is a huge imbalance in power here that is disturbing and creepy.

    • Vidia27

      Perhaps you are indeed correct, but law says differently. Age of consent in California is 16. If her parents approved (And obviously they did, otherwise they would not have let the relationship continue when they first started dating.), why should anyone disapprove?

    • TngldBlue

      Nope. Age of consent in Cali (and several other states btw) is 18. And if the adult is more than 3 years older than the minor it can be charged as rape.

    • Vidia27

      Yeah, I noticed my booboo and edited it while you were typing. lol But, as I said in my edit, it isn’t illegal to date someone and we don’t actually know if they had sex or not. It’s pure speculation they did.

    • TngldBlue

      Regardless of whether they had sex or not (and I find it seriously hard to believe they did not), a 33 year old man dating a 16 year old girl is disturbing. I would not allow my daughter to date someone that old at 16. Even at 18 it would cause me a lot of concern. And just because the parents may have been ok with it (again speculation), doesn’t mean it’s right and no one else should have an opinion about the morality or appropriateness of the actions.

    • Vidia27

      I never said I disagree with you. I wouldn’t allow my daughter (Not that I have one; I have a son.) to date someone twice her age, either. But, still, not EVERYONE has sex at age 16. My son waited until he was 18 with his same-aged long-term girlfriend at the time. Why? Because I raised him right, to wait until he was older. We don’t know anything about her, her parents, how she was raised, or her and Paul’s relationship. To assume and speculate is wrong

    • Tinyfaeri

      …people who have sex at 16 are not raised wrong. Good for your son doing what was best for him and his relationship, but try not to pass quite so much judgment on others. Of course not everyone has sex at 16 – no one said they did. If they do, that doesn’t make them bad people or mean that they were raised wrong. If they do have sex with a 33 year old, however, that does make the 33 year old bad people – that’s what we’re saying. Even if they were not sexually active, a 16 year old is not emotionally ready to be in a romantic relationship with a 33 year old no matter how immature he is or how mature she is.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      yeah you are right. They spent all those years playing Pokemons

    • Vidia27

      Just because you might have been a loosey-Goosey doesn’t mean every girl is at 16.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      OK, I’m gonna kinda ignore your slut shammy weird accusations, because.. weird, but what exactly can a man that age have in common with a 16 year old girl anyway? SERIOUSLY. You want us to believe that it was all purely innocent and they did not consummate their relationship until she was 18 (still sorta creepy) so what was his interest in her at age 16?

    • Surfaces

      You just had a go at someone for “slut shaming” you, but you’ve spent most of this conversation “virgin shaming”! I know many people who have stayed virgins until they turned 18 while dating men older than them, and some who waited even longer until they were married. You don’t get to make fun of people then call the waaambulance because someone did the same to you.

    • Blueathena623

      Virgin shaming? No one has said a damn thing about it being bad if she stayed a virgin.

    • Surfaces

      Actually Eve has expressed rather insulting views insinuating that it’d be impossible for her to have stayed a virgin until the age of 18, such as right above where she says “They spend all those years playing Pokemons”. Or “You want us to believe that it was all purely innocent and they did not consummate their relationship until she was 18″ amongst many other insulting statements. It might be hard for some to believe but people DO stay virgins sometimes. I find that pretty virgin-shamey.

    • Rachel Sea

      What is any person’s interest in anyone else? Age is one of many factors, and it’s not always the most important one.

    • ted3553

      In its truest sense it may be speculation but really…. not for a minute do I believe that they had no sexual contact until she was 18

    • Tinyfaeri

      Tiddlywinks?

    • K

      I think the relationship sounds creepy too, but it is possible to date without having sex. I was with my boyfriend for almost 5 years from 16-21 before we had sex, because we waited until we got married. It really isn’t that hard to have some self control, even if you are a teenager.

    • Tinyfaeri

      Careful! You might fall off that high horse, and I wouldn’t want you to hurt yourself.

    • Byron
    • Man_Of_Sin

      Rape? It’s called unlawful sexual intercourse in that state.

    • helloshannon

      it doesn’t matter that the age of consent is 16 because if the minor is under 18 and the other partner is more than 3 years older, it is statutory rape. see above

    • alice

      because we’re holding a kangaroo court.

      i’ve never been more perplexed and ashamed by this site. :confusedface:

      rape is such a serious allegation. yet most of you here have just
      proudly convicted a person based on tabloid “facts” and blogger
      speculation. the truth is that none of you know when they started dating. neither do i. the closest you have to a source is a UK tabloid saying “they REPORTEDLY have been dating for seven years”

      so let’s run with that. let’s not fact check. let’s just call him a rapist and hold our moral high ground.

      if we’re right? we get that coveted prize of breaking a story, and standing up to celebrity double-standards! huzzah! go mommyish!

      if we’re wrong? we’re reprehensible.

      but hey, that’s worth the gamble. ???

      :headdesk:

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      It’s not breaking a story. Crushable and the Gloss covered it, we did not. The “celebrity double standard” is that we let celebs get away with this bullshit because they are celebs. if this were a 16 year old student and a 33 year old teacher EVERYONE would find it awful. But because this guy was handsome and famous it’s magically OK? It isn’t.

    • alice

      i was more referring to Crushable and Gloss. i know you didn’t “break” it. but you did run with it.

      you know i agree with you on everything on principle: celeb double standards. stat rape. age of consent. all of it.

      but im firmly opposed to treating this situation like fact. put it this way: if this were a larger publication, as EiC, you would never in a million years let that article be published. there’s too many moral and legal repercussions to calling someone a rapist without evidence. you can probably get away with it here, but it still doesn’t feel right to me. there are too many unknowns at play. And no one wants to be the person telling a 15 year old “I’m sorry i publicly called your recently deceased father a rapist. i didn’t have all the facts. my bad!”

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      I’m VERY black and white when it comes to laws of consent. Now, you can speculate he never TOUCHED her until she turned 18. He never “cuddled” with her, or kissed her, or laid a finger on her. If this is what you believe with all of your heart, that’s fine. Let’s speculate, for the bizarreness of it, that this is true. Until she turned 18 that had a ZERO romantic relationship. she was still hanging out with a dude almost 20 years older than her, an attractive dude, with money, and fame, able to impress a FREAKING CHILD with all of these things. Now, if you can say, truthfully, that a 16 year old wouldn’t be impressed by this and that there was nothing skeevy about a man of this age “dating” or spending time with her, so be it. I disagree 100000%. And if there was sexual physical conduct before she became legal age? THAT IS RAPE. I don’t give a fuck how attractive or famous or dead you are

    • Amanda

      Are you brain dead or cannot you read and comprehend words? I 150k% agree with Alice in that you HAVE NO PROOF THAT THIS IS FACT. I wish you did write for a larger publication, not that that would guarantee you any type of real fact checking in this day and age. But nonetheless, the point is, you are accusing a DEAD man of something that may OR MAY NOT even be true. And that “something” IS RAPE. thats a pretty big pill to swallow. I dont care what your “moral compass” tells you about a 16 and 33 yr old dating… if you have no proof to the same about this particular relationship, YOU HAVE TO NO GROUND TO STAND ON. i truly do hope that his daughter and family sue your sorry ass website, which i used to enjoy, for slander. i dont care if this was a celebrity or not… you still have no proof. end. of. story.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      Um, it isn’t slander, because it iS a FACT that anyone having sex with a minor is rape, it doesn’t matter if they are a celeb or NOT.

    • alice

      c’mon, it’s totes libel (not slander, i’m word police today!) if you print that he’s a rapist without any evidence that he had a sex with her when she was underage, or even any evidence that he dated (or knew) this woman while she was underage. it’s one speculation built upon another.

    • EX

      Eve, A) You know I love you. This changes nothing. B) I am not a Paul Walker fan (I will admit to thinking he was attractive in that man-boy way I don’t go for, but that’s where it ends). C) If you had proof he was a rapist (statutory or otherwise) I would have no problem with you bringing it up in the wake of his death (in other words, my complaint does not fall in the “don’t speak ill of the dead” camp). And C) I have to go with Alice on this one. You are calling a man a rapist based on reports that he began dating this woman when she was 16. I know you (sort of) conceded it was possible that if they met when she was 16 they didn’t touch until she turned 18 but what I haven’t heard you concede is that it’s possible (possible!) that the information that they started dating when she was 16 could be incorrect (as it does not appear to have been verified by anyone other than tabloids).

      I so appreciate everything you do to bring rape-culture to light but I really think jumping to say “rape” when the facts have not been verified undermines those efforts. You pointed out that if it was some Joe-schmoe 33 year old dating a 16 year old we would all be up in arms but the thing is – if there was a news story about such a case I would expect that the facts had been verified and we would be talking about something that we could say almost certainly happened.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      I am going with every single headline and the report from his family that he was DATING the girl. They did not say THEY WERE PLATONIC FRIENDS. When you are “dating ” someone it implies a relationship of a sexual or romantic nature.

    • Lily

      Since when does dating someone HAVE to be sexual in nature?

    • alice

      no need to be mean! let’s keep it civil!

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      LOL, I don’t even care, it’s absurd. People are basically simply freaking out because this guy was cute, like that forgives everything

    • alice

      i can’t disagree more! some die hard walker fans might be in that camp, but i’m pitching a tent over in the “facts before speculation” section. my camp is nice, it’s warm, with lots of s’mores and ardent squirrelly fact-checkers

    • EX

      Can you make room for one more? I love s’mores.

    • alice

      i’ll save you, and eve, a cot. :)

  • Lindsey

    It is not against the law in California.

    • helloshannon

      actually it is Statutory Rape in CA “Anyone who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a person under age 18 who is more than three years younger than the actor is guilty of either a misdemeanor or a felony” (http://www.cga.ct.gov/2003/olrdata/jud/rpt/2003-r-0376.htm)

    • helloshannon

      who downvoted a direct quote of the law. an idiot i am sure.

  • Vidia27

    You can say it’s rape, but the law doesn’t … and that is what matters. In all states within our union, age of consent is either 16 or 17. And if her parents did not have issues with her relationship with Paul, neither should you.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      You are 10000000% wrong, see below

    • whiteroses

      In California, the age of consent is 18. And someone who is older than a minor by three years but has intercourse with them anyway is committing a misdemeanor.

  • Kay_Sue

    I already commented on the piece quoted above, but here’s a few more thoughts too. And I should add, I actually had no idea who this guy was before news of his death broke. I am not a fan of the F&F franchise.

    I also don’t condone it and feel like it is super creepy, myself, personally. But it isn’t necessarily illegal–because 16 often is the age of consent. Whether it is right or wrong that laws are written that way is a different discussion, but as it stands today, many states have 16 on the books. Hell, our state just voted in 2012 to alter the age stated in our state constitution from 14 (other laws had it at 16, but the oldest was the constitution and folks were trying to defend based on that to avoid statutory rape charges).

    I also agree with what was said in earlier comments–labeling it rape if she does not is not necessarily right. Not only is she in mourning after the sudden and unexpected death of a partner of 7 years (my husband and I have been together that long) but now she has to defend against these accusations (which someone else had mentioned were already brought up when they started dating). I could not imagine the pain of that label being applied to my relationship after losing my partner. It would be crushing on top of all the pain one would already be going through.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      Anyone who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a person under age 18 who is more than three years younger than the actor is guilty of either a misdemeanor or a felony

    • Kay_Sue

      Not necessarily. The laws vary widely from state to state, and there is literally no federal statute regarding age of consent. This is a quote from Wikipedia, but they also have a lot of sources that can be cross-referenced.

      “Age of consent laws vary widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction,[1] and while most jurisdictions set the age of consent in the range 14 to 18, ages of consent as low as 12 and as high as 21 exist. The laws may also vary by the type of sexual act, the gender of the actors, or other restrictions such as abuse of a position of trust. Some jurisdictions may also make allowances for minors engaged in sexual acts with each other, rather than a single age. Charges resulting from a breach of these laws may range from a misdemeanor such as corruption of a minor, to what is popularly called statutory rape (which is considered equivalent to rape, both in severity and sentencing).”

      This, for example, is a breakdown for consent in my state:

      “South Carolina

      The age of consent in South Carolina is 16 .

      SECTION 16-3-651. Criminal sexual conduct: definitions…(h) “Sexual battery” means sexual intercourse, cunnilingus, fellatio, anal intercourse, or any intrusion, however slight, of any part of a person’s body or of any object into the genital or anal openings of another person’s body, except when such intrusion is accomplished for medically recognized treatment or diagnostic purposes.

      SECTION 16-3-655. Criminal sexual conduct with a minor; aggravating and mitigating circumstances; penalties; repeat offenders. (B) A person is guilty of criminal sexual conduct with a minor in the second degree if:…(2) the actor engages in sexual battery with a victim who is at least fourteen years of age but who is less than sixteen years of age and the actor is in a position of familial, custodial, or official authority to coerce the victim to submit or is older than the victim. However, a person may not be convicted of a violation of the provisions of this item if he is eighteen years of age or less when he engages in illicit but consensual sexual conduct with another person who is at least fourteen years of age. In addition, mistake of age may be used as a defense.

      SECTION 16-15-140. Committing or attempting lewd act upon child under sixteen. It is unlawful for a person over the age of fourteen years to willfully and lewdly commit or attempt a lewd or lascivious act upon or with the body, or its parts, of a child under the age of sixteen years, with the intent of arousing, appealing to, or gratifying the lust or passions or sexual desires of the person or of the child.[84]“

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      This is for CA

    • Kay_Sue

      Then it comes down to whether or not they had intercourse before she was eighteen, which is information we are not privy to.

      My uncle was 21 and my aunt was 15 when they started dating. They didn’t have sex until after their wedding, which was after she turned 18. It’s not unheard of or impossible that he met a girl and fell in love. It’s creepy regardless.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      This was not the first teen he dated either

    • Kay_Sue

      I guess the point I keep coming back to is that there is a young woman in mourning over the loss of her partner of nearly a decade and the internet has decided to label him a rapist. I’m all for fixing age of consent laws–I don’t think they do enough in most states to protect young people–but maligning a mourning woman is a bit much.

      And that’s what we are doing when we label this as rape. We are telling her, “Your relationship was not legitimate, your boyfriend was a pervert, and you are a victim of sexual assault”–and yet I haven’t seen one post about it where anyone has actually talked to her and asked for her opinion on the matter. Isn’t her opinion really the one that matters at this point?

    • Bic

      I agree The time to bring this up was when he was still alive, what’s the point now. Even if he had more than one relationship with a teenager, It’s not like he’s going to be doing it again. This speculation doesn’t effect him, it effects his grieving partner, daughter, family and friends. It’s not even like it will put anyone else off doing something similar, oooh big fuss after I’m dead whatev. I agree 16 is way too young with that age gap and yes if true, it’s creepy as fuck but this is way too late to help more than harm.

    • Kay_Sue

      This kind of sums up my view on the entire situation. I don’t mind conversations about consent laws–I feel like we need to have them. This one does not seem productive though in light of the harm these conversations could have on a woman that’s in a very vulnerable state.

    • JLH1986

      I agree. But part of me also says when is the right time to have this conversation? Ideally before he passed, but this didn’t come to light until his passing. So is that fact supposed to be ignored for a year and then it’s discussed? It’s just so difficult. The conversation needs to be had, but his family who did NOT (to our knowledge) commit any crimes have to read this stuff. they have to deal with the fallout for something, that to them was normal, was life. That makes me feel for them, because how do you process that? Their loved one is dead and (justified or not) is being called names in the public, delegitimizing an alleged 5-7 year relationship. Then defending your partner or father or brother or son or friend? Yuckity yuck.

    • Kay_Sue

      I don’t necessarily think talking about it in general is a problem, but it should be in the context of a larger conversation about the disparity inherent in age of consent laws, and I don’t think while the wound is still fresh is the best time to talk about it. If this was public knowledge in 2009–the oldest “article” I could find on it–why was the conversation not held then versus when this family is so vulnerable? If it was public knowledge, why wasn’t an investigation held? Why did her parents never bring charges? Everything I’ve read from her family has been entirely positive.

      There’s also the fact that I’m surprised that none of his fans defending him have brought up–while all of the sources I’ve found from earlier than this most recent rush mention that they were 16 when they met, at least one has said that she was older when they actually started dating. It’s a lot of speculation versus the real facts that can sustain a conversation on consent laws.

      At the end of the day, neither Jasmine Pilchard-Gosnell nor her family pressed charges. So I am not entirely sure that passing judgement on their relationship is our responsibility.

    • JLH1986

      I’m not suggesting passing judgment on them, but I think it brings up the opportunity for a broader discussion about age of consent laws, consistency between states etc. etc. But for the purposes of this article (and many others who inexplicably blew up with this info 4 years after their relationship was public) I feel for the family because these articles are based on Walker and Pilchard-Gosnell. When it could be had about any number of people. The conversation definitely needs to be had. But I’m not sure that basing the discussion soley on this relationship is helpful to anyone.

    • Kay_Sue

      Agreed.

      There are so many examples that can be brought into the discussion that this one seems frivolous to me.

      At the end of the day, the only one person being hurt by these discussions is Pilchard-Gosnell. That’s it. America has an amazing ability to segregate celebrities from their wrongdoings–look at Chris Brown and Sean Penn (who prove that we don’t really give a flying hoot about criminal domestic violence on a national scale), or hell, Jimmy Page who kidnapped a 14-year-old girl in 1972…so Paul Walker will never be disparaged by the outrage at all. She’s the only one that will have to live with the stain.

    • Byron

      It’s not unlawful in the states where the age of consent is 16 though. Also, there’s no proof of “sexual intercource” so this is you speculating and using this speculation to defame a dead guy.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      Right, because a middle aged dude is hanging out with a teenager for all that time, never having sex with her. They were just going to Build A Bear

    • K

      Some people do have self control.

    • Byron

      You don’t even know how much hanging out happened though. He might have just been fimling movies or whatever he was doing while she was attending school and whatnot. I mean, who knows what they did or how frequently they met. You’re just assuming a whole mountain of things here and are trying to use common sense to explain it away. It still doesn’t make your claims any closer to true, it just makes them likely.

      To call someone a rapist over the mere likelyhood that they are without any proof is called defamation of character and you could be sued by them for doing that. Or, well, you could if he wasn’t dead. Hell, maybe his girlfriend would sue people on his stead. Wouldn’t that be a treat. I wonder if she’s actually able to do that legally.

      Anyways, when did 33 become “middle aged”? I can see you writing a rage post about some kid calling a 33 year old woman middle aged and how 33 is the new 23 and stuff lol.

  • TwentiSomething Mom

    Yes, the relationship was inappropriate but calling it rape is a very strong word. Do we know the kind of relationship they had? Did her family know? Did they get to meet him and spend time with them and possibly come to the conclusion they really were in love despite their age difference?
    They were still together when he died, it wasn’t like he had a cycle of 16-17 year olds that he replaced when they came of legal age which could lead to the conclusion that he was into underage girls. I do think you need to watch how you categorize rape on this site because it is offensive to those that have actually been raped and exploited.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      He also dated a different 16 year old girl when he was 28. Sorry, still creeped over here

  • Byron

    I’m a results-oriented person. Yes, this technically was statutory
    rape in some states and just creepy in others. That’s the “in general”
    stuff though. In THIS specific situation, since the relationship lasted
    7years and they never split up, I am inclined to say that it was
    beneficial for the girl and a “good reletionship”. Can you show that it
    wasn’t? Do you have any evidence to suggest that their relationship had
    anything that you would deem “bad”? If you ignore the age they begun
    dating, is there any other thing that would ever make you suggest they
    had a problematic relationship? I think if there was, it’d have been
    posted.

    That being the case, if you wish to call it rape, you’ll be
    forced to concede that rape can lead into a good relationship, which is
    one of the oldest mysogynistic type of rhetoric available, that of the
    rape victim who eventually grew to like being raped and lived happily
    ever after. Since you wouldn’t wanna do that (I assume), the only
    alternative should logically be that it wasn’t rape.

    • TngldBlue

      Here’s the problem with your “good relationship” theory. There is an imbalance of power and authority when the age difference is that wide. There is a reason teachers, coaches, etc are specifically prohibited from relations with students-because of the position of power they hold. And in this case that power was exponentially greater by virtue of his status as a famous and wealthy actor. So how healthy can a relationship be when one party has extreme influence and the other is so much younger she doesn’t have the maturity or wisdom to know when or if she is being taken advantage of or not being heard by the other person? The lure of dating a celebrity can cause even the most street savvy woman to lose herself, let alone a 16 year old girl without much life experience.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      Beep beep! attention clean up in aisle 7, you are forgetting Byron is our commenter who comes along during any discussion about child sexual abuse and tries to tell us how cool it all is

    • TngldBlue

      Oh shit, I fed the troll.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      Nom nom nom

    • Byron

      Excuse me? Do you have like, some sort of tracking mechanism for all my posts or something? Cause if you do it’s faulty and is leaving out huge chunks of my messages lol.
      You’ve got to do better than that if you wanna counter someones point. Ah well, you’re calling a dead man a rapist without evidence, why should I expect better for myself. Still though, awfully personal of a retort. I should feel honored or something.

    • JLH1986

      But you wouldn’t know this information when she was 16. Which is when the charges would have been brought. She’s 23 years old now. She can date an 80 year old if that’s her fancy. But 7 years ago when she was 16, the State of California decided that the age of consent was 18. So the rest of your argument wouldn’t have been valid then. I would argue it’s not valid now, because I think anyone who is legitimately old enough to parent a teenager shouldn’t be dating them for a myriad of reasons already discussed, but clearly we will disagree there. Bottom line is this, if Walker and this girl had any sexual contact between the age of 16-18, Walker committed a crime, regardless of the outcome.

    • Byron

      Yes, and that’s kind of also why it’s dumb to have these laws cause had charges been brought, this 7 year long relationship would have never happened. If he hadn’t died who knows how long their relationship would have lasted, too.

      How can you say with such confidence that this relationship never happening would have been good when you don’t know what kind of a relationship it was? That’s an awfully arrogant stance to take. The girl was an adult for 5 years of these 7, if there was some issue she wouldn’t have stayed with him for that long. Do you have anything to suggest that she was staying against her will?

      If they were happy together and had a good life that’s what ultimately matters. Do you know many
      16-year-olds which manage to keep a relationship going for 7 years? 7
      months is near-impressive around that age lol. With the breakup/divorce rates being what they are in this country, staying together for 7 years is as much of a show of a good relationship as anything could be.

    • Eric Strauss

      I like your logic – it’s a good argument.

      However it misses one important factor. An immoral act can lead to good outcomes without absolving the wrongdoer of his culpability. If my dad beat me for shoplifting and it prevented me from stealing again, I’d still have a moral problem with the beating. Utilitarianism isn’t the only normative system at play here. And I think any decent person has a problem with a 30 something man engaging in sex with a 16 year old girl.

    • Byron

      What defines the morality of an act, if not for the reason or desire which fueled it? Would you say your father was just a violent individual looking for a chance to beat you and using your shoplifting as an excuse is the same as him only ever doing it for the first time when you shoplifted to teach you a lesson?

      Yes, beating is never “good” but there’s a whole chasm of difference between someone who just looks for a reason to beat up his kid and someone who is so shaken and afraid of what their kid will become that has to resort to beating them. I would indeed agree with some kind of action being taken for the worried father but of course he shouldn’t be treated the same way the violent father would be.

      You can have a problem all you like but if the girl is happy enough to stay with the man for 7 years minimum (who knows how long they’d have been together if he didn’t die) then who are we to say their being together is “wrong”?

      Yes, neither system is perfect, at least mine wouldn’t have prevented a seemingly happy and good relationship from existing though.

    • Eric Strauss

      It’s true that your normative system “wouldn’t have prevented a seemingly happy and good relationship from existing,” provided you knew in advance that it the relationship would work out. If you don’t require that advance knowledge to proclaim the relationship “ok,” then your normative system also wouldn’t prevent a predator from sexually abusing a teenage girl.

    • Byron

      Yes, and thus we come to the juicy center of this debate.

      What is more worthwhile? More happy good relationships existing or fewer abuse cases happening?

      I believe it is a pity to sacrifice potential happiness in fear of potential tragedy. I feel that living life in fear of what ill may occur so much so that you shut off potentially incredible things is wrong and not what true freedom means.

      I prefer to live in a world with the most ways of being happy possible. I don’t care about living in a world with the least dangers cause even if you never encounter any danger or face mistreatment, that doesn’t mean you’ll actually be happy. I prefer to take that risk and risk abuse for the sake of happiness than to be “safe” while eeking out a boring and meangingless life.

      There’s this saying my mother used to tell me that I guess I agree with. It goes something like: “I’d prefer to set 100 criminals free than convict one innocent person”. I worry our society is turning into “I’d prefer to kill 100 innocents than let one criminal get away with it”, which sucks.

    • Eric Strauss

      Look, I strongly believe in liberty in individual autonomy. I agree that in general society ought to ere on the side of fewer rules, and to accept more risk in exchange for more liberty. But that is for adults. Adolescents are the least likely to make wise decisions of any demographic, and the most likely to make really bad decisions. Each of us adults was protected from our own stupidity as kids, and we have an obligation to protect our kids from their own stupidity. It’s not just a parental concern, it’s a societal concern. There will be times when an adult preys upon a child – either through manipulation, or threat, or perhaps even some real connection felt by one or both parties. It really doesn’t matter. The fact is we don’t, and shouldn’t trust adolescents with the decision to date full grown adults. More importantly, we absolutely do not and should not trust 33 year old adult males with the decision to date 16 year old girls. We distrust it for ample good reason, and we deem it sufficiently nefarious to make it illegal. The fact that there appears to be an example where such a “relationship” actually became a real relationship does not mean the behavior should not be criminalized.

      Making old pervy guys at least wait until a girl’s 18 before attempting to exploit her seems a pretty reasonable law to me.

  • Blueathena623

    Rape or non-rape issues aside, if I, as a 31 year old female started dating a 16 year old guy, everyone would think there was something wrong with me and think I was just after some teenage tail. But a 33 yr old guy dates a 16 yr old girl, well, maybe she was just really mature and they had a lot in common.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      No fucking shit. My head may explode here.

    • Blueathena623

      All this “but they stayed together for 7 years so its ok!” stuff is blowing my mind too. Apparently dating a teenager is ok as long as you don’t dump them.

    • keelhaulrose

      And if he was a teacher they’d be out for blood.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      No shit. Teachers have authority over them.

  • ted3553

    ugh. I went through this with my oldest stepdaughter. She was 16 and dated a 26 year old for 3 years. We checked into it, legally, not rape since she was over the age limit. I also knew she was going into it with a conscientious mind (although a warped teenaged brain) and knew very clearly what she was doing. It’s absolutely wrong that Paul Walker started this relationship with a 16 year old when he was a grown man whether they had sex or not-super creepy and wrong. I do agree however, that it may be very likely she was in the relationship knowing exactly what she was doing although very misguided and since he didn’t seem to be in a position of power over her like a teacher or cop, if the laws in her state say it wasn’t, it wasn’t rape. i don’t throw that word around for fear it loses power and effect when it is needed.

    • ted3553

      and to add to my comment above, at no time were we at all happy with it. She moved in with him and we couldn’t legally do anything about it because here, that’s legal

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      I want you to write this for me. If ya want. email at eveevevawter AT Gmail dot come

    • Crazispeedemon

      Misguided? Just because he was older than her? It may be taboo in your eyes, but definitely not wrong in all cases. Certainly, you gave your daughter a pass for 3 years. I don’t understand how you can be so hypocritical about someone else’s relationship.

    • ted3553

      I think you misread my comment completely. First of all, it’s not like they were 60 and 70, she was 16 and he was 33. Second, by saying that my husband and I checked into the statutory and rape laws in our location, but couldn’t press charges, how does that equate with giving her a pass?

  • Adam Fitzgerald

    (<This guys wife) can I just say, I was sixteen when I started dating my husband, he was 20, people still had problems with it, even though I told them repeatedly we weren't having sex. If it was my daughter (see adorable girl in pic) that would be a whole lotta nope.what does a sixteeyear old have in common with a 33 year old actor? Besides how awesome an actor he was (& was he really? Considering he was like his character in real life to the point of dying in a car crash) a girl in high school should focus on school. And all of this from a teen mom and woman who got married at 17

  • True G.R.I.T.S

    well i’ve been in a relationship with the same man for almost 9yrs and i was 17 when we met and he’s now 40yo…now this in nothing rare in the “real world” but i highly doubt a man of his caliber would risk his career and freedom when lets be honest he would not have d ANY problems finding a lady friend…ppl dont even know if she was emancipated or what 16 is the legal age of consent in some states, i guess theres too many stories on his death, folks need something to draw folks in…now not only did this woman lose her longtime boyfriend, folks callin the man a damn rapist smh

  • http://fairlyoddmedia.com/ Frances Locke

    That first commenter is dead wrong too. The legal age in Cali is 18, not 16. Even if they didn’t consumate the relationship, I think this is at best weird and at worst a sign of some kind of control. And I say this as a woman who dated a much older man when I was 22 and I still feel weird about it now that I’m older.

    • Crazispeedemon

      Reading way too much into it, lady.

  • AlbinoWino

    When I was in high school my friend who was 17 was dating a guy who was 23. It wasn’t the worst thing ever I guess and we didn’t think much of it. Plus, we enjoyed having someone around who would buy us booze. I only found as slightly creepy and, more than anything, super lame once I reached the age of 23. I thought to myself, hmmm, I’m pretty sure it would be almost pathetic of me to be spending all of my time with high schoolers at that age. I mean, I had just gotten my bachelor’s.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      23. This was six years. Add ten years to that.

    • Crazispeedemon

      So. What.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      So what is that I’m not a fan of child sexual predators

    • AlbinoWino

      Eww. That really does just come across as creepy. It’s funny because we used to like to think my friend who was dating this guy got him because she was SO mature but as I became an adult I realized it was the opposite. He was just super childish so dating a high schooler made sense to him

  • Janok Place

    Now as someone who has been the victim of rape, and sexual assault… I resent this. Yes, teenagers make bad decisions. Yes, it`s a little creepy. However I`m in Canada, age of consent is 16 and when I was in school, it was 14. They have been together for 7 years, he`s a famous celebrity. I think the time to pass judgement has come and gone folks. You`ve had your chance. As far as we`ve been told, she loved him very dearly. He is now dead, and she is grieving. I fail to see who benefits from degrading and humiliating the couple now.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      Right. So once someone dies, even if they were morally reprehensible, we need to just “let it go?”

    • Crazispeedemon

      YES

    • Janok Place

      That`s not my point, my point is that we don`t have enough information to claim it was rape. We don`t know the age of consent where this relationship took place. We don`t know that they were sexually active or just emotionally involved. There simply isn`t enough information at this point in time for me to feel comfortable passing judgement especially given the circumstances.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      Best case scenario? He was grooming her.

    • Janok Place

      Yes, Eve. Best case scenario it was a shitty scenario. I will concede to that but I just don`t see why the whole news world waited until after he died, five years after she became a legal adult, to address the issue. I really think more research has to be done before accusations so hefty as rape start getting tossed around. I`ll be more then willing to read more in depth information on the subject, but I`m reserving judgement until more information surfaces.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      Well I had no idea who this dude was but had I known I would have stuck him in the Polanski corner

    • Janok Place

      Yes, I believe you would have. And I like you Eve, and I usually agree with you. I DO agree that it`s creepy and wrong and totally inappropriate. I just think everyone needs to wait a little while and dig a little deeper and come out with the whole story. Obviously a 16 year old girl who dates a 33 year old has some deep seated issues and insecurities. Likely she depended on him as if her life depended on him… she must be crushed, devastated and feel hopelessly lost. I think words of encouragement are in order. I`ve seen you do it before, beautifully written articles of support for victims and people suffering. I believe you have the power to put something out there that will lend support, strength and hopefully bring clarity. I don`t think we need to contribute to the pain and negativity. There has to be a better way.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      Thanks. I do think she is getting a lot of support. Even just from the comments here many people are all ” hey it’s no big they were happy.” I’m sorry for her loss, I truly am. But there have been a MINUSCULE amount of news agencies willing to risk the wrath of angry readers and say ” waitaminnit.. This isn’t very cool” – Crushable and The Gloss have. I agree with them. As a mom and a woman and someone who has a 9 year old daughter I HAVE to call out inappropriate behavior between adults and kids. I could not live with myself if I didn’t. I respect everyone feeling sad he is dead. I support your grief process, even if he was just an actor you admired. But for me to stay silent and ignore the big issue would be me saying “fuck you ” to every teenage girl abused by someone with wealth , power and the authority that comes with age. I cannot do that.

    • alice

      hehehe. who downvotes this?

      i want to hear from this person sitting at their computer going “I DO KNOW THE ANSWERS TO ALL OF THAT!” :)

      research jasmine pilchard-gosnell. you will not be able to find an official source for:

      1. her birthdate
      2. how old she was when she met paul walker
      3. how old she was when she became sexually involved w/ PW
      4. where she was when #3 took place

  • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

    A 33 year old dating a 16 year old is a rapist. From every single news source, including the Washington post, they were dating, from age 16. As discussed below, even if they engaged in no sexual activity he was GROOMING her. So at the worst, it’s rape. At the best? It’s child predator behavior. It’s a 17 year age difference , and NOT between someone age 25 and someone 42. If you have kids, are you going to be cool with your 16 year old dating someone who is 33? For all you walker defenders, I sure do hope so.

    • SuzieQ

      Question. Do Celine Dion and her husband bother you? They met when she was twelve, their age gap is even larger (26 years), and he was an authority figure to her. Or do you not care because they eventually married?

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      OH NO, that is very very wrong too. well, let’s put it this way, It was wrong at the time. I don’t care about age differences past the age of 18 really, I can see it as a CREEPY and unfortunate when and if an 18 year old hooks up with a 60 year old, BUT anything under 18 with an age gap spooks me, unless you wanna say a 16 year old dating a 17 year old or 18 year old. I was 16 when I dated a 19 year old, for me that was too much of a difference in retrospect.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      What happens on one’s 18 birthday for you think that?

    • Adam

      *Triggering question* so feel free not to answer – but do you consider your ex a child rapist? Personally I think it’s trickier when there is an age gap of a few years and the younger person is 16/ 17… I think there is still likely to be a power imbalance though. It’s hard though because once you start saying any one incident is less awful (such as a statutory case in which the partners are close in age), you enter into the very dangerous territory of denying that rape is rape.

      In this case however it seems completely cut and dried that the relationship was inappropriate. The man was in his 30s!

      P.S. As an aside I was pretty upset when I discovered that Simone de Beauvoir had sexually exploited her high-school age students. I wish this was better known because I still see her cited on a lot of feminist blogs and I don’t think that’s right.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      You sounds utterly ridiculous if you ask me. If he was in it for the sex he could have just married her a, than the sex would have been legal in the state.

  • CMc

    I get it why people are upset and I am not trying to belittle a very serious situation. A 17 year age difference is out of control creepy. If they had sex prior to her being 18 then I have no words. But I wasn’t there and I all I can do is assume. What I do know for a fact is that his ex is grieving. Her world is ending right now. She just lost her love of 7 years 3 days ago. If you don’t want to show him respect I completely 100% understand. But show it to her. She doesn’t need this. She doesn’t need to be the new face of statutory rape days after her boyfriend dies. Yes, address the situation, but not right this second. Why days after he died? Words cannot hurt him anymore, but they sure as hell can hurt the people left behind who are suffering. Like his ex, his daughter, his best friend who tried to save him, his parents. There are people still alive that are affected. Like I said. I get it. I just think addressing this right now causes pain to those left behind more than it helps a cause.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      As I said in my post I have sympathy for his friends, family and fans. But TBH, there is no correct “mourning time” for when you stop and think that maybe a 33 year old rich famous celebrity dating a 16 year old girl wasn’t the best situation.

    • CMc

      The problem though is that articles across the web aren’t saying that this wasn’t the best situation. If that was the language being used I wouldn’t have a problem with it. They are calling him a rapist, her a victim, him a pedophile and pervert, her a naive stupid girl blinded by his celebrity. So while there is no correct mourning time, I will say that a mourning period lasts longer than a couple of days. To slander him is to slander those that are close to him and they don’t need that right now. By no means am I saying give him a pass, or that this isn’t serious or doesn’t need to be addressed, I just don’t see why any of this needs to be a conversation days after his death.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      You’re right in the fact this conversation should have happened with her parents when he was alive, probably involving the police.

    • CMc

      I am definitely not disputing that. I guess what I’m trying to get at is in this specific situation my empathy for those still living is stronger than my anger at the deceased.

    • thevk

      CMc, I completely agree with your comments. Other than the obvious, NO ONE has any idea of the nature of the relationship when she was 16. It’s all speculation and assumptions. And you know what they say about ASSuming too much. We don’t know what happened with their parents. Maybe there WERE conversations. We don’t know what happened behind the scenes.

      Who the hell knows. The only person who knows is Jasmine. It’s all a moot point, right? The girl is a grown ass woman now. From all I’ve read, she has a good head on her shoulders, went to college (very EASILY could have skipped it, knowing her man was super rich – she gets points for that in my book), and it looks like she’s close with Paul’s daughter. She wasn’t some little kid who was kept on the down low – their families knew each other, they were seen in public, pictures of them together give the impression of a relationship that seemed very at ease.

      It’s in the past. The guy is dead. Eve you have spent WAY too much energy on this today. For the past however many hours you have basically retorted every person who has a different opinion than your own. If he were still alive, yeah I could see a healthy discussion on this, but he is. DEAD. There is nothing to become of this 180+ thread conversation. I wouldn’t consider this healthy dialogue because you aren’t open to anyone elses’ opinions that differ from yours. Give it a rest.

    • thevk

      Let me also say that YES, the age different is weird and I would be totally creeped out if my daughter came home and said she was dating someone way older.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      “Eve you have spent WAY too much energy on this today. For the past however many hours you have basically retorted every person who has a different opinion than your own. If he were still alive, yeah I could see a healthy discussion on this, but he is. DEAD. There is nothing to become of this 180+ thread conversation. I wouldn’t consider this healthy dialogue because you aren’t open to anyone elses’ opinions that differ from yours. Give it a rest.”

      Yeah, I’m real sorry I care a little too much about issues like this for your tastes. And no, when it comes to my “opinion” about adults “dating” teens twenty years younger than them? I’m not “open” to ANYONE else’s opinions on that.

    • thevk

      Then why even bother posting these things, because then it just ends up being Eve’s show when you’re not even remotely open to other possibilities? There are some sick assholes out there who do sick things. Don’t think that I somehow DON’T care about the issues. Because you don’t know me and what myself or family members have gone through. But I am willing to NOT assume that I know all the details.

  • HB

    There are definitely a lot of assumptions going on here. That they did in fact start dating when she was 16, who confirmed this, him or her or maybe her mom? No one? One article in the daily mail stated they had been together for 7 years. Maybe they met when she was 16 but didn’t start dating until after she turned 18. Where does it say that they lived in California? Everyone keeps bringing up the age of consent in CA, but does anyone know if they actually lived there when they met/started dating? No? Anyone? please don’t let little things like facts get in the way of accusing someone of being a rapist, when wild speculation will suffice.

    Forthe record, I do think it was creepy and also possibly illegal. Unfortunately statutory rape law is arbitrarily applied, usually when the younger partner’s parents have a problem with the older partner. It’s possible her parents didn’t see an issue and chose not to report it. Who knows? This is all speculation. We don’t know for sure, I know all the writers here love their OMG And I CAN’T EVEN and RAGE strokes, but a little fact checking goes a long way.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      I don’t give a damn if they lived on the moon. And if I can’t have a “rage stroke” over issues of child sex abuse than I’m pretty much a garbage human so I will continue to rage, thanks

    • HB

      Point being, the age of consent is different in different states, so if they did in fact start dating when she was 16 if they were living somewhere else, it may have been perfectly legal. Once again, this is all speculation, who the hell knows what happened besides her or him or their parents.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      Perfectly legal and perfectly wrong

    • HB

      Ah, see that is a different issue, and also one I completely agree with. But, I don’t agree with declaring someone a rapist with no facts, and only speculation.

    • http://Mommyish.com/ Eve Vawter

      Child sexual predator would have made my headline way too long. And wouldn’t make the situation ANY better

    • Man_Of_Sin

      Why exactly is it wrong? Rationale?

    • Man_Of_Sin

      Child sexual abuse covers sex with under 12 year olds. Anything above that is called unlawful sex with a minor in California. Also, dating=/=sex.

  • Flynn950

    Hi Eve, never seen any of his movies maybe only the first Fast and Furious. He was low profile, never gave Mr. Walker much thought until the tragic incident a few days ago. He’s not like some actors where they are plastered daily. He kept a low profile. The age difference is not big deal these days, like you mentioned Bradley Cooper. I first read that this Jasmine is 23 and been dating Paul Walker for seven years. I had to do the math and thought like you… huh? She was 16 and he 33. I first thought was to Catch A Predator with Chris Hansen moment. Also, I just read that his BFF and ex Aubrianna Atwell, 28 first dated Paul about 12 years ago. That would put her in the 16 year old range as well and Paul at 28ish? I would not be cool, if my 16 year old daughter was dating a 33 year old man. IMO. If Paul was just working at the grocery store and not a famous, rich, handsome actor, would Jasmine’s family be ok with it?

    • Man_Of_Sin

      There are no laws regarding dating.

  • FF4life

    Eve… I put statutory rape on the same level as birth rape. Adding rape next to a word delegitimizes actually rape. Anyone remember that? Old fashioned grab girl in an alley and literally force yourself on her. I don’t care for sensational celebrity deaths. They’re annoying and we have had a terrible train derailment in my town this week… Yet this guy is the one everyone is going on and on and on about on Facebook. A dirtbag yes… But a rapist? NOPE. Not buying it.

    • helloshannon

      so date rape, marital rape and statutory rape do not cut the mustard for you? rape has to be a stranger in the alley? you are WRONG and the fact that you think that delegitimizes rape. there are millions of women who would tell you that you are wrong. and by the letter of the LAW, it was statutory rape so therefore he was a statutory rapist. that’s have the effing LAW works. no one is asking you buy anything, it is a FACT.

  • doxgukka

    i think we should all stop making the assumption that they were fucking.

  • connie Sugden

    This will probably go down as my most unpopular internet post ever. When I was 17 I lost my virginity to a guy who was 29. I was not raped and I very much resent anybody trying to re-write my personal history and tell me that I was. Was it inappropriate? Of course. But I was not raped. To label me as a rape victim is really insulting to people that were actually raped.

    • Eric Strauss

      I’ve made the point in the comments that “shouldn’t the grieving young woman have some say in defining her own narrative? Must we foist a victimhood upon her that she may neither want nor identify with?” And I identified this perspective I voiced as “feminist.”

      And boy did I get called out for it. People are fixated on the 16 and 33 year old thing. And I get that. But when I think of this woman now, as a 23 year old, I think “grieving widow” over “corrupted minor.” And I wonder, how would she prefer to be perceived. Wouldn’t she prefer those of us observing from afar prefer we afford her the dignity of a widow? By focusing on the admittedly disturbing beginning of her now-lost relationship – by calling her dead significant other a rapist – we de-legitimize her relationship. I think we deny her the dignity that any person suffering through the death of a loved one deserves.

      Additionally, I agree that rape is not a word that should be thrown about wantonly, or watered down by applying the label to crimes such as corruption of a minor.

    • Eric Strauss

      I’ve made the point in the comments that “shouldn’t the grieving young woman have some say in defining her own narrative? Must we foist a victimhood upon her that she may neither want nor identify with?” And I identified this perspective I voiced as “feminist.”

      And boy did I get called out for it. People are fixated on the 16 and 33 year old thing. And I get that. But when I think of this woman now, as a 23 year old, I think “grieving widow” over “corrupted minor.” And I wonder, how would she prefer to be perceived. Wouldn’t she prefer those of us observing from afar prefer we afford her the dignity of a widow? By focusing on the admittedly disturbing beginning of her now-lost relationship – by calling her dead significant other a rapist – we de-legitimize her relationship. I think we deny her the dignity that any person suffering through the death of a loved one deserves.

      Additionally, I agree that rape is not a word that should be thrown about wantonly, or watered down by applying the label to crimes such as corruption of a minor.

  • Wannabevenus

    Back in the early 70s my cousin, age 14, eloped with a 65 year old and got married. Talk about creepy…OTOH they stayed married until he passed away. Things like that weren’t totally unheard of even in the 70s, even if that WAS a little extreme.

  • Ladyberd

    The thing is in many European country the age of consent is 16.

    • helloshannon

      that’s nice. and irrelevant.

    • Man_Of_Sin

      And most states of the US. Also, there is no law on dating.

    • Virtual_InsanitySux

      Oh, so now you are pretending to be a Black Man ? Before you were a White woman with horn-rimmed glasses..and you called yourself “Man of …(whatever) anyway…Boooooooooo!!!!

  • Eric Strauss

    I’m reading through all the comments and replies here, and Eve’s battling in the trenches, throwing blows left and right. Then it occurs to me:

    She’s not just getting internet sidetracked like the rest of us. She’s doing her actual job. Man. If it were my job to comment on stuff online, I’d get employee of the month for sure! Of course, she has to actually write the articles too, so…

    • Man_Of_Sin

      No, she made a claim that dating is against the law which is false and this is old news.

  • Guest

    This is disgusting. This man, who died an awful death, has only been dead for four days. Did you know that you cannot call someone a rapist if you don’t have proof? That’s defamation of character. And your little article here could be considered libel. I don’t believe for a second that you and your comrades over at Crushable and The Gloss “just found out” about this relationship as it has been going on for SEVEN YEARS. You have no idea about the details of their relationship. Obviously, her parents knew about the relationship since this poor girl is being comforted by her mother right now. If you Google “Paul Walker’s girlfriend” you will see that her family was well aware and supportive of the relationship. According to her uncle, Jasmine was like a stemother to Meadow and the relationship was serious enough that marriage was being considered. This doesn’t sound like she was being “groomed” or was even raped by Paul. That sounds like a loving, committed relationship. You claim to care about this girl. Bull. There is NO reason why you had to write this article now. If you cared so much why not do it BEFORE he died? Guess the timing wsn’t as good. You have slandered a man who is not here to defend himself and all you wanted was page clicks for your stupid website. My thoughts and prayers are with Jasmine and Meadow and the rest of Paul’s family and friends. Part of me hopes that none of them see this garbage (especially Meadow) but part of me does because you deserve to be sued.

  • Guest

    I just wanted to clarify my earlier statement about needing proof before accusing someone of rape. I did not mean rape victims have to do so. Obviously, a woman knows when she has been raped. But, in this case, the writer of this article seems to have already tried and convicted Paul Walker. After doing some Internet research of my own, the only websites I found that are covering the “scandalous” nature of Paul and Jasmine’s relationship are: Crushable, Mommyish, Media Takeout, Business News, and…Perez Hilton. Because those seem like really credible sources there. Insert eyeroll. So I’ll just go on believing what I did before: that Paul was a talented actor, by all accounts a good, down-to-earth guy (and these are by people who actually KNEW him) that was lost too soon. May he rest in peace.

  • Maddi Holmes

    Why is it that people assume dating = having sex? I’ve been dating my boyfriend for 4 months and we are yet to have sex because we’re not ready. We have no way of knowing if they waited until she was of age to have a physical relationship and it’s also totally none of our business.

  • Chilan

    I was saddened by the news of his premature death. However, I am now disturbed. All I know I is that his daughter is 15, which means that when his daughter was born his now girlfriend would have been 8!! Disgusting! I cannot imagine any loving, sane father approving of their 16 yr old dating a 33 year old man. I’m pretty sure that Mr. Walker wouldn’t have wanted that for his 15 year old daughter Meadow.

  • Man_Of_Sin

    There is no law on dating you uneducated…urgh!

  • proxy03

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olIqKoyQmhg

    R.I.P Paul Walker We Miss Youu

  • Man_Of_Sin

    Brad Pitt was 26 when he dated Juliette Lewis who was 16 at
    the time. As did Marvin Gaye, if the parents don’t complain and the minor is 13 or older the law usually turns the other way. Cause seriously…

  • Ricardo Aguilera

    Aren’t some stages setting the age of consent at 16?

  • China

    It depends on the state your in. There is like 16 states that allow you to date young women at 16 years old and it’s legal.

  • Michael Thomas

    As the father of a 16 year old girl, I can say without a doubt that in NOOOOOOOO way would I let her date a 33 year old MAN, even if it WAS Paul Walker.. now on the other hand ( im playing devils advocate here) there is a side of me that says ” what about her future?”, I mean come on Paul Walker.. $$$$$ right? and if he treated her good and didn’t abuse her.. I.E. give her drugs and hit her..,, would it be that bad?, ( I know a couple, she is 44 and he is 23 and they have been together since HE was 16 and they have 2 kids and happily married so go figure) now what if she had a 16 or 18 or 21 year old BF, will not ALL of them at some time want to do the nasty?, well he!! yes they will, im 43 and I remember well being 16,, DUH?, SOOOO. my point is if she is mature enough to know what LOVE is vs LUST and from talking with him I can surmise that his intentions are true and that he wants to marry her and take care of her… would I give my blessing? I don’t know, mabey. I’ve never been there, so I don’t know BUT I can say people really need to get off the RAPE wagon, there was NO rape, she wanted it as bad or more than him, I know that because I have a 16 year old and I have heard from my wife who my daughter tells EVERYTHING to, that most of them are having sex with their BF’s, so lets get off it people, 100 years ago THIS would NOT be a big deal, shoot for that matter as close as the 1800′s 14 was marriage material…