• Wed, Jan 2 2013

It’s Official, Rape Is No Longer A Girl Problem, It’s A Boy Problem. So Shut Up About Girls ‘Preventing’ Rape

Demonstrators react as police unleash water cannons during a protest calling for  better safety for women in front of the Government Secretariat and Presidential Palace in New DelhiIt’s over. Everyone, it is OVER. We are done having the conversation about how we can prevent our daughters from getting raped. The new conversation we will now be having is how we can stop our boys from raping. I do realize that on rare occasions there are women rapists, but statistically, the facts are that more men commit rapes then women commit rapes. So we won’t be having the discussion about how to keep our daughters from becoming rapists. I will be happy to have this discussion when groups of six women and girls brutally rape a man with a steel pipe. All we (and I mean “we” collectively) ever discuss is how we can keep our girls, ourselves, women, safe from rapists. I know I have discussed before how we need to teach our sons not to rape, but this “new” conversation is one we need to be having constantly. And I will say this until my mouth is sore and my fingers fall off: We need to teach our boys how not to rape.

I don’t want to hear any more vaguely worded rape-shaming about how a girl could have minimized her chances of being raped. I do not care, and please, this is important, so please read carefully: I do not care how drunk a woman or girl was. She does not deserve to be raped. I do not care what a woman or girl was wearing. I do not care if Juicy Couture or Victoria’s Secret comes out with a new line of sweatpants with the words “Rape Me” emblazoned on the ass and a female person buys and wears these, she does not deserve to be raped. I do not care if a girl or woman has consensual sex with a man, changes her mind mid-coitus and says no, she does not deserve to be raped. I do not care how many dark alleys she walks down, how many bad parts of town she frequents, how sexually active she is, how much makeup she wears, the length of her hemline, she does not deserve to be raped. There is never an excuse, or reason, or justification for rape. Ever.

Responsible parents can speak to their daughters about how to minimize their chances of being raped. But the greater conversation we need to have is how to stop men and boys from raping. We have had years, and years, and years of rape prevention seminars for women, of safety tips and classes, of helpful hints so you don’t end up beaten and left in an alley somewhere after being sexually assaulted. We need the same sort of seminars, and pamphlets, and websites dedicated to teaching boys how not to rape. We need male politicians, and celebrities and athletes to do PSAs about how not to rape. We need fathers to talk to their sons about not raping. Women? We do this. We talk about rape, we are vocal about rape, we write about rape and protest rape and donate money to anti-rape organizations and write letters to get stricter rape laws passed. But we need more men to be as vocal as we are.

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  • Jess

    Well saying “shut up” certainly gets your bitchy point across.

    • http://www.xojane.com/author/eve Eve Vawter

      You have no idea how utterly bitchy I am about the never-ending victim blaming that happens every single time a woman is raped. I am beyond bitchy. I am mega super mega bitchy.

    • Bitchy McBitchbitch

      oh hai dere! Just heard the bitchy corner calling my name ;)

    • McGauth925

      You know, if it did happen that the whole conversation went to careful instruction of boys and men, with NO words of warning to girls and women – hard to imagine at this point – there WILL be women raped who could’ve avoided that with a few precautions. Telling us not to say that isn’t a solution.

    • KakkaKarrotKake

      Darn you virginia! What are you, insaiyan?!

    • Ricardo Aguilera

      So it’s better to pathologize all male behaviour as inherently rapey?

      You do understand that by saying we need to teach our boys not to rape that you are in essence saying that rape is the default natural impulse for men. If this isn’t sexist and bigoted then I don’t know what is…believe it or not eve men are not rapist by nature.

    • CMJ

      Uh, all women should be SUPER bitchy about the victim blaming of rape victims. Add me to that bitchy list.

    • http://www.xojane.com/author/eve Eve Vawter

      Yay! Let’s all be “bitchy” about rape! More bitchiness!

    • Jess

      I’m not accusing you of being bitchy about rape, just bitchy in general. Your condescending attitude negates anything else you have to say to the people that actually need to read your message.
      But hey, whatever.

    • ali

      Where in this article is she being condescending? And if she is, then she would have every right to be! Because this behavior is disgusting and I am so sick of it! I’m just as mad and annoyed at the society we live in, the entire world thinking that rape is a fault of the woman because she did A,B,and C. We MUST educate our boys about rape, about how even if you’re with your girlfriend of three years, NO MEANS NO. No matter the situation, boys must learn what is right and wrong and how to control themselves. We are all sexual beings, but there are boundaries and lines that cannot be crossed. Maybe the author is “bitchy” as you say because she is mad that no matter how educated and advanced we are, this barbaric act STILL happens ALL THE FREAKIN TIME. A.L.L. T.H.E. T.I.M.E. ENOUGH! Also, your use of the word bitchy is really not needed. You could have stated you believed she was being condescending right away instead of straight up insulting her with probably one of the worst terms so easily thrown around to discuss women.

    • http://www.xojane.com/author/eve Eve Vawter

      Thank you

    • Jess

      What about the girls present at the parties–why didn’t they say anything? Look, I’m certainly not saying rape is the fault of women, but it’s not the fault of all men, either. It’s the fault of the asshats that raped that poor girl and the boys AND girls that witnessed it and did nothing. We need to educate ALL our children about rape, not one sex over the other.

      And so sorry I offended everyone with the word “bitchy.” But I certainly don’t like being told to “Shut up.”

    • ali

      Yes, everyone should be educated. However, the whole point is that with girls and women, rape is an always happening conversation. With boys, not so much. I did say that I didn’t think you had to use the word ‘bitchy’ but no where in my reply did I say the words “shut up”. Everyone has a right to an opinion and this is an open forum.

    • jessica

      How could you possibly be offended by the “shut up” in the title? Do you think that every article posted on the interwebs is directly aimed at you personally? I don’t get where you are coming from at all. I mean saying “shut up” is impossibly rude and unacceptable but victim-blaming is fine? What’s your deal?

    • Bluebelle

      You should probably just quit the internet, then.

    • Justme

      Rape ain’t sunshine and roses sweetheart. Obviously the attitude that society has taken in the past hasn’t worked, perhaps a little anger infused bitchiness will get the point across.

    • http://www.xojane.com/author/eve Eve Vawter

      and we need T shirts that say rape aint sunshine and roses <3

    • Kate m.

      We need shirts that say “I’m bitchy about rape”.

    • Altair

      Well it hasn’t worked either for murder, theft, and child abuse (the majority of child abuse is commited by women, mind you). Just stop trying to single up rape and deal with the issues as human issues.

    • Justme

      I’m not trying to “single up” anything. But I do believe when someone is robbed, murdered or a child is abused….no one generally calls the victim a lying whore (or something similar).

    • meg

      It’s an article about rape. What basis does the context of the article give you to say she’s “bitchy in general”?

      Or are you saying she needs to stop being so condescending and negative to people who are pro-rape?

      We need to stop tiptoeing around this topic. If that takes coming off as “bitchy,” so be it. Well-behaved women rarely make history.

    • McGauth925

      Who here is pro rape?! Complete and utter BS.

    • http://www.facebook.com/paul.white.3532507 Paul White

      Wow.
      If there’s a time that being bitchy is justified, I’d say sexual assault is it.

    • Nova

      You bet your sweet ass she’s bitchy. I’m bitchy, too. I’m sick and tired of women being held accountable for a crime that’s victimized them. That is bullshit and it’s long past time for it to change. It’s high time for men to be held accountable for the things they’ve done instead of holding women accountable for the things men have done TO them.

    • McGauth925

      That’s crap. 1 in 60 men are rapists, and you’re telling it’s the fault of all of us. Are YOU responsible for the 2/3 of non-sexual child abuse committed by women?

    • LoveyDovey

      I hope it does! It’s about damn time we got mad enough to shock people. I’m sick of feeling like I have to tiptoe around other people about what happened to me when they and certainly my rapist sure as hell don’t/didn’t care about MY feelings.

      God forbid either of my daughters is ever raped. But if they are, I’d like for them not to be subject to such questions as “Was it a REAL rape?” or statements like “You were partially at fault for not fighting back hard enough/not saying no enough/wearing that outfit/whatever other bullshit reason I can pin on you to make myself feel better”, or “The rapist broke you for everyone else.”

      Am I bitchy about being assaulted and being treated like shit for it? Fuck yes I am! And I’m not going to apologize for being angry about it. I’m not about to be sorry for being angry when someone posts something idiotic that continues to place the onus on women and women alone for “controlling” a man’s actions.

      Call me and others like me bitchy all you want. I will wear the shit like a badge of honor.

    • meteor_echo

      Well paint me bitchy then. I think I get to be bitchy and provocative when it comes to my own rape – as well as every other survivor does.

    • PPD

      I am TURBO Bitchy when it comes to Rape….just ask my teenaged daughter how Bitchy I can be.

    • Kate m.

      I am totally a bitch about rape. Look at me, bitching about how it should stop and how the onus should fall on men to not rape. Everyone needs to be bitchy about this, including men.

    • Altair

      Until you start acknowledging that men can be raped as well, and that women can be abusive as well, your bitchiness now matter how well intentioned will keep alienating potential allies.
      If men are hearing that women don’t care about the violence committed against them, especially violence committed by women, why should they care about women at all?

    • Makabit

      Interestingly, most of the energy I see men putting into protecting other men from rape and abuse at the hands of women takes the form of acting out on the Internet every time it’s suggested that women are fed up with victim-blaming in rape cases.

      This could be because I’m not aware of the constructive activist work going on out there, in which case, please do link me so I can learn more. It could be because men are not sure how to organize themselves and access power in our society to reeducate people about how gender stereotyoing fails men who are victims of assault.

      Or it could be that this is mostly about lashing out at women for having the nerve to object to deeply rooted cultural misogyny. Your guess is as good as mine.

  • http://profile.typepad.com/6p00e55366ef348834 Tessa

    I’ve always thought it was ridiculous that women are the ones expected “not to go out at night”, “not to walk in certain sections of town”, “don’t go alone”, etc. Men are the ones who apparently can’t control themselves, if anyone should be locked inside, put on curfews, they are the ones who shouldn’t be allowed at night. Shame about the innocent ones being punished but that’s exactly what women are – punished for simply being women and they aren’t even doing anything wrong.

    • Ty

      Eh, men make up the vast majority of crime victims of every crime category except rape. Is that something to be ignored? Don’t act like going out at night is only unsafe for women.

    • meg

      This is an article about one very particular, extraordinarily violent (psychologically if not always physically) crime. What do the demographics of others have to do with anything?

    • Sorien

      It’s called “special pleading”. Look it up.

    • Ricardo Aguilera

      Becaus its framed as a female problem when just as many men are victims…isn’t that kinda on I dunno sexist and bigoted?

    • McGauth925

      I think that most men already know that, very clearly. It’s facile to say there wouldn’t be any rapes if that were true, but it also might mean than more than 1 in 60 men would be rapists, were it not true.

      I’ll never like it thst women can’t find the rapists, so they feel the need to chastise all men, as though we’re all guilty. They have to yell at somebody, so men, in general, will have to do. Shoot ‘em all and let God sort ‘em out.

    • Ricardo Aguilera

      Couple things wrong with your argument dear.

      First off rapist are criminals who decided to rape even knowing its a crime…believe it or not rape is recognized as a crime and a illegal activity. Men are not rapist, rapist are rapist…whom embody as a very small collection of male and female members. Rape is also not only directional from man to woman, 40% of all rapist on male children are women and 40% of all rapist on adult men are women. However keeping into account that male rape victims often have a hard time seeing themselves as victims or coming forward thanks to sexist bigots like you who think all men are rapist beast who need to be locked up… Id say male rape victims are far more likely to surprised then female victims.

      Also I know about the RANN statistics but keep in mind that rape by envelopement which is the only physical way a woman could rape a man is not counted as actual rape….talk about rape culture when men can’t even legally be considered rape victims unless its through penetration. Furthermore, if a woman walks down a dark alley piss drunk and butt naked…your seriously not gonna tell me that’s not bad judgement.

      From hence forth I shall tell every parent not to tell their children to look both ways before crossing cause they shouldn’t have to be taught to avoid tragic, drivers just shouldn’t drive or be allowed outta their house cause clearly all they wanna do is run people down.

    • riz

      where did you get that statistics? I am curious to know. thanks

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000059419448 John Green

    “Bitch” is a word that has no male counterpoint by definition. It is one of the tools the misogynist uses to shut women up. Never doubt that is what they want to do.

    • Byron

      Actually, men call other men “bitch” all the time. It’s not new even. The term has become unisex.

    • Kai

      What men do you hang around with?

    • LoveyDovey

      The connotations are still sexist. It’s an insult meant to compare the target to a woman, and it’s understood in that context to be a bad thing.

    • McGauth925

      Right. You can say that it’s about misogyny, and you can also say that the punishment for transgressing the male gender role is harsher. Men are harsher and more violent towards other men. We’ve been taught to use one interpretation, when the other is just as valid.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shane-Simmons/100000053744641 Shane Simmons

      It’s still sexist? And here I’ve been using it unisex. What a gyp!

    • Ashley

      When a man calls another man a bitch, it is used as an insult. He is being criticized for acting “womanly,” which is unacceptable and shameful. Because feminine traits are just the worst, amirite? It’s still based in misogyny.

    • Ricardo Aguilera

      What about a dick or asshole…and what about women who call other women bitches,cunts and even dykes….oops guess I ruined the fantasy that only women are insulted.

    • Ashley

      Neither I, nor anyone ever, suggested that only women are insulted. The issue is that these particular insults (bitch, cunt) target all feminine identifying people, regardless of the gender of the person being insulted.When you insult someone for “acting like a woman,” you contribute to stereotypes and the lesser status of women.

      Women using these insults against each other is not a sign that it’s okay. It just shows that women grew up in the same shitty society as everyone else. Internalized misogyny is a Thing.

      Lots of people (plenty of feminists) have a problem with dick as an insult as well, due to the fact that it is gendered. Given men’s relative status in society, I would argue it doesn’t have as much power as feminine insults. I know you won’t like that answer because you don’t believe it’s coming from a place of truth. I don’t care. When you call someone a bitch, you’re upset that they are acting “like a woman.” When you call someone a dick, you are NOT saying, “you’re bad because you’re acting like a man.” I understand, however, the desire to reduce the use of all gendered insults.

      Asshole is not a gendered insult and has nothing to do with this discussion. Everyone has an asshole, some people are assholes, and some people deserve to be called assholes

      Hope that helps you better understand where we poor, victimized feminists are coming from.

    • Ricardo Aguilera

      So when you talk about men’s relative status in society I assume you mean all those millions of men at the bottom rung of society who comprise the majority of the homeless and work related deaths at blue collar jobs and not the few limited percentile of men in top positions….just double checking cause I noticed this lovely tendency of feminist believing every man who has ever lived is bill freaking gates who can’t ever possibly suffer in any possible way unless of course he chose to suffer.

      Anyways I hope you do realize that no justification is going to minimize the intention behind a slur. The fact that you would rationalize a insult or verbal abuse by proxy of the offended parties genitals is dangerously close to most bigots justification of abusing certain targets. It’s counter intuitive to equality to claim insulting 1 group of people isn’t as bad as insulting another…like you do realize how sexist it is to say that being called a dick isn’t as bad as being called a bitch. Sexism is sexism regardless if its coming from a man or woman and furthermore you must be high on some dishonesty cannabis if you believe for a second that asshole isn’t near exclusive to men much like the word creep or pervert.

      From what I gather from your post as a poor victimized feminist, gendered slurs are fine so long as men are the target because so long as a few men are successful in society then whatever we say to them doesn’t matter. Gotta love that equality eh:)

    • Ashley

      It’s pretty clear that you made no attempt to understand what I was saying, and that you will never make any attempt to truly understand what any feminists are saying, given your misunderstanding of the concept of privilege (I promise you there is no feminist alive who believes men are incapable of suffering,). Given that, I’m not going to waste my energy replying to this misinformed garbage. Thanks for playing.

    • riz

      How about FUCK

    • Kyle1172

      You mean you were proven wrong on the ‘male privilege’ bs model, so acted like you were really clever by shaming him.

      Classic feminist dumb and bitter.

      Lame.

      Maybe you should learn to debate in a calm manner as he did.

      But then again if you did that you’d probably have quit feminism a while ago.

    • Ashley

      Oh no, am I being hysterical?

    • Kyle1172

      You could say that if you call a guy a dick they you are insulting all men’s status by implying the male sexual organ, a strong part of his masculinity is somehow something to be ashamed off.

      It goes both ways, you are obsessed with women, and women only being victims, in reality it’s both ways like I said.

      An insult is just insult, I only analysed to show your hypocrisy and to highlight how silly it really is to imply such far reaching things outs of impulsive insults.

      Also, women are rarely called assholes, if it all.

      It’s mainly centred at males. If I was into the feminist thing and reversed it I could say that it means that men are considered as being more dirty or something like that, talk about it bringing all men down.

      I could talk about the use of the term pig, again just against males (or 99% of the time) as making men out to be dirty and animalistic

      At the end of the day you are digging deep for meanings in basic instinctive insults, it’s just silly.

    • D

      tell the truth bad conduct towards another result in the way they are called.i tel u disrespectful tones of gender related come frm men .I neva cald a woman a bitch or pig in my life.yet I knw d word bitch came frm men and its passed to women and women even use it on demselves.sexually harassed women use the word pig for men who do dat mostly to dem.i tel u d word pig is universal that it coms frm a scorned lady .it an instinct that is so natural that it instantly define the way of that person.i dnt support bin biased yet I hate flatterin men like some women shoot demselves in the foot.men r smart creatures that dodges the truth all d time.women r cald gold diggers in general it has bin applied wrongly and it has given men a funny instinct about them yet I will tel u that many women r even more resourceful and dey dnt agree the word is mearnt for them yet they will agree there r gold digging women out there.does that mean it doesn’t apply to some or few men yet it does but d word is commonluy used among women cos it was discovered that most women tend to see a man as their providers until some r breaking the cycle to keep their dignity by expectin a man to do his job while they do thiers and take care of their responsibilities as well.does that mean men wont tk care of their roles no.yet we know where dis word is used most and we tend to correct gold digging act everyday infact we have conquered to a great extent so we can even find ourselves as women.let men face their wrongs and some dumb women shud stop defending them.cos u r merely making it worse to dsee who d real hypocrites are. LIVE UP TO CORRECTING YR MISTAKE AND STOP BRINGING UP EXCUSES AND HATRED SHOUTING SEXIST HERE SEXIST THERE MAY BE U R D GREATEST OF ALL SEXIST YET U REFUSE TO KNW.

    • Kyle1172

      It’s not, it’s based on gender identity.

      Much like women will bully another woman because she looks masculine by calling her a man.

      You search so avidly for women’s status being eroded, or women being centralised at a great mission by men to be demeaned.

      Trust me, it’s just an insult, a man being feminine is not accepted, a woman being masculine is similarly not accepted.

      It goes both ways.

      No man is insulting women when he calls a man a bitch, he is simply expressing dislike for that man or trying to manipulate the man into being more brave.

    • McGauth925

      Try dick, bastard, and creep. Creep seems to be a catch-all phrase that women use to describe men they’re not attracted to, who ARE attracted to those women.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shane-Simmons/100000053744641 Shane Simmons

      Bastard stands for a person who is conceived out of wedlock and has traditionally been used a a pejorative, sometimes historically against the person conceived out of wedlock.

    • Kyle1172

      Pig, bastard, asshole, dick, jerk, wanker…

      Plenty of male only insults that you could see as a counter.

      You make it sound like some sort of war is on, do you scowl at men you see in the street? I just get that vibe off you… xD

  • Kai

    Why do you see talking to boys about what not to do and talking to girls about how avoid being done to as mutually exclusive concepts?

    • LoveyDovey

      You just refuse to actually think about what people are trying to tell you, aren’t you?

    • Kai

      How is this anything other than two separate concepts being presented as an either-or situation? I understand why people want to concentrate on the perpetrator side, since that has too long been neglected, but I simply fail to see why people think only one can be considered at once.

    • LoveyDovey

      Do you really have NO idea how you come across when you advocate a “doing X and Y will prevent Z” standpoint? Do you not realize how horrible you sound when you advocate putting a rape victim up as a cautionary tale? Are you seriously so sheltered from the world that you don’t seem to care about how your words hurt rape victims? How many times do I have to repeat myself before you’ll actually THINK about what I and others have been trying to say?

      You keep framing it in a specific way that still invites victim blaming and giving rapists wiggle room while at the same time ignoring the many other ways that women are raped. Nobody is saying we need to stop educating girls on ways to protect themselves. We’re saying that we need to stop phrasing it the way we have been that does nothing to address the underlying issues that fuels violence against women in the first place.

      We all already know all the usual rigamarole about watching our drinks in bars, not accepting opened drinks from strangers, don’t drink too much, ad nauseum. Shit still happens, and continuing to harp on those specific things, especially after the fact, does more harm than good and does not change anything.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shane-Simmons/100000053744641 Shane Simmons

      We’ve been teaching kids to not commit crime and to be honest for millenia. And yet, we still have rapists, murderers, thieves, and liars.

  • http://www.8bitdad.com Zach Rosenberg

    I’d love to come up with some sort of counterpoint or stat or something to say “no no, we need to do _______ instead.” But I just don’t have one. It’s true: men need to have the conversation a lot more (and that’s an understatement) than they do. It needs to be a page in the fatherhood handbook. There needs to be some meaningful conversation from men to boys about respecting women, not using them as objects in any way, and not ever forcing themselves upon them.

    I mean, sure, we as a culture need to have other conversations as a group with both genders involved, but for sure, this needs to be a man-fueled, father-son thing.

    • http://www.xojane.com/author/eve Eve Vawter

      I know you are on the same page Zach and I appreciate your opinions, and you and 8 bit dads!

    • Kyle1172

      Not really, only a very cruel person will rape, it’s not going to be programmed out by a sit down and talk.

      If you tell your kid not to murder it’d be exactly the same.

      All you are doing is insulting your childs character by claiming they could ever rape/kill someone.

      If they are that sort of person then they will do it regardless.

      EVERYONE knows rape is wrong, from a very young age, on an instinctive level especially.

      This whole shaming all males for rape thing has gone too far, It’s not your fault if another male chooses to rape, it’s their choice, period.

    • d

      u r too defensive.women agree something like gold digging is bad yet nt all but most common among them,infact we have more than many women who r resourceful cos dey want their own identityand dignity while their men provide yet they wont dispute this act if mama warns them.men shud just give up the too defensive act alredy and have a proper forum.men r just humans like women nofin more no one is above errors.ppl shud talk about rape to their children .rape comes frm many motives nt even until u force evry women infact they r dft traps dat r used.cruelty and scheming is an act that reside in d heart of human biengs so dnt say it next time dat its shaming men.iot good it exposes them dan a cover for pride.all bad characters shud be warned against and exposed period.

  • Tea

    This is a bit hard to write, and is probably disjointed due to emotions being high in my posting but I hope the point comes across well. My name is Tea, and I don’t think that rape is just a problem of men preying upon women. I think the gender part should be stressed less, and but the critical components of Respect for others and the self, and consent be taught as openly as possible. I’m not trying to argue against you, because I think you have very good points, my plea is just to consider widening the scope of these talks, because you never know who might need it.

    Why? In high school I was sexually assaulted by another male, a student at my school and didn’t say a word for years. Why? Because I was ashamed, I felt used, I didn’t want to be called any homosexual slurs. Aside from the catholic church scandal a few years before, I didn’t even think of it as a thing that happened, especially from someone who to me didn’t seem “Gay enough” to do that (I was a homophobic little snot at the time, the Midwest does that to scared bisexual boys.) I didn’t understand why or how it happened, I thought I failed, in ways I still can’t really articulate.

    I’ve known women who were sexually abused by women, and men who were by men, and even one male-assigned-at-birth individual who was raped by a woman in college. This usually happens as children or teenagers. It happens for any gender combination, but same sex rape is very rarely if ever reported, and many victims also see themselves as having “deserved” it or see it as a consequence of their own “Mistakes”, and not the act of violence that it truly is. There is even less support in the world for same-sex and cross-sex abuse, especially if the abused is queer.

    I think both genders need to be educated consistently and at as young an age as they can understand about consent, respect, and knowing what’s not okay to have done to your body. Especially for young children of either gender, who don’t need the whole birds and the bees and “don’t rape drunk people” when they still play with legos, but do need to know what sort of contact is and isn’t okay, and that your body is very much your own, and that it’s okay to talk about things. A lot of the “method” these days seems to be “Girls, don’t do ____ or you’ll get raped” and all I know is even though I wasn’t a girl, I felt like I had failed at protecting myself, and needed to stay quiet in shame because I earned this. I can’t imagine how it is for women, hearing the lesson of avoidance their whole lives and not knowing how to cope if something does happen.

    Just saying ” Do not Rape.” won’t do any good, especially with violent cases and per-meditated planning that needs serious therapy and not just a lecture. I think almost everyone in theory knows that it’s bad, and probably equates that with “Don’t violently rape a woman” but it’s not so often stressed that taking advantage of someone who is drunk or impaired isn’t okay. Consent needs to be stressed in school sexual education curriculum as well, for sexual education beyond just ” we assume you’re all straight, this is how a condom works, wait until marriage, now go to math class.” The closest exposure I ever got was in college, where it became painfully clear that very few people understood real consent or respect, as an anonymous sexual Q&A yielded some rather horrifying comments.

    I’m not trying to pull blame from men at all in my statements, more just stressing that this problem goes even deeper than some people are aware, and that everyone needs to be educated on both sides of the risk fence. And unfortunately, no matter how much we try, there will still be monsters out there, but we need to make it easier for victims to come forward, and give much more education on what real consent is.

    This has been a Tea tangent, and now I feel I really need a stiff drink. I hope it was coherent.

    • LoveyDovey

      Thank you for having the strength to share that. We need people from all walks of life who have been through this to speak up. I hope you’re doing well on your path to healing.

    • http://www.facebook.com/houde.veronique Véronique Houde

      Wow! So gracefully put! Thank you for this, you were able to put into words what I was also thinking.

    • LiteBrite

      Your “Tea tangent” was very coherent, and you said much of what I actually planned to say.

      To me, rape is not a “man problem” but rather a PEOPLE problem. As you articulately pointed out, men don’t just prey on women. It’s not just a matter of having respect for women; it’s a matter of having respect for other people. That’s the essence of what we are trying to teach our son.

      Thank you for your bravery in sharing your story and your thoughts.

    • Ricardo Aguilera

      So some are born without morality and daughters are. Interesting fact, most rapist come from single mother households where they most likely received sexual abuse of some kind…maybe we should teach single mothers not to rape their sons instead and get to the root of the problem?

    • http://www.xojane.com/author/eve Eve Vawter

      You made me cry :( Thank you for sharing this.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Judy-Block-Jones/1065937918 Judy Block-Jones

      Tea, thank you so much for bringing this to the discussion. NO ONE deserves to be raped. whether is be a female or a male. I know of many, many young boys who have been raped by catholic priests and nuns. It is devastating for them..And rape is considered anything that crosses the line into being sexual.

      When it comes to rape, it is not so much about sex….It is more about abuse of power. and that is what we see in these football players, they have been put on such a high pedestal that they feel it is their right to do whatever.and they will not get caught.

      Rape to a females or a males is about POWER…

      tks, Judy Jones, SNAP

    • McGauth925

      That’s the feminist interpretation, which is now coming into question. There are people who know more about it than you and I, and some of them are saying it IS about sex, because it’s mostly young men doing the raping, and mostly young women being raped. People are telling us that rape is fairly common in the animal kingdom, while we all thought it was caused by historical mistake where men came to need to have power and control over women. People are saying it’s more often low status men who rape women that they would never have access to by any other method. And, theh’re saying it’s not so much some kind of aberration, but a strategy that has worked forever for low status males. So, there’s more to it than the common notion that men have been taught that they should have power over women.

    • Kyle1172

      It’s nothing to do with power….

      It’s sexual desire you fool.

      Much like theft.

    • Leigha7

      I think you’re right about needing to teach children about boundaries from a young age. We now usually teach them to tell an adult if someone touches them inappropriately (or at least, they taught us that in school when I was young), but we don’t put forth much effort toward teaching children to develop their own personal boundaries beyond that–in fact, in some instances, we actively discourage them from doing so. How many times have you seen a parent force a child to hug/be hugged by someone (grandparent, aunt, uncle, family friend) they just plain didn’t want to hug? It happens fairly frequently, and while I understand that you feel they should hug this trusted person, and that it would offend the adult if the child were to refuse to do so, shouldn’t you be respecting their right to bodily autonomy and telling them they never have to hug someone if they don’t want to?

      I think if children were taught from the beginning that they don’t have to engage in any sort of unwanted physical contact (barring certain circumstances, of course, such as going to the doctor) AND that they should never force anyone else to do so either, it would help some. At the very least, it might lessen the number of not-entirely-intentional-per-se rapes, where the person knows what they’re doing but manages to convince themselves it isn’t wrong.

      I don’t think there’s anything we can do about the sociopaths who intentionally set out to rape people just for the heck of it. Some people just want to watch the world burn, as they say, and they are those people.

    • dump d pride

      when u don’t teach some ppl things they grow up into monsters .its a shame I see some saying why will u mention it to your son lol..u told yr son stealin and murder is wrong yet u cudnt mention rape what kind of teachin is that .half baked they say…nowseeing men getting embarrassed at dis topic makes me laf,if u dnt teach yr son den u r nt giving any one a reason to knw the gravity as long as they can blame it on the victim.talk about it,preach it, dnt let them become schemers and transfer the shame and blame to d women.at least there rppl who specialize in rape rada than any other thing.they dnt steal but when they see when .they be like oh”"” sex …. but the point is… its not my fault is d answer to the crime.. so plz let us put away male pride and drop d habit,set a good mood and proper connection btw men and women rada than animalistic behavior that clouds youthfulness. som years ago I hwud have bin a victim until I alarmed the person about my health and the risk as at dat time I was recurpuratting and yet I had to live my life and see a so cald gud friend.gud friend is in character nt when u watch them 100 percent. he surrendered immediately cos he wudnt want to be carryin a supposed murder.nw nt all ladies or girls do get to avoid that situation.even good boys who u wudnt tink of can give rape a ..try.teach”teach”teach

    • MCR

      Thank you so much for sharing this. The original post was spot on, but your “tangent” is also.

    • Audra Walton

      <3

  • meg

    THIS x 100000

  • lin

    Very well said! My son is only 5, but I am already teaching him to never do something to a person if they say “no”. If he tries to hug a friend and they say “no”, or even just backs away, he must stop. I make a big deal about it being their body, and once they have said “no” he needs to take his hands off. A little young for a talk about rape, but laying the foundations of respect for others and boundaries.

    • Justme

      I do the same with my daughter….if she doesn’t want to give out hugs or kisses I don’t force her because she needs to understand that her NO has power.

    • http://www.xojane.com/author/eve Eve Vawter

      I agree with both you and Lin, I do the same thing. My ten year old came home before break and said “MOM! I kissed my friend who is a girl on the cheek! I ran up and kissed her!” and we had a talk about drive-by kissing and how he should never ever do that without permission and then he said “But it’s Christmas!” and I felt like a jerk :( But now he knows better.

    • Ricardo Aguilera

      How nice…teaching your son he’s a creep and a pervert, what a wonderful mother you are:)

    • Kyle1172

      That’s because you are a fucking jerk, there is NOTHING wrong with what he did, who the fuck do you think you are?

      Your sexist attitude towards males is so strong that even your son has to deal with it, there is nothing wrong with kissing a friend on the cheek, especially at Christmas.

      What is wrong with you?

      You should be ASHAMED of yourself, I bet your son grows up to hate you if you continue to be such a massive bitch.

    • Kyle1172

      Most people have never had a talk about rape, or murder etc.

      Such ‘talks’ won’t do anything.

      If your son lacks self control and empathy enough, he will rape whatever you tell him.

      He will instinctively know it is wrong anyway, just like I did from a young age, without my mum ever telling me not to rape.

      Telling someone not to rape is just disrespectful, if my mum told me that I would have nothing but contempt for her.

      Fortunately it’s very unlikely any male will rape, it’s a tiny percentage.

  • Tinyfaeri

    I agree with every word in this post.

  • http://www.makingloveinthemicrowave.com/ Aja Jackson

    I 100% agree that the focus needs to be shifted toward rapists. No one should get raped no matter what their behavior. However I don’t understand why that negates the importance of talking to girls about safety. I think that you’ve equated having that conversation with rape shaming in this article and those are two different things. Unfortunately, there are rapists. They exist. I’m not saying to tell your daughters “Don’t wear a short skirt or you’ll get yourself raped,” but teaching general safety–stay with a group, don’t invite strange men back to your apt, trust your intuition when you feel like a situation is unsafe– isn’t shaming, its trying to equip your girls with safety tools much in the same way that I teach my son about private parts, not talking to strangers etc. If he were, after all of that, to be god forbid sexually abused by a stranger, I wouldn’t say “See I told you not to talk to strangers,” but that doesn’t mean I’m not going to teach him about it. No one deserves to be robbed at gunpoint either, but it doesn’t mean I would tell you to walk into the worst part of town carrying $1200 cash in your hand. A crime, rape or otherwise, is always the fault of the person committing it, never the fault of the victim, but it doesn’t mean that understanding your personal safety is unimportant.

    • tes

      I’m surprised to see thumbs down on this post…of course we should still teach about personal safety! It’s not about restricting anyone’s freedom, it’s about learning to use common sense and avoiding potentially dangerous situations. All the education in the world may help REDUCE rape and other crimes, but it won’t make it disappear.

    • chisaineko

      I think the thumbs down are because this comment asserts that the author wants us to stop educating women about safety in favor of educating men about not raping, which is not the point at all. Of course we do still need to teach about safety, but we need to ADD conversations about not raping because our culture spends way too much time acting like the ONLY way to avoid a rape is for women to “be safe,” which is one way of blaming women for being raped.

    • McGauth925

      I Don’t buy it. I don’t think men rape women because they don’t understand how wrong and harmful it is. I just read that 1 in 60 ,men rape women, and I have no idea how they came up with that number. But, if it’s true, it doesn’t make sense to me that 59 guys get the message, and 1 doesn ‘t.

      But, making it clear to young children will make things better between men and women. Not all unwanted intimacy is about rape.

    • Kyle1172

      If they want to they’ll do it, much like when you tell them not to lie, but they still do it.

      It’s up to your childs own personal character development and decisions.

      Telling them not to rape is common sense, they will know that from a very young age without need for any ‘talk’

      Do you know not to rape? did you get a talk?

      I sure never got a talk and have never heard of it.

      All it will do is make your child think you’re insulting their character or lack thereof…

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Shane-Simmons/100000053744641 Shane Simmons

      “It’s over. Everyone, it is OVER. We are done having the conversation about how we can prevent our daughters from getting raped.”

      How did anyone get confused? I just don’t know. And it’s a mindset growing in prevalence, too. I saw on BoingBoing a while back where a Kickstarter project was trying to raise funds to teach self-defense to women, and it was one of the sentiments expressed by incredulous readers.

      The thing is…*sigh*…we teach kids that murder is wrong. We teach them that stealing is wrong. That lying is wrong. And yet, people still lie, steal, and murder. Why would rape be different? It’s a more personal, tragic crime, but it’s yet another crime. As cruel as the laws of Deuteronomy are, Judaism has had laws pertaining to rape for nearly 3600 years, and there have been scandals where rabbis in Israel have tried to cover up child molestation cases.

      I hope this doesn’t sound like mansplaining. I’ve been having this kick around in my head for a while, and it’s really bothered me. This is the first I’ve been able to articulate it, the way I’ve wanted to. As much as I’d like to say that fathers are responsible to teach their boys to not rape, I’m going to make sure that when my daughters are old enough to date, they know some basic pressure points and have some pepper spray handy.

    • http://www.facebook.com/dchebert Denise Hebert

      “A crime, rape or otherwise, is always the fault of the person committing it, never the fault of the victim,” While this is true… SO many times, when it comes to rape, there is very much a blame the victim “thing” that happens. Some times, it happens in the community. people of the same sex of the survivor (because trust me, if you’re raped, whether violent “stranger” or less violent “acquaintance” rape, it’s still something you survived) will try to come up with all of the reasons that “It can’t happen to me”. Then, if it goes to trial, it happens in the court as the defense does its job. Slut shaming happens. Blaming the victim happens. If someone breaks into your house and steals your stereo/TV/computer, no one thinks twice about what you should have done differently, except for you. If you’re raped… Almost everyone tries to think of how it can’t happen to them or someone they care about, so they look to the survivor, and what they’d had to drink, or where they were, or what they were wearing. Is it right? No way. but it happens. And it gets even worse when the rapist is someone that you know.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Judy-Block-Jones/1065937918 Judy Block-Jones

    Great job Mommyish..

    This recently released video is despicable and disgusting, our hearts go out to the young girl and her family.

    Since these boys took nude photos of the young girl without her permission, and sent them over the internet, that might legally constitute child porn. We hope federal law enforcement will consider getting involved.

    Also, a lengthy New York Times story a couple of weeks ago provides chilling details about the rape of a girl and the inadequate response to that crime by Steubenville school officials.

    After reading about this case, we cannot help but see some parallels between this situation and that which occurred at Penn State. Although the crimes are different, it is a fact of both cases that in each there is a definite mystique around the football program and a cult of personality surrounding the coach (Paterno at PSU, and Reno Saccoccia in Steubenville). In both cases, the love of football has prevented the proper investigation into the alleged rape and the punishment of those involved.

    We call on the school board to suspend Coach Saccoccia for his behavior. The fact that he has refused to take any real disciplinary steps towards the football players that either witnessed or in some way abetted the alleged rape is disturbing, and his treatment of the New York Times journalist who spoke to him about the case is frightening. His actions are indicative of someone who cares more about their win-loss record than about the young people they are supposed to be improving.

    We also urge the school board to examine the actions of Superintendent Michael McVey and Principal Shawn Crosier. We are disappointed that they left all disciplinary decisions up to Coach Saccoccia, and the fact that they failed to follow up with any of the students in attendance at the party where the alleged rape occurred is distressing. This sad case has all the tell tale signs of an attempted cover-up, and our hearts ache for the victim in this case who has been subjected to undue scrutiny and blame. We hope that the added attention on Steubenville High School will result in justice for the victim, repercussions for the alleged rapists, and accountability for Steubenville officials.

    Judy Jones, SNAP Midwest Associate Director, USA, 636-433-2511. snapjudy@gmail.com,
    “SNAP (The Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests) is the world’s oldest and largest support group for clergy abuse victims. SNAP was founded in 1988 and has more than 12,000 members. Despite the word priest in our title, we have members who were molested by religious figures of all denominations, including nuns, rabbis, bishops, teachers, Protestant ministers and increasingly, victims who were assaulted in a wide range of institutional settings like orphanages, summer camps, athletic programs, Boy Scouts, etc.”

  • trac ingr

    Well, as lomg as you believe in the LIBERAL application of he first ammendment and the extreme CONSERVATIVE application and even DENIAL of the second ammendment, this will continue
    These kids watched any movie, game, pron they wanted to, and thats how they developed their world view.
    I doubt the parents TAUGHT them to rape and be violent and non caring and unhuman, but im sure the protected speech of hollywood, game makers and the internet had some effect.

    As long as that is allowed to continue unfettered, this type of behaviour will persist, and as long as it does, I would use the second ammendment to protect yourself from the outcomes of the first

  • dee

    We should be teaching our children collectively to be good people who respect the boundaries of others so they grow into adults that respect the boundaries of women, men, and children.

    • Altair

      Silly Dee, don’t you know that women never do bad things and men are never victims?

      Sarcasm aside, I agree, women do bad things all the time, they victimize children and men, but that’s never talked about.
      Violence and rape is a human problem, and should be dealt with as such.

  • Ian

    This post is ludicrous. No one says “we should educate people not to kill”, because the sad unfortunate fact is we live in the REAL world where people will still kill no matter how much you tell them “Don’t Do it”, for a variety of different reasons. Same with Rape. the discussion is NOT over. This girl absolutely did NOT deserve to be raped, but she got drunk & passed out at a party full of young drunk men who, obviously met the criteria for being rapists, despite the fact there were probably NO outward signs of this threat. She should have NEVER put herself in this situation in the first place. It’s just common sense.

    • CMJ

      VICTIM BLAMER.

    • Ian

      If she chose to drink heavily to the point of unconsciousness with a group of drunken men she deserves the blame of making poor choices. Any Denial of this fact is complete lunacy.

      If a tough guy black belt dude decides to walk thru Central Park in NYC at 2am, knowing how dangerous it is because it’s his “right” to go anywhere he wants & do anything he wants, it’s partially HIS fault when he gets jumped & beaten/murdered by a group of thugs for stupidly putting himself into that situation.

    • CMJ

      We all make poor choices sometimes. It doesn’t mean we deserve to be raped or to be blamed for being raped. Or murdered. Or robbed. By your logic, anything that we poor choice we might makes someone partially to blame if something bad happens to us.

      The funny thing is, I would never believe that it is even partially your “black belt dude’s” fault to get beaten. Just like I don’t believe a woman is ever to blame for being raped.

      And for the record, no amount of good parenting, self-esteem, confidence, can prevent me from being raped. The discussion never stops with women. WE KNOW about the dangers because they have been ingrained in us since we were younger. This article doesn’t suggest that we don’t talk to the women/girls of this world about rape and general safety..it suggests we make sure the men/boys are part of the discussion as well. Let’s make sure it’s ingrained in their heads too.

    • blablabla

      you are to blame for putting yourself in a situation that may lead to you being a victim of crime. No one is saying you DESERVE the crime that is perpetrated on you. That is why the justice system does not punish people for making stupid decisions that puts them into those situations. Because we are not saying they deserve that crime to happen to them. Why dont you people ever read?

      “…it suggests we make sure the men/boys are part of the discussion as well”
      Oh you mean by telling them to not rape? Speaking of which, what about the women who do rape? Do we tell them not to rape, or do we only tell boys to not rape? Becase, according to this article and you, only boys can rape and only women can be raped. Honestly, you people are so fucking ignorant of the real rape epidemic because the government does not consider a woman who envelops a man against his will to be raped and hence he is not counted in rape statistics, thereby making rape seem to be an overwhelmingly female issue (in terms of victimhood anyway) when its really about 50/50 OUTSIDE of prison. When prison rapes are counted, men are the majority of victims of rape. But no, we need only tell our sons not to rape and say nothing to our daughters right? Cause women are perfect little angels and men are gritty, dirty rape monsters, right? Yeah, i think your hatred of men (misandry for those of you who dont know) is showing.

    • MegaSolipsist

      Ian didn’t say that it was their fault for being raped/killed/etc, he said that they were partially responsible for making terrible, stupid decisions, such as walking through an area known to be very dangerous just because they have the right to, or drinking to the point where they pass out in an area that isn’t safe.

    • Anne Cordelia

      YOU’RE ludicrous for writing somthing so incredibly wrong-headed. Here’s what’s common sense; it is never okay to blame the victim. NEVER.

    • Maggie

      You fucking suck, dude. Victim blaming at its’ worst. I seriously hope you don’t have a daughter.

    • Ian

      My daughter will be raised to respect herself, and know that putting herself into dangerous situations is unacceptable, because she will have high self esteem, confidence, and all the love & good parenting possible from a strong Father.

      She will also learn Gracie JiuJitsu (from me) and Marine LINE CombativesTraining (from her Uncle) from the moment she can walk.

    • angela tsames

      All that still won’t stop someone from DRUGGING you deliberately. It won’t stop a gang of someone’s to decide to take away your humanity, They do what they want, don’t care, and get away with it.

      There are so many unreported rapes, because the perps know how to get away with it. They leave no evidence and choose vulnerable victims.

    • blablabla

      Its ridiculous how you people think that we can stop rape by telling people not to rape more than we already do. Its baffling how stupid you people are. If the world worked as easily as you morons think it does, crime would already be done with. You people are basically trying to solve rape by going all Dora the Explorer on it “Rapists, no raping!” Fucking stupid. Yes, you can never lower the chance of being a victim of crime to 0% but there IS something to be said for being smart. For not drinking till you pass out at a party. That is not blaming the victim, you idiots, that is called BEING FUCKING SMART and making sure you dont put yourself in a vulnerable position. No one deserves to have ANY crime perpetrated against them if they are good people, but WE DONT LIVE IN THAT PERFECT LITTLE WORLD! Stop telling women to not worry about their bodies at all. Tell women to watch out and be careful so they can REDUCE their chances of being victims. This is NOT VICTIM BLAMING! It is teaching PRAGMATIC fucking solutions to help REDUCE crime. If I leave my doors unlocked, i dont deserver to get robbed (OBVIOUSLY) but you would tell me after i got robbed “Well why did you leave your doors unlocked?” That is not victim blaming. I swear feminists are freaking idiots.

    • whiteroses

      I have extensive knowledge of krav maga and capoiera. I’ve also been taking kickboxing lessons since I was young. My father, a former army colonel, taught me to respect myself. He loved me with all he was worth and still does. I was his princess.

      That didn’t stop one of my college boyfriends from beating the shit out of me. It didn’t stop him from cornering me in my dorm room and cutting off my hair (which had been waist length) with a razor. I beat his ass, but he outweighed me by nearly 70 pounds, so there wasn’t much I could do.
      A friend of mine has a black belt in karate. She’s the oldest of four, and she has a very strong sense of self. She was walking home from work one night and four guys dragged her into an alley. They beat her, raped her, and left her for dead. She didn’t “put herself in a dangerous situation”. She was walking home from work. The street where she lives is well-lit and it’s in a nice neighborhood. She’d walked on that route dozens of times before. She managed to break one of her rapist’s nose and the other ones jaw. But they still raped her. Her black belt saved her life, but it didn’t prevent her rape, because when you have a 95 pound woman against four men, there’s not a hell of a lot you can do.
      This misconception that women who get raped don’t have fathers who love them? Wrong. So incredibly, utterly wrong. The point we’re trying to make here is that rape won’t go away until we stop 1) blaming the victim and 2) making sure that everyone knows we won’t put up with it.

    • Justme

      My daddy loved me too (still does, in fact) but I still ended up in the same situation as you did in college. Six holes punched in my wall and my six foot volleyball playing body thrown across the room. And the thing is, I fell into the very same trap that Ian’s daughter is liable to do. I shamed MYSELF. I should be BETTER than this. I was raised to be a BETTER woman. How could I have done this to myself? And because I was ashamed that I (being a GOOD girl) had fallen into such an abusive relationship, I DIDN’T TELL ANYONE until there were holes in my wall and a restraining order filed.

    • Justme

      Oh Ian. My father did the very same thing – made sure I knew that I was loved, beautiful, smart, capable and worthy.

      But guess what? I still liked the taste of alcohol and hanging out with boys when I was a teenager.

      There’s a good chance that your daughter will like those very same things. And all it takes is one little pill slipped into a drink and that’s YOUR daughter in the picture.

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  • el barto

    DRINK MY SEMEN, FUCKING REDNECKS

  • Archy

    “I do realize that on rare occasions there are women rapists, but statistically, the facts are that more men commit rapes then women commit rapes. So we won’t be having the discussion about how to keep our daughters from becoming rapists. I will be happy to have this discussion when groups of six women and girls brutally rape a man with a steel pipe.”

    20% of rapists being female is not rare. And you do realize that the effects of rape of a single person, even in a non-physically violent in the sense of hitting/punching but just coersion or taking advantage of those whom are unconscious can have very devastating effects on victims, both male n female.

    The recent CDC stats showed in a one year period alone that 1.1% of both men n women were raped, that 79.2% of the male victims reported a female rapist, by their estimates in the US it was about 950,000 men raped by women in a one year period alone (when you include forced to penetrate as rape which is not considered rape by the CDC stats but the numbers are there, table 2.1 in the CDC NISVS 2010 onwards and basically pages 18 to 25 contain the data).

    So a million men raped by women in a year estimated and we shouldn’t be teaching our daughters to stop becoming rapists? Umm rape affects both genders considerably, this myth of female rapists being so rare only allows more n more female rapists to operate untouched leaving millions of men as victims. It does not help to have people both be ignorant of the stats and then to write such foolish words to dismiss female on male rape. Using who gets harmed more as a way to ignore the other is as stupid as us only focusing on male victims of murder and ignoring female victims because 4-6x more men die from violence worldwide (2004 W.H.O statistics).

    Do you not understand that posts like these actually contribute to the culture of harm that male victims face? It minimizes and dismisses their experiences, their vulnerability in favour of protecting women when we should be protecting both genders, telling BOTH genders not to rape. Men can not stop all rape, a large portion of rape that regularly is ignored needs to be addressed, we need to tell our sons and daughters to respect consent, don’t rape, don’t abuse. Dismissing male victims and female perpetrators only contributes to rape culture, failing to have the very important conversation with our daughters and only targeting our sons to stop rape is nothing short of sexist and quite frankly is pretty hypocritical.

  • McGauth925

    Rapists are almost always men. That’s what makes it a man’s issue.

    I think the problem I have with that is, most men believe it’s a rapist’s issue. We don’t feel responsible for what we don’t do, and don’t advocate.

    Some women tell us it’s up to men to change it. But, how many women feel responsible for the crimes of other women? Women commit 2/3 of non-sexual child abuse; are other women, who don’t abuse children, responsible for those women? How many women are out there, wearing t-shirts saying, “Real women don’t abuse children”, and organizing to work against child abuse?

    And, I think women can tell us it’s OUR issue forever, but that that’s not going to motivate the majority of men to start taking action. So, it starts to look like this notion makes women feel better, but doesn’t lead to any other change.

    • Altair

      That’s an excellent point. It’s a rapist’s issue. Most men are not rapists, just as most women are not child abusers.

      The point of these campaigns is to try to shame men into feeling responsible for things they didn’t do and don’t do, in order to put pressure and control on them.

      Why aren’t women considered responsible for bad things other women do? Why aren’t men considered responsible for good things other men do? Following mommyish logic, science is a man problem, since men discovered gravity, relativity, penicillin, performed the first heart transplant and invented the car, the plane and the lightbulb.

      This is all about shame and control, and it will work until men refuse to bear the responsibility for things they didn’t do.

    • Jordan

      Is the point of anti-drug campaigns to shame teens into not doing drugs? It’s more that they are trying to educate them on the ill effects of drugs and encourage not to do them.
      It’s the same for these campaigns, to teach men and boys about the truths of rape. Women know, it has been stressed upon them. Men? Not nearly as much.
      Shame men into feeling responsible? It’s called social responsibility my friend. Although you may not be a rapist and believe that you would never ever rape, you must come to terms with the fact that most rape is committed by men and facilitated by men & our patriarchal society (side effects include misogyny, chauvinism etc).
      Pressure and control? oh man, are you serious? It’s pressuring them not to rape/sexually assault women, children, and other men, and to speak out against rape culture. How is that a bad thing?
      Responsibility: the state or fact of having to deal with something. You can’t be held responsible for good things other people do, that doesn’t make sense. You can be held responsible for bad things other people do, like your children or your oppressive group or race. Again, social responsibility. And science is not a problem, period.
      “This is all about shame and control, and it will work until men refuse to bear the responsibility for things they didn’t do.” LOL

    • MegaSolipsist

      Yes, but saying “Men do more drugs than women, therefore drug abuse is now a man’s issue and all men should bear the responsibility of the few men that do drugs” is quite frankly, absurd.
      This issue involves everyone and should be approached from all angles, without cutting out the second main angle just to make the point that it isn’t THE main angle.

    • Jordan

      Women committing more non-sexual child abuse than men is due to the fact that mothers tend to be the primary caregiver and are usually held accountable for ensuring the safety of children, even in two-parent families.
      As a whole, men are indeed the ones committing rape. Yes yes, we all know, not every man, but the majority of it is done by men. It shouldn’t just be the victimized group speaking out against the crime, individuals apart of the oppressing demographic (even if they themselves aren’t doing the oppressing) should speak out against it too. Just look at the white abolitionists.
      But you know, men get raped too. By other men. So they have yet another reason to speak out against rape/sexual violence and rape culture.
      This is actually a better strategy than the usual safety talks and victim shaming, it’s targeting the root of the problem (or at least it’s more to the root).

    • McGauth925

      I think men are already very ashamed about rape. I hate it that man rape women, for very selfish reasons. All my life women have been telling men what’s wrong with men. It’s had a propaganda effect. Now, I really think most people, men AND women, think men, in general, are of much lower moral and ethical character than women are.

      You would understand if, whenever women were the subject in any media piece, quite often it was about how harmful women are to men, to society, to the Earth. After a few decades of that, during which time virtually NOTHING was discussed about the problems men cause, along with very little about what’s good about women, we wouldn’t think much about women. We’re told that that’s the way it used to be. But, I was around before the Women’s movement, and I don’t remember a huge negative attitude about women.

      So, being told it’s MY responsibility to somehow stop other men from raping women – it feels like more of women concentrating on what’s bad about men, in general. It feels like women are trying to shame men into doing what women want them to do.

      Plus, even with rape being lumped in with all statistics about violence, men are twice as likely to be assaulted as women are. And, nobody cares about that.

      So, I avoid what feels bad, what tells me I’m less than. I reject the notion that I’m responsible for what I don’t do, don’t advocate, and am expected to risk my life to prevent. And, I resent women more, for that approach. I don’t get invited to come along, have a good time, and oh-by the way, help stop women from being raped. I get told I should get my butt out there because I’M part of the problem.

    • Jordan

      Oh man, that sense of entitlement. Give men something worth their while? Hmm, how about the well being of female friends & family, of children and young boys that are raised in this rape culture, and the betterment of our society in general? Is that not enough? How about free candy bars? You talk as if men are children. They’re not, and women should not have to kindly coax them into giving a damn about these issues. It’s worth everyone’s while, obviously.
      Do you know who is entitled though? Women – to their safety, just like every other person. It’s called human rights.
      Blame does fall upon men that turn a blind eye. Just because you don’t advocate rape doesn’t mean you aren’t part of the problem. Women don’t advocate rape either, but it’s been their issue since forever and they’ve been dealing with it. Why not men too? Especially since it’s mainly them/their peers committing these crimes and making light of it with jokes, victim shaming or apathy.
      Tactics, catching more flies with honey. Growing up, I never got paid to do chores. You know why? Because it was my responsibility to do them. I knew I wasn’t entitled to have others clean up after me. Same case here, it should be firmly required of men because that is what logical and moral argument dictates.
      Asking to risk their lives to prevent it? lol If it’s happening right in front of you or something dangerous like that, call the cops. Again, just asking you to do what many women are already doing. Speak up, speak out, set more of an example, and do it often and openly. Men, even average dads, brothers, uncles, buddies etc, as well as big shots with fame/money, have more influence on what other men (and women), think and do. More than the usual women “complaining” or “whining” about it. It’d be great to put that influence to good use.
      Can’t possibly work? It would if more men would human-up and take some action, instead of getting butthurt about not being asked nicely and presented with candy bars.
      Ah yes, resentment. Did you know resentment is lingering anger? Well, rape, rape culture, and the apathetic view men have on “women’s issues” is a lingering problem. Forgive oppressed social groups, they tend to get a bit peeved about injustices they repeatedly suffer.
      Inb4: sorry for redundancy, I’m sleepy.

      Tl;dr: It already is worth their while.

      Tl;dr http://www.ted.com/talks/jackson_katz_violence_against_women_it_s_a_men_s_issue.html >This.

      “Or, again, you would work to make it FUN for me to do what you’d like me to do do – IF what you’d like me to do is actually what you say you’d like me to do.” lmao

    • McGauth925

      We must agree to disagree.

      Maybe women actually can get that it’s-YOUR-responsibility thing to work. And, again, there ARE those side benefits I wrote about. I have to think that that’s what too many women would prefer, that they’re getting exactly what they wanted to get. So, I reject you and your approach.

      And, about rape culture. Sorry, I really think women make a huge contribution to that. Women so often use their sexuality and attractiveness to feed their egos, and to get what they want out of men. Women greatly enjoy the sexuality of other women. Thus, women contribute greatly to the sexualization of women. Being a man, and seeing how other men react to women who have no part of that behavior, I just don’t buy all that you’re selling.

      I don’t encourage robbery. I’m not to blame, any more than any other person in this country, for all the robberies that occur. I have no more responsiblity to take actions about that than any other person. I don’t drink and drive. I’m not responsible for all the DUIs and accidents that occur. You, in your completely sexist way, have decided that, since I’m a man, and men commit the vast majority of rapes – as they do with most other crimes – I, and all other men, are especially responsible for rapes.

      Bad luck with that.

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  • Kady

    Of COURSE no one “deserves” to be raped, this is why there are laws against it. And yet, rape happens, so why would you NOT teach your daughter to do her darndest not to entice a perpetrator by her appearnace or behavior? We do other things to prevent ourselves from being the victim of bodily harm. She could have suffered medical trauma or even died from getting so drunk, let alone raped. If that happened who would be to blame? The parents, the homeowners?

  • Justsayin

    Especially talk to your high-testosterone boys…it’s always the jocks who commit these crimes. Can’t recall hearing about a chess team gang-raping at a drunken chess tournament.

  • Justsayin

    If you raise a boy to respect himself, others, and the law, you will be sending him in a better direction than just telling him to keep it in his pants and tattle on his buddies that don’t.

    • Makabit

      ‘Tattle’? Is that your cute term for ‘report felony to the cops’?

  • Justsayin

    It’s a problem for both men and women. However, I think it’s counterintuitive not to approach it from both sides. I highly doubt anyone would say to their daughters, Now go out and have fun, but don’t drink too much or leave your friends. But if you DO drink too much and someone takes advantage of, or hurts you, don’t worry about looking like you caused it. You are just a helpless girl who couldn’t possibly do anything to prevent these sorts of crimes – that’s the boys problem….Talk about un-empowering women….

  • http://idealistmom.com/ Kelly

    Thank you for this.

    This has been a difficult story to watch unfold, and I’m still trying to make sense of it as a mother of a 5-year-old girl and another girl on the way. I recently wrote a blog post on how I’m responding to it at home with my girl, but it just never feels like enough. But this was an important reminder for me to come across – it’s NOT the woman’s fault. Ever. Ever. Ever.

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  • Nikoloz

    “Nobody should have their house robbed. It’s not my fault if I leave the windows open, society should just teach our children not to rob houses!” This is what you Feminists sounds like.

    • MegaSolipsist

      Nobody SHOULD be robbed, and we DO teach our children not to steal, but some people grow up to be thieves anyway, and not taking basic precautions to prevent yourself from being robbed (however much we would love not to have to) is just stupid.

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