• Thu, Mar 7 - 11:20 am ET

In Bizarre Birth Story, Doctor Threatens To Call Police & Force A Pregnant Woman To Have A C-Section To Save Her Child’s Life

c-sectionA Tampa Bay doctor may be in trouble for emailing his patient and threatening to send police to her home to force her to come to the hospital and have a c-section birth. It’s a bizarre and shocking story that involves VBAC controversy, the National Advocates for Pregnant Women, and an extremely accomplished doctor who possibly crossed an important line.

Lisa Epsteen is a stay-at-home, homeschooling mother of four. She’d had four previous c-sections, but really wanted to try a VBAC (Vaginal Birth After Cesarean) for her fifth birth. After some online research, Epsteen started working with Dr. Jerry Yankowitz, who had been recommended in a VBAC support room chat. Yankowitz is the chair of University of South Florida’s obstetrics and gynecology. He is one of the few doctors in the nation who is doubly certified in genetics and maternal fetal medicine and his areas of expertise include ultrasound diagnostics.

Late in her pregnancy, Dr. Yankowitz began to suggest that Lisa have another Cesarean, instead of the vaginal birth she wanted. Not only were the prior c-sections an issue, but the baby wasn’t in a good position for vaginal birth and Lisa had developed gestational diabetes during her pregnancy. These signs, coupled with Lisa’s medical history, meant that she wasn’t a good candidate for VBAC.

The controversy thickened when Epsteen went for an ultrasound on Tuesday. At this point, she was a week past her due date. During the ultrasound, doctors at the University of South Florida saw signs of fetal distress. They asked Epsteen to go to the hospital immediately for surgery. She declined, explaining that her husband was at work and she couldn’t leave her 2-year-old child with strangers. Instead, she scheduled a c-section for Friday.

When Dr. Yankowitz learned of the situation, he fired off an email demanding that Epsteen come in for surgery. His threatening communication said:

“I am deeply concerned that you are contributing to a very high probability that your fetus will die or your child will incur brain damage if born alive. At this time, you must come in for delivery. I would hate to move to the most extreme option, which is having law enforcement pick you up at your home and bring you in, but you are leaving the providers of USF/TGH no choice.”

Epsteen didn’t heed the doctor’s warning. She took to the internet to complain about the threats. She got the National Advocates for Pregnant Women involved and had lawyers reply to Dr. Yankowitz. She spoke to reporters, saying that she wanted to help other pregnant women who felt bullied by their physicians. ”Honestly, I feel abandoned. There has to be a level of trust between provider and patient, and that has been betrayed. It’s circumstances like this that make women feel like they have no options but to birth their babies on their own — and put themselves in more dangerous circumstances — because they feel bullied.”

Personally, I have to admit that while I hope the doctor was wrong in his prediction, I feel more sympathy for Dr. Yankowitz than Lisa Epsteen. While threatening police intervention is wrong, he seems genuinely concerned about Epsteen’s health and the health of her child. I cannot imagine being told that my child was experiencing fetal distress and deciding to go home and wait a couple days before addressing the problem.

I completely agree that pregnant women have the right to make their own decisions about their bodies and that within reason, a woman’s birthing choices should be respected. But Lisa Epsteen was not acting reasonably. She was putting herself and the child in her stomach in harm’s way. Dr. Yankowitz’s response was extreme, but I think he was probably trying to scare her into action, not really considering delivering her baby by force.

At this point, Lisa Epsteen still hasn’t given birth. She told reporters that she is afraid to return to the University of South Florida for the procedure. I hope that she finds a hospital soon and that she and her baby are okay. But no matter the outcome, I don’t think anyone can blame Dr. Yankowitz for his desperation to make sure that his patient and her child come through childbirth healthy.

(Photo: ARZTSAMUI/Shutterstock)

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  • http://www.facebook.com/houde.veronique Véronique Houde

    For her sake, I hope that this doesn’t turn out the way that her competent and highly qualified doctor has predicted. I don’t think she’ll be able to live with herself. Some people take the whole natural dream labour thing too far. It’s one thing to strive for it and to work your way towards it, but to insist so much as to put the life of your unborn child in danger? Ridiculous…

    • Makabit

      I wanted a vaginal birth. I really did. But my OB made it pretty clear that my daughter wouldn’t survive that, so we did a c-section and got her out of there.

      ‘Fetal distress’ means you do what your medical team advises, ASAP. I don’t know about this threatening to call the cops business, but I can sympathize with the doctor’s intent.

  • CMJ

    Yes, because when a highly qualified and clearly concerned doctor/hospital staff tells me to come into the hospital immediately, I always take to the internet for advocacy instead of, you know, going to the hospital.

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.white.3532507 Paul White

      But…if it’s a popular consensus it means its right, regardless of the qualification of the people reaching the consensus. Right?

      (yes that’s sarcasm!)

  • Kathryn Eaton

    I think it’s completely arrogant for a woman to thumb her nose at her highly experienced and highly educated doctor, especially at the expense of her child’s safety. At the very least, she should get a second opinion immediately, instead of lawyering up. I think the doctor was well within his rights to threaten police intervention – at this point what she is doing is child abuse. That baby in her belly is a little person that she needs to be making responsible decisions for. Instead she’s turning to the media to get her 15 minutes of fame. So sad, selfish, and stupid.

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.white.3532507 Paul White

      particularly when the doctor was initially supportive of the VBAC thing but changed his mind late term due to arising complications!

    • http://www.facebook.com/courtney.wooten Courtney Lynn

      Exactly. They don’t change their mind because the feel like it. He was KNOWN for being supportive!

    • HBACingmama

      I think it’s completely arrogant for total strangers on the internet to ASSume to know anything about this woman, and to accuse her of child abuse without actually having a clue what they are talking about…not only arrogant, but stupid: In Lisa’s own words:

      “Well,
      seeing as though this article is about me, let me just set the record
      straight here instead of everyone making assumptions about this
      so-called “distress”. Yesterday, I went in for a regularly scheduled
      appointment. I had a BPP (Bio-physical profile) done as I have just
      passed the 41 week mark. I had not eaten beforehand and the test was in
      the middle of the day-not a time when my baby is typically active. He
      scored a 4/8 on the test because HE WAS ASLEEP. His heart rate was a
      perfect 152. He was making frequent, normal breathing movements. My
      fluid levels were well within normal range. My placenta looked
      beautiful. The OB I saw that day sent me immediately across the street
      “to be monitored” at the hospital. Mind you, I was there by myself with
      my 2 year old son. I got there and was informed that they were not going
      to discharge me and that they wanted me to have an immediate c-section.
      By this time, I had felt the baby move many times. I asked them if we
      could simply re-do the test as he was active then and the OB on-call
      advised me TO TAKE MY SON AND GO HOME. They had wanted me to leave my
      son in the care of a complete stranger and have an immediate section
      without my husband or any support available. When I told the OB that I
      would not do that as I knew my baby was fine and moving well (and he
      readily admitted that he could have just been asleep), he advised me to
      go home, get childcare arranged and return for the c-section. Obviously,
      they would have pushed harder for me to stay had my baby been in
      immediate danger. I did not even have to sign a single paper, nor did
      they admit me. I later called and left a message that I would schedule
      the c-section for Friday. They did not return my phone call. Instead,
      their response was to threaten to send the police to my door and cart me
      off like a common criminal in front of my children and force me into
      surgery. I have since had plenty of movement from my “distressed” baby. I
      have my own Doppler and have been monitoring his heart tones at home.
      There is absolutely no indication that baby is in distress by any means.
      So before anyone makes any assumptions about me making risky decisions,
      please be sure you have all of the facts. The bottom line is, this is
      about choice. I am well-educated. I know my rights. I know my risks and
      what I am comfortable with and this was not an overreaction on my part,
      but on the part of my OB. I had already consented to the c-section. But
      I’ll tell you what-if I am going to have myself cut open to have my baby
      removed after fighting for 9 months to have a vaginal birth, you better
      believe that c-section will be on my terms. I would never willingly and
      knowingly put my child in harm’s way. You may not think I am a good
      candidate, but that does not negate the fact that I have a right to make
      decisions for my own care and that I am perfectly capable of making
      those decisions.”

    • Lucky mom

      A BPP of 4/8 is abnormal and in a post term diabetic usually requires rapid delivery. You put your baby at unnecessary risk. The news reported that you delivered an 11# baby, likely from diabetes, a condition known to increase the risk of stillbirth. Although I disagree with your doctor’s methods, I imagine he was desperate to get you back in order to protect your unborn baby from your magical thinking. Congratulations on your delivery. I sincerely think you dodged a bullet. Here is something to think about: if your baby had died, would you have taken to the Internet to apologize to your heartbroken doctors and family?

    • Luckymon

      I doubt iour OB would have sent that email if your baby was only sleeping. Where is the responsibility to the baby, who thankfully at least had his or her doctors as advocates.

  • Justme

    I don’t understand this mindset that believes everyone in the medical community (or any other community it seems) is out to get you. Are there bad doctors? Absolutely – just like there are bad teachers, taxi drivers, lawyers, garbage men, politicians, janitors, etc. Not everyone is trying to screw you over….just because they are telling you something you don’t want to hear doesn’t mean they are wrong or not looking out for your best interest.

    • belongtotoday

      No, but plenty of Doctors — especially in ‘first world’ areas like the US, Canada, the UK, Australia — have been proven time and time again to have profit on their minds and to be protecting themselves as much if not more than you. Much of their decisions are based on protecting themselves from lawsuits, not because it’s in the best interest of the mother and fetus/baby. There is absolutely zero reason for the cesarean rate to be as high as it is otherwise, past 80% in some areas of the US. And they’ve been proven to use untested methods and drugs on pregnant women. Look at Cytotec and Thalidomide. In 10 or 20 years they’ll probably find something wrong with Pitocin too (more than they have already).

      Treating your Doctor like God is asking for problems. EVERYONE should ALWAYS treat medical advice with a grain of salt and usually get a second opinion or — where possible — do research before life-altering, potentially deadly, risky and irreversible procedures.

    • Justme

      I trust my doctor. Not because I’m a blind sheep, but because of the relationship I have built with her over the past five years.

    • Justme

      And this woman in the article? Seems that she DID do her research and chose the best doctor to treat her situation, but unfortunately her body and baby seem to need a different course of action than what she wanted as a birth plan. To NOT heed this doctor’s advice is to act in a way that is life-altering, potentially deadly, risky and irreversible.

    • belongtotoday

      And that’s still her choice. Unless you want to allow Physicians to call the police on patients and the government (and associated legal bodies) to be able to mandate medical decisions. Kind of like how China forcibly sterilized thousands of women because they decided that these women couldn’t make sound decisions either…..sounds familiar….

    • Justme

      I do believe the doctor’s true intent of the email was NOT to have the woman arrested (was that crossing the line…perhaps) but instead to provide documentation for his own protection in the event that this woman sues him for medical negligence if something were to happen to either her or her child.

    • belongtotoday

      Then you’ve just pointed out what I *already* stated which you originally seemed to disagree with me on. That this was not about best practices and what’s best for mother and baby but about the Doctor protecting his own ass. Fine, Doctor doesn’t agree with her, drop her as a patient. You’re protected. Do NOT start bringing law enforcement, court orders for cesareans, etc into it.

    • Justme

      I don’t agree with you. I agree with the fact that a well-respected doctor made a medical diagnosis regarding a patient and her unborn child but upon hearing that the patient had refused orders, tried to not only get her to understand the severity of the situation, but also simultaneously tried to protect himself from any sort of litigation because that’s a smart thing to do.

    • belongtotoday

      Mine: “and to be protecting themselves as much if not more than you. Much of their decisions are based on protecting themselves from lawsuits, not because it’s in the best interest of the mother and fetus/baby. ”

      Yours: “but instead to provide documentation for his own protection in the event that this woman sues him for medical negligence if something were to happen to either her or her child.”

      But yet you’re saying you don’t agree with me on that his decision was at least *partially* based in covering his own ass from lawsuits. Hmmm

    • Mommy2L

      the key question is…was he documenting to protect himself SOLEY out of legal fears?…was he documenting because he truly cares, believes there is a danger, and wants to protect himself because his expert opinion is being ignored?…..
      Some providers make decisions based on fear of being sued, yes. But I see nothing wrong with a provider protecting themselves when an accurate and medically sound recommendation is ignored.

    • belongtotoday

      Please read HBACingmama’s reply to Kathryn Eaton above. The woman didn’t ignore the advice. But she had her own information and that was left out of the original article and is important and valid.

    • Mommy2L

      I did read it. I still stand behind her going against and ignoring her providers advice. Home dopplers can only tell so much. She claims she knew a c/s was the safest option now…yet insisted on waiting 3 more days. I get not rushing in right that very second, but how about heading home, arranging childcare and picking up hubby? If she had gone into labor, she would have made arrangements..not said “let’s wait til Friday to head to the hospital”… I am sure the her OB came to the same conclusion as I did…she was still holding out for a VBA4C. So..no..she wasn’t trying to do what was advised. She was trying to buy time in a clearly risky situation. So yes, she did ignore his advice, and I can understand why he would want to protect himself. (just hate how he did it). But of course…advocates say if the doc isn’t willing to go to 42 weeks, he isnt supportive. I call bull..I can agree it’s trying to routinely schedule a RCS for 39/40/41 weeks etc right at the beginning, then yes, I would question it. But when you have several risk factors…42 weeks is risky. I did read baby is here safely, so for that I am soooo glad. I actually care very much about both mother and infant safety, as well the integrity of VBACs…I just feel she risked that integrity.

    • Justme

      I CYA everyday at my job as a teacher….but does that detract from the devotion I have for my children? Absolutely not. I would assume the doctor is acting in a similar manner. It’s just an unfortunate necessity in this culture where people are willing to sue over anything.

  • Eileen

    I mean, did he go too far? Probably. It’s hard to define when the safety of the fetus takes precedence over the mother’s wishes. But come on. She’d had four C-sections. She had gestational diabetes. She was overdue. The baby wasn’t in a good position (not head first? umbilical cord issues?) Assuming she genuinely wants the baby, why wouldn’t she take the sensible advice of this well qualified doctor who is only trying to help her? Birth can be very dangerous for both mother and baby. She should already know that! As for her 2-year-old – seriously, even if you’re unwilling to let your children leave parental sight – which the homeschooling SAHM implies – your husband’s boss isn’t going to let him leave work because his 41-weeks-pregnant wife just found out she has to have an emergency C-section? I get that if it’s a scheduled C-section, you want to pick a convenient time. This, however, is an emergency. And given that everyone understands how pregnancy works, i.e. that after 40ish weeks a baby arrives at the time it chooses, your husband and his coworkers should realize that he might have to leave work to care for his wife and children while she gives birth.

    • Justme

      I agree – there is a time when you put aside what YOU want (apparently for her it was a VBAC) and do what is best for your body and the child that it is carrying.

    • Mom_of_2_2012

      I completely agree – this mother is putting her desire for a VBAC ahead of the well-being of her baby and that of her other children (how would they feel if, God forbid, anything happens to her as a result of her failure to act?) I had a C-section with my daughter out of medical necessity. I really wanted to try for a VBAC with my son, and my doctor and I agreed to that as a tentative plan, but when it became apparent toward the end of my pregnancy that the same issues would make a second C-section necessary, I followed the advice of my doctor. You know, the one of us who actually went to medical school. Lord, woman – you have had *4* previous C-sections – obviously, for whatever reason, your body is not designed for a safe unassisted birth (please spare me the commentary about all women’s bodies being designed for this for millennia – historically, mortality rates during childbirth tell a drastically different story).

    • Makabit

      Women’s bodies are designed for this. Unfortunately, the design has a fairly high fail rate, which doesn’t bother Mother Nature, but we try to avoid it when we can…

    • Annie

      Apparently it doesn’t bother a lot of homebirthers, either (certainly not all of them).

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.white.3532507 Paul White

      Or maybe people that have successful home births are the people that are better built for it?
      Seriously, without medical intervention my wife would have had massive problems; the kids head was going under her pelvic bone rather than coming out the vagina. Easy fix for a doctor that knew what he was doing (kind of reached in and rearranged) but without assistance….

    • CrazyFor Kate

      Agreed. A lot of people who are going to have problems are weeded out long before there’s a pregnancy, and more during the pregnancy itself. I have a heart defect and would have loved to have a homebirth, but my births are going to be with a high-risk OB in major medical centres – because that is what it will take to keep me and my future kids healthy. I honestly see women who whine about not getting “the perfect birth” as incredibly spoiled – how many women will die this year because they didn’t have access to a C-section, or clean medical care, or any number of things? It’s one thing to be disappointed, it’s another to put your child’s birth before the rest of xir life.

    • geckomommy

      In total agreement! I am all for natural childbirth and VBAC, but she had almost every reason TO have an emergency c-section. Personally, I would be terrified for myself and the baby if it came to that.

      I actually think it’s a great thing that the doctor emailed her, even if the threat was a little much – how many moms-to-be can say that their doctor is even able to find their chart when they call, or calls back when they say they will, much less sends them an e-mail when they are concerned?

    • GracieW

      Have you seen this woman? She is obese. She has gestational diabetes, the baby is in distress. She is overdue. The child isn’t in a good position for vaginal delivery. She has had FOUR previous c-sections. This woman is NUTS.

  • motherofhadley

    The child was in her uterus, not her stomach.

    • Allie

      Maybe she ate it.

  • Cee

    Wow. I seriously partially blame some mommy blogs for her stubborn behavior. I mean aside from this blog, and I’m saying it with a grain of salt cuz sometimes this blog can be judgey too, some mommy blogs (usually ones that use acronyms like DH, DD, DS, CIO…blah blah blah) can be very judgmental about a lot of the personal choices women make about anything regarding their baby. Mothers shame other mothers for c sections and much much more. Go to any mommy blog and type a search for C-section, look at the comment section and you will not see many mothers supporting mothers there. You will see a lot of “selfish” “how convinient” “you drugged your baby” ” you should have…” “a doula would have…”
    What many mommy blogs and forums do as well is push for vaginal births after C sections. And yes, it is a wonderful thing 1. if you want to do it 2. if you can safely do it. However a lot of mommy blogs don’t come with disclaimers about these things and pretty much tell each other “well I had this and my doctor told me to do that but my doctor was wrong, I was right. I did it my way and I now have a healthy baby.” Which brings me to another point. Some mommy blogs seem to have a problem about what doctors tell them to do. Many stories are about mothers going against doctors, doctors being wrong, them being right. Again, this should come with a disclaimer somewhere because many pregnant women seeking support are not only being judged and pressured but taking some things they read as gospel above their doctors orders.

    • CrazyFor Kate

      It seems like a lot of those bloggers do not understand the concept of risk. Sure, your kid turned out fine, but you just got lucky. Should you do it again in the same situation? Probably not. And gawd, I cannot stand this harping on the medical system. It’s not perfect, but do these women have any idea how freakin’ lucky they are?

    • belongtotoday

      It’s not luck. It’s research.

    • Mommy2L

      And what research supports a VBA4C, with a close to 42 week uterus, poor fetal positioning on a GD positive mother?

    • http://www.facebook.com/valerisexton.jones Valeri Jones

      I agree. I recently switched to this site from cafemom and talk about sanctimommies!!!! Every mom on that site was the most perfect mother who never listened to anyone but themselves and their kids are perfect, blah blah and BLAH. I just got so sick of reading the same judgey posts over and over again from the same people. I got to where I could pretty much guess, word for word, what certain moms were gonna say to certain posts.

    • BigBlue

      I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels that way about cafemom. Everyone there, from the bloggers to the commenters, are the most perfect mommies to ever walk the earth (in their own, not-so-humble opinions of course). And while Mommyish does have it’s moments (see: Carinn Jade’s post a few months ago about how she should get a medal for her natural births), I’ve mostly found that the atmosphere here is refreshingly open, honest, nonjudgemental and sanctimommy free.

    • http://www.facebook.com/courtney.wooten Courtney Lynn

      I’m done with cafemom after the racism I saw displayed once about a Native boy who refused to cut his hair. One in particular kept going on about how he was just using his “culture” as an excuse (and she put culture in quotes). My son and husband are Native and in their culture the men traditionally do not cut their hair. My son will have long hair like my husband does until he decides to get it cut, IF he chooses.

  • Kelly

    I hope she gets charged with murder if her baby dies because of her little stunt. She’s as bad as those parents who refuse to take their sick children to the hospital and just let them die in their beds.

    • http://www.facebook.com/courtney.wooten Courtney Lynn

      I hope her baby is born healthy and alive.

    • Kelly

      Well, that’s why I said IF her baby dies she should be charged with murder. I certainly didn’t say that I hope her baby dies.

    • http://www.facebook.com/courtney.wooten Courtney Lynn

      I know what you meant and I’m sure you realize that a baby dying is not something I care to think about when it hasn’t happened yet. Even if the mother is an idiot.

    • Kelly

      I do care to think about it when it can be prevented. I would like to help prevent the death of babies.

    • http://www.facebook.com/courtney.wooten Courtney Lynn

      I would, too. I would just like to believe the best possible outcome as I really prefer not to think about dead babies at this time. It’s sort of a trigger for me at this point.

  • Rachelle

    Pardon me, but I think this is the first time I see all the commenters agree with the author. *jawfloor*

    (I also concur the Dr. did the right thing – but email instead of phone call? Don’t understand that, but at least there’s written proof.)

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.white.3532507 Paul White

      I’d imagine the written proof is why he did via email.

    • WMV

      She probably wasn’t answering the phone to him and he needed to get the message to her somehow?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1437863268 Christine Saunders

    IDIOT. the mother that is

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1437863268 Christine Saunders

    Then when something really does go wrong she’ll want to sue.

    • Blueathena623

      I agree. While I 100% hope nothing goes wrong, ten bucks says that if the dr turns out right, she’ll sue.

    • http://www.facebook.com/valerisexton.jones Valeri Jones

      Agreed.

    • Justme

      And I think that’s why the doctor put his concerns in writing just in case her situation does go south.

  • msenesac

    “I don’t think anyone can blame Dr. Yankowitz for his desperation to make sure that his patient and her child come through childbirth healthy.” THIS exactly. Yes, what he did was extreme but I can picture him frantically trying to convey to this woman that she is endangering the life of her child.

    • http://www.facebook.com/valerisexton.jones Valeri Jones

      I completely agree. I don’t think he was crossing the line by sending her a threatening email. I think he was doing what any GOOD doctor would do, which means taking personal steps to save a life. I love our family’s general practitioner, but he has never called or emailed us personally. That’s always something the assistants do. Kudos to this doctor for a.) being so involved with his patients and b.) doing what he thought was necessary for that baby.

      I sure hope his predictions are wrong, though. Even having a completely selfish and short-sighted mother, no baby should have that forced upon them when they are unable to make decisions for themselves.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/3IY44OA2MWHBV766SV4OGKJQ2A Miki

    Are you kidding me? It is her body until she has given birth! And even when she disagrees with medical advice.

    • Justme

      And that body is carrying a child who depends on her to make sound medical decisions so that he/she may be brought into this world safely.

    • Eileen

      That’s why it’s complicated. Yes, it’s her body, but at which point do the needs of the fetus get to be considered legally? At 41 weeks, it’s well past the point of viability.

      But that’s beside the point. Lindsay isn’t suggesting that the police actually be called and force c-section this woman. She’s saying that if the woman wants to have a healthy baby, she should listen to the overwhelming evidence that a c-section is the way to do it in this specific case.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/3IY44OA2MWHBV766SV4OGKJQ2A Miki

      When it comes to anything her body undergoes? I consider her right to choose those risks first and foremost. I totally think she should have hustled over and had the c section- when my water broke at 32 wks I got to the hospital pronto and stayed there for 4 wks until I had a healthy baby. BUT- that was my choice. If I had wanted to go home, lose all the amniotic fluid and the pregnancy- at 32 weeks, I reserve that no one has the right to forcibly hospitalize me against my express will and consent.

    • Eileen

      The general rule with abortions is that they’re not okay after a certain point, usually the viability of the fetus. This isn’t a 12- or even 24-week old fetus – at the time in my life when I would have been 41 weeks gestation, I was a perfectly healthy 7-weeks-post-birth baby. Now, if she were, say, a hemophiliac who couldn’t undergo surgery because of the potential risk to her life, then she should absolutely have the right to refuse a c-section. But this is a simple surgery that she’s had four times before and obviously recovered from, and it could mean the difference between life and death for her past term baby. I don’t know if I believe she should absolutely be forced to do it. I can see an argument either way. But the main point of the article was that she wants her baby to arrive alive and well and is being an idiot about ensuring that.

    • Kelly

      I disagree. I think in that situation you should be hospitalized and observed because you aren’t thinking clearly. Should they be able to tie you down and cut you open? No, but you should definitely be hospitalized.

    • Amanda

      I agree. I’m not saying I would do what she did (ever) but if we start saying that dr’s have a right to forcibly drag women into hospitals for invasive medical procedures to “protect her developing fetus” its a slippery slope I do NOT wish to travel.

    • CrazyFor Kate

      I think she has a right, totally, but she’s still an idiot for not listening.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/3IY44OA2MWHBV766SV4OGKJQ2A Miki

      And I agree.

    • http://www.facebook.com/courtney.wooten Courtney Lynn

      She has the right, but it doesn’t make it a good decision. If she really wants her baby born alive and healthy, the right thing to do is to follow medical advice. I LOVE natural birth and home birth. I’m a supporter of VBACs BUT only if the risk is low! If there are many risk factors that are pointing to another c-section, that’s what should be done.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/3IY44OA2MWHBV766SV4OGKJQ2A Miki

      I agree with you 100%. I may think her choice to be the utmost in careless, etc.- but I defend her right to choose the processes she puts her body through.

    • http://www.facebook.com/courtney.wooten Courtney Lynn

      I would agree if another life was not in jeopardy. A life that I’m sure she wants to save, but is not making wise decisions to do so. I do believe her doctor went to far, but I understand WHY. If I were him, I would just continue to stop seeing her. That he CAN do.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/3IY44OA2MWHBV766SV4OGKJQ2A Miki

      I don’t have a problem with that.

    • Kelly

      I don’t agree. There’s a reason elective abortions aren’t permitted right up until the day a woman gives birth. She can’t just terminate her pregnancy or let her baby die at 9 months pregnant. She does not have that right.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/3IY44OA2MWHBV766SV4OGKJQ2A Miki

      However, no one should be able to force her to undergo ANY sort of medical process, intervention, surgery against her consent and will. Her rights to assess and choose her risks must be foremost and not superseded by those of the fetus.

    • Kelly

      So when the child dies at birth because the mother ignored it’s desperate need for medical attention, what do you consider it? Is it just a fetus that nobody should care about or is it a child murdered by it’s mother’s neglect?

    • lea

      And for the other side of the coin, what about if the woman dies as a result of the c-section?

    • Kelly

      What if she dies at home? She wanted this baby. The baby now needs medical attention. If she doesn’t want the c-section, fine. She still needs to take her butt to the hospital so her supposedly wanted baby can get the medical attention he or she needs.
      I’m not saying she should be forced into surgery. I’m saying she should be forced to GO TO THE HOSPITAL because her child needs a doctor and a medical facility. If she needs the c-section and refuses and she kills her own baby, well, whether they prosecute her or not, she’ll know she’s a murderer. She’ll have to live with that.
      If she refuses to go the hospital and just stays home she’s neglecting her child. It’s the same exact thing as keeping a dying child in a bed instead of taking them to a hospital.

    • belongtotoday

      Alright, then let’s take away *all* autonomy from every single pregnant woman. Afterall, pregnancy clearly makes women infantile and unable to make good decisions, right? Once your Doctor confirms pregnancy you’ll be transferred into hospital and stay there under a Doctor’s supervision 24 hours a day until you give birth just to ensure that you absolutely and completely follow every single Doctor’s order to a T. Perfect! Women don’t need to control their bodies, afterall! Doctors know best and the hospital *is* the safest place so any mother who *really* cares about her fetus would do this gladly and with a smile! /sarcasm but you get my point?

      Women’s bodies are theirs until a baby is born and yes, if a baby dies in the process of that it’s tragic and unfortunate but that still does NOT mean that women turn their right to their body over to ANYONE even a Doctor to just do whatever the hell the Doctor feels like doing. This is how we end up with post-cesarean women being put on display for training Gynecological students to come in and do practice pelvic exams on unknowing, sedated, unconsenting women as recently happened at various ‘teaching’ hospitals, because women’s bodies are just viewed as ‘things’ and once in the hospital, a ‘thing’ that belongs to the Doctor to use how they wish.

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/3IY44OA2MWHBV766SV4OGKJQ2A Miki

      Her business, not yours. You have to violate her bodily autonomy and her privacy to take any action.

    • Gangle

      Ummm… Forgive me if I’m wrong, but late-term abortions are still illegal, so according to the law, it is no longer ‘just’ her body. I doubt the doc was ever going to call the cops.. after all, they never actually turned up on her doorstep. I think he was YET AGAIN trying to explain to her the seriousness of her condition. I would say that when he discovered that her pregnancy was becoming very complicated, and informed her that perhaps there was no escaping another c section she became a difficult and argumentitive patient. Possibly a lot of her actions and attitudes leading up to this incident set off alarm bells. After all, this doctor was in full support of her wishes and birth plan, until he realised that her health just wasn’t going to allow it. The point is, where does due dilligence end? This woman could die. So could her child. We aren’t talking about a small matter here. If that happened, and he hadn’t stressed the importance of his course of action his butt could be on the line. especially if the death/s could have been completely avoided by a routine procedure.

  • Amanda

    While I totally can’t imagine going home and doing nothing — I also can not fathom a physician threatening to call the cops to have me picked up (on what charges?) and brought in for surgery I was refusing. (For any reason.) I don’t agree with mom here in anyway but I absolutely think the physician crossed a HUGE GLARING LINE.

    • http://www.facebook.com/valerisexton.jones Valeri Jones

      I don’t think there were any charges they could have brought upon her. I think he was just trying to scare her into doing something. This is obviously a serious situation. The more time that passes, the worse it’s going to get.

    • belongtotoday

      “I think he was just trying to scare her into doing something.”

      And nobody sees a HUGEEEEEEE problem with that? Doctors scaring any patient into something EVER? Using terror as a tactic? That’s terrifying to me. So much for the Hippocratic Oath, professionalism, compassion and honesty!

    • Kelly

      He’s reporting neglect. Her unborn child requires medical attention. Reporting her is part of his job.

    • azh

      Well Bei Bei Shuai was arrested for trying to commit suicide while pregnant, so maybe this sort of thing could be considered child endangerment?

    • belongtotoday

      Great. Let’s also arrest pregnant women than still smoke. That’s dangerous to a fetus. And pregnant women that drink, since studies still haven’t assessed the risk and pregnant women are apparently too stupid to know a safe limit so any woman who is pregnant and drinks is clearly going to cause FAS in her baby. Prisons and jails aren’t already overcrowded or anything. Throw em all in jail! Anything that endangers a fetus needs to go! Driving too. That’s super dangerous. Hundreds of thousands of people are killed in accidents so any pregnant woman who drives can get arrested too. SAVE ALL FETUSES!!!!!!!!!

    • Justme

      I think that he was protecting himself by putting his concerns in writing so that if it something does go wrong, then he has proof that he was trying to do what was medically best for both mother and child….in the event that she or her family sues for medical negligence.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ChristinaMBoyles Christina Parlatore

    This lady is effen nuts! She put her baby in danger!

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  • rabbitwithfangs

    This is a minor complaint, but I really wish a site like Mommyish wouldn’t refer to a baby as being in a woman’s ‘stomach’. We’re not toddlers.

  • once upon a time

    Another self absorbed pregnant lady with a PhD in Googlology who thinks she knows better than the doctor who has dedicated his career to this field of study? Must be a Friday!

    • Kathryn Eaton

      Ph.D. in Googlology! LOL!

  • belongtotoday

    The problem is that for every problem, there’s a myriad of options that often contradict each other. For instance I was originally told (and read) that every single person with Group B Strep *had* to absolutely go in to hospital and receive IV antibiotics which I did. Later on I read that that’s not *absolutely* true and necessary. It’s an *option* but not an *absolute*. It’s much the same for breech births which can and have been delivered for thousands of years vaginally just fine. And with Gestational Diabetes. A woman with Gestational Diabetes doesn’t become paralyzed from the waist down. The fear is often a larger-than-average baby but women have delivered 10 and 11 lb babies vaginally just fine. And unfortunately even ‘fetal distress’ these days is often used as basically a ruse for OBs to perform cesareans. Most babies go through short periods of ‘distress’ (as picked up by fetal monitor) during contractions because the uterus compresses on them in a natural process and that can speed up their heart or slow it down as it compresses the cord. But as soon as even one is picked up the woman is rushed to the OR. There’s a lot of controversy over the use of fetal monitors for that reason (I realize one wasn’t used here, just saying).

    She had many prior cesareans and probably knew the recovery which is often long and miserable and desperately didn’t want another and was perhaps even terrified of having another.

    So I won’t judge her for not rushing over right away. I think there’s a serious problem with Doctors being able to take control over the health of patients that are still sentient simply because they disagree with the patient’s treatment ideas or plans. It’s her body and her baby and ultimately even if it did/does die that’s her choice to make. It doesn’t actually give the Doctor of hospital the right to force medical intervention. Patients have the right to refuse treatment at any point and I don’t think that changes just because someone is pregnant.

    • azh

      Doctors make you take antibiotics for GBS because neonatal mortality from those infections is as high as 47% in some studies, and what happens if a patient doesn’t get the antibiotics and their baby dies? They sue the hospital and win.

    • lea

      Just on the GBS. According to the Cochrane review, giving antibiotics in the case of GBS is not supported by conclusive evidence. There aren’t any well designed and well controlled trials to make a recommendation either way.

      Women should be given the information and the choice.

      Giving the antibiotics is not risk free.

  • Mommy2L

    I personally believe that all women should be given informed consent about the risks to any procedure or choice when it comes to birthing their child. And I believe that if a woman disagrees with her provider, the provider should have the choice to ask the mother to sign an AMA waiver, if her belief and desires go against evidence based practicing. A VBA4C in and of itself, while risky, it’s NOT impossible. A woman with GD doesn’t have to be high risk. Poor fetal positioning isn’t a big deal, babies turn in labor. Being past 40 weeks isn’t really “overdue”. An non-reassuring NST isn’t always a reason to jump to a c/s (Lisa claims on another site her baby scored 4/8 but his fluids were good, was practice breathing, and heart rate was good…that he was just “asleep” during the test…but we only have HER side) But….stack all that up and it really IS a ticking time bomb. GD sometimes poses risk of a larger baby or risk of shoulder distocia. Push out a baby like that, with a 42 week stretched uterus, that has been compromised by 4 c/s and the pressure can very likely cause a rupture.

    I DO believe some providers bully and push mothers into unnecessary procedures; they lie and trick mothers; and act like the mother is not putting her baby first. BUT, this doctor is well known for his support in VBACs. He took her on, when no one would, wanting to help her achieve the VBA4C. Things just didn’t pan out the way LE wanted. And I can’t help but wonder if she has drunk too much “my body was designed for this” koolade… I mean, sure..but when it’s been compromised by 4 c/s…there is more risk involved. I also do NOT believe that ALL mothers have their child’s best interest at heart. I think she feels she has to prove something to the VBAC and Natural Childbirth community. She has been quite vocal online about this, just search her name. I wonder if some depression from how her previous births went aren’t coming into play. She IS holding out for a VBA4C. Part of me wonders if she will show for her appt on Friday. If she was planning a vaginal birth all along, she would have had back up plans for her children. So why insist on 3 more days??

    Frankly, I hate that the OB reacted the way he did, threatening the police..because that is (I suppose rightfully) getting the real attention here. Not that she is selfishly putting her baby’s life at risk. I really really hope that her child will be born with no major trauma to either of them.

    • http://www.facebook.com/courtney.wooten Courtney Lynn

      You just summed up everything I think about this situation.

    • Justme

      I think this is the best response on this entire thread. You succinctly described both sides of the story and each person’s perspective beautifully.

    • Mommy2L

      I just realized too why this story upsets me so much..because I do see both sides quite well. My sister underwent some OBullying with her first that ended in a c/s, second birth was a failed TOL turned RCS, and the third birth was a scheduled c/s. She chose to trust her doctor when she scheduled the c/s and received so much push from natural birth and VBAC communities that she was wrong for not trusting her body, but rather trusting “that man OB”…well that “man OB” was correct. Her uterus was so thinned and had adhered to a lesion from her previous scar..and it tore during the c/s. Her midwife was in the room with her and said she very well may have ruptured. She hired him because he was well respected and WAS a VBAC supporter.

      Looking at the evidence, there is very little about the safety of a VBA4C, coupled with GD (and if the a FB page was correct her baby was 11lbs,..); coupled with poor position; coupled with being 42 weeks…..well, I feel that a RCS and one that doesn’t push the bounds to 42 weeks, was very called for. Yet the NCB communities and VBAC keep crying out that it is fine, and filling peoples heads that it is fine. THAT is what pisses me off. We *should* encourage each other not fear birth, to hire someone we trust, someone that practices evidence based care. But when that particular case shows many risk factors, STOP USING VBA1C STATS TO CLAIM ITS SAFE!!! I may not agree with LE, and can’t fathom why she chose to wait. But I am more angry at VBAC and NCB groups claiming what she chose was OK and safe. And encouraging risky behavior.

    • Justme

      I’m sure that many Natural Birth advocates out there would probably claim that my OB bullied me into being induced a week earlier than my supposed due date.

      But there is so much more to a pregnancy than just the child and the carrier. I was having EXTREME anxiety towards the end of my pregnancy (which eventually turned into mind-numbing PPD) and I absolutely couldn’t handle not knowing when I would give birth. I wasn’t sleeping or eating and I was having chest pains due to the stress. I teach middle school and was required to be at a track meet (on my feet for at least five hours) a week before my due date and then an Open House the very next night (again, on my feet). I was having nightmares about my water breaking at the most inopportune time in front of all my kids.

      It was just all around bad.

      So my doctor suggested an induction since I was such a stress ball. I looked at my husband and he nodded in agreement. I left the office with a sense of peace and tranquility that I hadn’t felt in a LONG time. It was so wonderful to have a date and to make a plan that my husband and I were able to enjoy the last weekend to ourselves before giving birth to our daughter.

      I did end up having a c-section which may or may not have been caused by the induction and I’m sure there are tons of natural birth advocates that could pull some studies out of their ass and “prove” that I caused the c-section by choosing to be “selfish” and induce labor….but that’s not how life works. I don’t live in “what ifs.”

      My husband and I made the best decision for us and that included a c-section in an attempt to afford me some sanity and if other women choose to disrespect that choice….meh. That’s on them.

  • ss

    you and ur husband are idiots! ur husband is at work ok tell his ass to leave and get home to watch the kids while u go give birth to the child!! neither of u have parents aunts uncles siblings that could have watched these kids?? thats hard to believe when ur child dies or is born with issues its ur own fault for not following thru! i had 2 natural births and my 3rd was almost a c section i didnt want 1 but my baby wasnt in the position head down but at the last minute he turned so i was able to give birth naturally but no way id turn down a c section becuz it wasnt in my “plans”

  • GracieW

    This woman is a complete and utter moron and I hope she is charged if that baby dies (if she doesn’t die too). She really is nuts and needs her head examined.

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  • http://twitter.com/paticamelo Patrícia Camelo

    What the hell?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1792297354 Rochelle Alberti

    I think she did the right thing. She DID NOT ignore the warnings…..but she literally was UNABLE to go to surgery right then. What was she supposed to do with her 2 year old? The nurses were going to baby sit him? Who wants to go through the birth of a child without their husband there?

    And having had a few kids myself….doctors are often very full of themselves. They would have pushed me into a c-section with my fifth…if a nurse who was doing the BPP (same test Lisa Epsteen had) hadn’t asked me some questions about the NORMAL wake and sleep patterns I HAD noticed in my infant..and had then done some things to help wake up baby as it was a “nap time”.

    This article also fails to mention that the mother was also monitoring the baby’s heart rate and movements herself several times a day…..as I was always told to do.

    And Gestational Diabetes…is NOT a reason for c-section. Seriously.

    Was the doctor “out to get her”? No…but he also did not really have her best interest at heart…because if he was so concerned for her and baby..he would know that raising her cortisol levels (stress hormone) would put both her and baby at a GREATER risk for complications…as OB’s literature as been pointing out for the past 10 years.

  • http://www.facebook.com/melissa.vandenbout Melissa Vanden Bout

    I most certainly can blame Dr. Yankowitz for his actions. Just because he felt desperate doesn’t make it appropriate for him to threaten and manipulate a patient. He’s a professional, and a professional that Ms. Epstein hired for a particular service, and he should have acted like it. No doctor should think they have the authority to reach into a patient’s home and use police authority to coerce that patient. Certainly he should not have threatened to do so, whether or not would have attempted to carry through on his threat.

    In addition, I am troubled by how ready the doctor involved, as well as many of the commenters here, are quick to assume that someone other than the mother has her baby’s best interest at heart and should therefore be the one to decide her fate. Shame on you.

    As far as the bogus “she just wanted her 15 minutes of fame” claim goes, well, double shame on you. Do you have any idea how vulnerable that woman was made to feel? How few resources she had? The doctor she trusted had just told her he was going to physically and legally compel her to do something she was sure was not immediately necessary at a cost she was not willing to pay for her family’s sake. Who was she going to go to, I ask you, to check that kind of threat against her safety and autonomy?

  • HBACingmama

    Maybe, just MAYBE you should have the whole story before spouting off about how wrong this mother is for refusing to have immediate surgery. In her own words:

    “Well,
    seeing as though this article is about me, let me just set the record
    straight here instead of everyone making assumptions about this
    so-called “distress”. Yesterday, I went in for a regularly scheduled
    appointment. I had a BPP (Bio-physical profile) done as I have just
    passed the 41 week mark. I had not eaten beforehand and the test was in
    the middle of the day-not a time when my baby is typically active. He
    scored a 4/8 on the test because HE WAS ASLEEP. His heart rate was a
    perfect 152. He was making frequent, normal breathing movements. My
    fluid levels were well within normal range. My placenta looked
    beautiful. The OB I saw that day sent me immediately across the street
    “to be monitored” at the hospital. Mind you, I was there by myself with
    my 2 year old son. I got there and was informed that they were not going
    to discharge me and that they wanted me to have an immediate c-section.
    By this time, I had felt the baby move many times. I asked them if we
    could simply re-do the test as he was active then and the OB on-call
    advised me TO TAKE MY SON AND GO HOME. They had wanted me to leave my
    son in the care of a complete stranger and have an immediate section
    without my husband or any support available. When I told the OB that I
    would not do that as I knew my baby was fine and moving well (and he
    readily admitted that he could have just been asleep), he advised me to
    go home, get childcare arranged and return for the c-section. Obviously,
    they would have pushed harder for me to stay had my baby been in
    immediate danger. I did not even have to sign a single paper, nor did
    they admit me. I later called and left a message that I would schedule
    the c-section for Friday. They did not return my phone call. Instead,
    their response was to threaten to send the police to my door and cart me
    off like a common criminal in front of my children and force me into
    surgery. I have since had plenty of movement from my “distressed” baby. I
    have my own Doppler and have been monitoring his heart tones at home.
    There is absolutely no indication that baby is in distress by any means.
    So before anyone makes any assumptions about me making risky decisions,
    please be sure you have all of the facts. The bottom line is, this is
    about choice. I am well-educated. I know my rights. I know my risks and
    what I am comfortable with and this was not an overreaction on my part,
    but on the part of my OB. I had already consented to the c-section. But
    I’ll tell you what-if I am going to have myself cut open to have my baby
    removed after fighting for 9 months to have a vaginal birth, you better
    believe that c-section will be on my terms. I would never willingly and
    knowingly put my child in harm’s way. You may not think I am a good
    candidate, but that does not negate the fact that I have a right to make
    decisions for my own care and that I am perfectly capable of making
    those decisions.”

  • Anonnymouse

    sounds like this situation could have been completely avoided with better communication between the doctor and patient – if the doctor had taken the time to explain his medical opinion, addressed the patients concerns about wanting a vaginal birth, and done this in a kind, understanding (not arrogant or bullying) manner it is hard to imagine a reasonable person reacting the way Epsteen has.

    • HBACingmama

      Actually, Lisa reacted exactly as a reasonable person would. If you set the comments to show as “Newest” you can read my first comment where Lisa gives *all* the details regarding this incident…details the author of this article was lacking before making her judgements.

  • LC_Homebirther

    I am just wondering how many of you posting comments about home-birthers, and this woman’s decision about her own birth, body and baby, are for abortion and pro-choice? If this is the case with you, you are a hypocrite and have no business having any opinion against this woman’s choice. Why is it so important to you to have a doctor suck the life from of a baby, but then argue whether a mom chooses to take a chance on birthing her own child naturally. I can’t for the life of me see how it would make any difference to you which why this baby died. It’s either pro-choice, or it `isn’t pro-choice. Stick to your guns or shut up. Don’t even feign concern for the the baby’s sufferings. Anyone who is pro-choice, with any since at all, knows babies develop feelings early on and suffer thru abortions. That has been plainly established even though folks like to deny it.
    Never-the-less, since I am for the life and rights of baby, `also had my children at home, have been with home birth ladies whose babies lived, and been with grieving home birth parents who babies died, same as would be at a hospital; I must say_ even though this Doctor went a little far in his response, and tho I am highly against forcing an operable choice on anyone, still there is no telling what reports he is reading to determine his ‘concern’. Mom, Baby moving does not determine he/she is not in distress. You don’t want to wait till they are `not moving to make a decision, then it is too late. Your high history of C-sections are a determining factor as well. This causes much more work for the baby since your contracting muscles have been sliced on, and especially on more than one occasion. So your chances of success at a certain point, will be considerably less than the normal chances of a woman with healthy muscles. So they determine whether to avoid going past a certain time for this reason, as well. Also it `always takes a professional to read reports. It has nothing to do with your intelligence. Reports and scans can be very tricky and vague, unless you know what you are reading. And you must have all reports included too get an accurate assessment.
    Although I love home birth, my daughter is a high risk patient, even though she doesn’t feel all that badly. Vitals and readings show it, and baby gets in distress in later part of birth each time. I never encourage her to home-birth as it would endanger her life, not to mention our sweet babies, because the equipment she and baby need, are not available with home birth. Jsuk. Wish you and baby well.

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