• Tue, Jan 1 2013

The Steubenville Gang Rape Victim Could Have Been Any Of Our Daughters [UPDATED]

twitteroccupysteubenvilleThe victim of the alleged Steubenville football team gang rape, the Jane Doe in the case, never deserved to be raped. As a mother with my own daughter, I can’t imagine how her parents must feel right now. I can’t imagine how she must feel right now. The gang rape victim, this Jane Doe, could have been any of our daughters, no matter how much we try to protect them.

Some of you are aware of the recent protest that took place a few days ago regarding the Steubenville, Ohio football team and an alleged gang rape that took place at a few different parties in August of 2012. The protest, held at the Steubenville city hall on December 29th, attracted around 300 people who wanted to make their voices heard in regard to the case, who felt that justice hasn’t been served for the young girl who was dragged like a corpse from party to party, violated by numerous people, and photographed and videotaped during these violations, the evidence posted on social media as callously as any other update, what someone ate for lunch or a picture of a cat or the status of the weather.

The protest was organized by Nightsec, a subgroup associated with Anonymous, who have been relentless in raising awareness about the case and demanding justice for the victim. Nightsec has organized an additional protest to be held on January 5th. Blogger Alexandria Goddard, aka Prinnie, recently was interviewed on Roseanne Barr’s radio show about the case, along with KyAnonymous.

I’ve been thinking a lot about the Steubenville Jane Doe, the anonymous victim of the gang rape. From the New York Times:

She is not a Steubenville High student; she attended a smaller, religion-based school, where she was an honor student and an athlete.

At the parties, the girl had so much to drink that she was unable to recall much from that night, and nothing past midnight, the police said. The girl began drinking early on, according to an account that the police pieced together from witnesses, including two of the three Steubenville High athletes who testified in court in October. By 10 or 10:30 that night, it was clear that the dark-haired teenager was drunk because she was stumbling and slurring her words, witnesses testified.

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  • Kai

    No-one ever deserves to be raped. No-one deserves any crime being done to them, no matter how much they failed to prevent it.

    But the fact is that this could only happen to anyone’s daughter *who chose to get drunk enough to black out at a party where she didn’t have a friend to take care of her*.

    That is a specific circumstance that not everyone has to get into, and not everyone does. It doesn’t make it her fault in any way, but it does show a clear way other girls can prevent it from happening to them (in the meantime until we live in a world where no-one commits any sexual crimes).

    I don’t have a daughter, but I can tell you that at that age, I never once drank until I couldn’t take care of myself. In fact, at my age, I have still never been drunk enough to black out, fall down, or otherwise be able to get home safely.

    This girl didn’t deserve her rape, but it can’t happen to your daughter unless she makes the same poor choices that enabled the (completely wrong to do so) perpetrators to commit this crime.

    • http://www.xojane.com/author/eve Eve Vawter

      I don’t care how drunk she was, she did not deserve to be raped. Being drunk never excuses rape. And in the case of our Jane Doe, there is some evidence to suggest she was roofied, as I said above.

    • Kai

      Did you read my comment at all???

      I very clearly stated my agreement that she did not deserve to be raped. I said that in my first sentence, and I said that in my last sentence. And twice more along the way, in one way or another.
      To repeat. No-one deserves to be raped. Let’s re-explain the logic.

      The fact that rapists are to blame for rape (not victims) doesn’t mean that there aren’t things people can do to prevent being a victim.

      It’s a thief’s fault if your wallet is stolen, not yours. But if you left your wallet lying around unattended, you made a mistake that made it possible for that crime to be committed. That same crime won’t happen to a person who doesn’t forget their wallet somewhere. (yes, they could still be pickpocketed. That’s a different crime and a different point.) Doesn’t mean you deserve it, but it does mean that it can be prevented, even with the existence of thieves in the world.

      Same thing goes here.

      From a legal and moral standpoint, the only one at fault for this assault is the perpetrators themselves.

      But when we’re talking societally, the fact that she wasn’t at fault doesn’t mean that it could happen to anyone. It could only happen to someone in the situation she was in (blackout drunk with no friends to take care of her).

      for those reading, it’s not something that could suddenly happen to them. It’s not something that could just suddenly happen to anyone’s daughter, without getting into the same situation.

      Unlike some crimes (and some rapes), there are things another person can do to prevent this crime happening to them. Doesn’t make it their fault if they fail to do so (that’s still the fault of the people who do the crime), but it does mean there’s something they can do about it.

      It is your premise that it could happen to anyone that I dispute, not the guilt of the perpetrators.

      As for roofies, you said “There are suggestions she may have been “roofied.”” ‘suggestions’. Not ‘evidence’. There are usually ‘suggestions’ of roofies, and the evidence usually comes up that nope, she just got herself really really drunk. If there is in fact ‘evidence’ that she was roofied, that would be a good addition to the article.

      Rape is awful. That doesn’t mean we have to ignore logic and reason when we talk about it.

    • LoveyDovey

      Actually, it is something that could “randomly” happen to them. Seeing as most rapes are committed by people known and often trusted by the victim, that’s one hell of a thing to get broadsided with. No amount of self-defense classes, mace, or whathaveyou, can fully prepare you for the moment a rapist in the guise of your father, brother, husband, friend, partner or other relative or acquaintance, decides to find a way to isolate and/or incapacitate you and violate you.

      No amount of martial arts classes could have prepared my mother for the night her own father drove her out into the countryside at 14 and raped her.

      No amount of weaponry would have prevented my then boyfriend from raping me that night and escalating his abuse- in fact, it would probably have made it more likely I would have died at his hands after having conveniently provided a tool for him to do what he’d already tried to do to me previously- murder me. Not to mention it’s not easy to fight someone off when they’re got you pinned on your stomach and are quite a bit stronger than you.

      You can’t approach this from some binary, black and white perspective, because by its very nature rape is a very messy, confusing crime, and no two situations are ever alike. Presenting it as such in the form of late advice makes it seem so and hurts rape survivors and victims even more than they’ve already been.

    • AlbinoWino

      I agree so much, LoveyDovey.

    • Kai

      As I’ve said many times, I was speaking about *this* crime which didn’t randomly happen without certain circumstances. Not rape in general.

    • AlbinoWino

      What you’re still arguing though is the fact that we should classify rapes as more or less likely to happen. I find this to be more hurtful than helpful. Why should it matter whether the victim took more or less precautions not to be assaulted? The end result is the same. Prostitutes probably get raped more than the average woman but that doesn’t make them more deserving or have to shoulder the blame more. Of course we should always educate women on prevention–there’s no issue there. But just because a woman didn’t take every necessary precaution doesn’t mean we need to sit and rehash everything she did wrong because obviously what’s done is done and there’s no going back.

      You’re starting to sound like a female judge out of AZ who told a woman who was groped under her skirt by a man (a cop) who was drunk at a bar telling the victim, “If you hadn’t been out that night this never would have happened to you.” Even if we as women didn’t go out past 8:00 pm, didn’t go to parties or bars, that doesn’t mean that rape won’t happen or that we deserve it less because we take every last precaution. I didn’t drink in high school but I did still sneak out and go to parties and something still could have happened to me. I don’t high five myself because those things never happened to me. That just makes me fortunate, not less deserving. When we have to sit and analyze the actions of the victim so much, we’re on a slippery slope and not doing much to get at the heart of the problem which sadly begins with men as rapists.

    • Kai

      No, not at all!
      From a legal standpoint, rape is rape.
      From an ethical standpoint, rape is rape.
      Judicially, it should matter not in the slightest what the girl does. There would have been no crime but for the criminal, and in this case the rapists deserve full punishment for the crime there is no excuse for them to have committed.
      When I talk about prevention, I am not speaking to victims. I am talking to potential victims. I direct my comments to other young girls, and urge them to avoid dangerous situations because it is one thing they can do, even if they by no means can completely prevent assault or any other crime.

    • LoveyDovey

      If you agree that the onus should be on the rapist, why are you STILL on about what women “should” do to avoid being raped?

      You and others who keep repeating the same arguments act like we don’t already get this advice pounded into us from high school on. But peer pressure and just plain being a teenager and human are also very powerful things. Sexism and strict, sometimes crippling gender roles are very powerful things, especially when we’re raised with them so that’s all we know. Abuse hampers our ability to defend ourselves and see ourselves as worth caring for.

      Stop hammering on this point. No matter how you try to phrase it, it still comes down to being another way for people to continue the false belief that men are animals with no control and that women are responsible for controlling these men, and are lesser if they “fail”.

    • Kai

      I’m saying what women could reasonably be advised to do to lower their chances. And I’m saying it because this article was about the victim, not about general crime, or the perpetrators, or anything else. It’s one small facet of a large discussion. I merely responded to the specific topic presented.

    • Maggie

      Kai, you need to stop digging yourself a giant hole. You referred to the teenage rape victim as an “enabler” of rapists. Do you think the young woman in Delhi, India who was gang-raped on a bus and died of her injuries “enabled” her rapists by getting on that bus? I think I speak for everyone else on this forum when I say: shut the fuck up, you ignorant shithead. Just do us all a favor and stop trying to defend your idiotic views.

    • whiteroses

      That’s an extremely long-winded way to blame a victim, isn’t it?

    • traciamc

      As it happens, in this case, the victim remembers nothing after being picked up at her house. That suggests that something was put into her drink. Because of the way this case was handled, they never tested her for drugs, and even if they had, the defense could say that she took them herself. She thought that these boys were her friends. I imagine when they offered her a drink, she didn’t think she would suddenly be incapacitated as she was.

      I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be vigilant with our daughters – God knows I am with mine. But the point is, we shouldn’t have to be. And the fact that a woman’s character is called into question when she is the victim is abhorrent, and it should be changed. Men need to teach their boys that having sexual activity when it is unwanted or the woman is incapable of giving consent is never OK. Never.

    • meteor_echo

      Okay, no. You really think that, if you avoid certain circumstances, you can avoid being raped? Or mugged? Or killed? Nope, doesn’t work that way.
      Once, when I was in my late teens, I went to my friend’s birthday party. I drank a bit too much, but I went to sleep into a separate room and locked the door from inside. Well guess what? My friend simply unscrewed the lock, opened the door and proceeded to rape me. Worst thing was, I remember it all, but I was too drunk and tired to even move. So no, staying “safe” will not help you. I guess you’ll say that I shouldn’t have gone to celebrate my friend’s birthday party… but what should the rapist have done?
      People are raped at gunpoint. People are raped by their friends. Or partners. We can be raped by strangers or by somebody we trust. And believing that you can simply avoid it is naive at best, because rapists do not do anything to “avoid” raping.

    • Kai

      No, I don’t think that taking reasonable precautions can prevent all crimes from happening to you. But it can lower your risk.
      People break into houses all the time and steal things. But most of us still lock our doors, because we figure it at least makes you someone less likely to be robbed than if you leave the doors wide open and your valuables sitting in the entryway…
      Similarly, we absolutely cannot prevent rape as a whole. You could be walking around in a park one day and be pulled behind a bush at gunpoint. There’s very little you can do to prevent that.
      But the fact that you can’t prevent being raped in rare and unlikely situations doesn’t mean that you can’t do some things to lower your risk.
      My point here was disputing that the situation mentioned could easily have happened to anyone at all, as the author wrote. As I mentioned, it simply could not have happened to me, because I don’t get blackout drunk. (That doesn’t mean I’m saying I could never be raped. Just that this incident couldn’t have happened to me.) Yours couldn’t have happened to me either – again, because I don’t get blackout drunk. That doesn’t mean I blame you for what happened. What happened was solely and completely the fault of your ‘friend’. I support programs to discourage sexual crimes and get men to understand what is included and to ensure they don’t ever commit one. I strongly support heavy punishment for people who rape. I don’t believe it is the fault of a victim for any crime.
      But I do believe there is value in saying to a young girl “Look. You can’t prevent every crime. It’s not your fault if a crime happens to you. Rape will never be your fault. Here are the things we are doing to try to create a world in which rape will not have to be a worry. But in the meantime, there are things you can do to lower some of your risks. Number one, don’t get blackout drunk. Especially not when you don’t have good friends around to take care of you. But better not to in the first place. Many crimes committed against women, and even just plenty of embarrassment cannot happen to you if you avoid getting blackout drunk. That is one thing you can do to keep yourself safer until we manage to create a world that is safe.”
      Same way we tell a person to lock their doors, pay attention to the location of their wallet, and leave their valuables at home, or lock them in the trunk if necessary.
      We can’t prevent all crime, but on every subject other than sexual assault, no-one has any problems with making recommendations to people for how to lower their risk, since we understand that unfortunately we live in a world where crime exists.
      Why must everyone lost all ability to reason when the word ‘rape’ comes up?

    • meteor_echo

      We “lose our ability to reason” because rape is unreasonable. And yes, it seems that you ARE blaming me (and the victim), by stating that, if her and I did not get drunk, our rapists would not rape us. Try replacing “drunk” with “disabled”and realize that people who commit crimes just take advantage of anyone who is weaker, regardless of the circumstances. Even if we lock the doors, even if we do not drink, we have things taken away from us. You know, just because if somebody is sick and twisted enough to rape, they’ll find a way to do it regardless of how we protect ourselves.

    • Kai

      You left your purse on the hood of your car when you went in to the store. It was stolen. Was it your fault or the thief’s? If you had not left your purse behind, it likely would not have been stolen. Plenty of thieves are willing to take the opportunity to grab an unattended purse but are not brazen enough to snatch it off your shoulder. So even if you can’t deter the determined purse-thief, by keeping it with you, you prevent some possible thefts, and lower your overall risk of theft. Does that make it your fault if you do forget it somewhere and it is stolen? Am I victim-blaming if I point out that your purse is less likely to be stolen if on your shoulder than if left on the hood of your car?
      Seriously, I’d be interested in your answers.

      When discussing an unreasonable act it is all the more important to keep hold of our reason and discuss rationally.
      Murder is very unreasonable, but somehow people seem to keep their heads better when discussing it.

      Okay, let’s replace drunk with disabled. That’s a great idea. “The cashier handed the blind woman her change, and said she was handing her a twenty, but actually handed her a five.” Obvious robbery. This couldn’t have happened if the woman wasn’t disabled. That’s a simple statement of fact. It isn’t blaming the woman for being disabled. It is simply explaining that action y required the presence of condition x. Of course, the woman can’t do anything about her blindness, but if you do have eyes and can choose whether or not to look at your change, it is advisable to receive your bills with your eyes open. If you were to close your eyes when getting your change back, you wouldn’t be able to prevent the crime that happened to the blind woman. It’s still the cashier’s fault for stealing, and if the cashier is determined she can follow you out of the store and pickpocket your wallet, and you’ll have a hard time preventing that. But you can prevent this.

      Drunk doesn’t equate with disabled though, because people have a choice about being drunk. and if women would refrain from getting blackout drunk, a lot of things can be prevented.

      A determined rapist will find a way. A violent rapist who is after power is going to look for a chance and keep looking until he finds one. But a lot of rape is also about opportunism. The facts in this case do not suggest that these boys would have gone out searching for girls to rape. But when they had an easier opportunity, they took it. That is terribly wrong, and they deserve full punishment for it. It’s not the girl’s fault. But it *is* something that a lot of girls can avoid, even if they can’t possibly avoid rape altogether.
      And in fact, the statistics hold up that traditional violent stranger rape is very rare. Opportunistic acquaintance rape when the victim is not in a state to consent is much more common. Not putting yourself in a situation where the latter can happen makes you a lot less likely to be raped in general.

    • LoveyDovey

      Kai, I get that you think you’re helping, but with all due respect, you’re not.

      When we keep focusing on the actions of the victim, and at the same time throw up our hands and sigh “boys will be boys” (in a sense), we’re not doing ANYTHING to either stop rapes or make the culture more inhospitable to rapists. Because as it stands now, no matter your intentions in talking about what the victims can do, it’s still coming across to victims as “I didn’t do enough to protect myself so must have deserved it” (not logical, but feelings aren’t, especially after such a violation), and to the rapists it’s just giving them the cover they need to get away with what they do. Again, I know it isn’t your intention to blame the victims, but that’s how it comes across. I know you don’t want to keep giving rapists an out, but as long as the general population holds a very narrow definition of rape (as you do), and as long as gender inequality persists, that’s what it is.

      That’s what people like me and other feminists are trying to do- raise women to an equal level with men so we’re not seen as objects, but people. Rape will be alleviated quite a bit, and cases that do happen will be taken seriously and given the effort and attention that they deserve. Instead of rapists protected by people either deliberately or not (it isn’t easy coming to terms with the fact that a friend may be a rapist, so some people deny it), they’ll be the ones ostracized in place of the victims being frozen out, as often happens. As what happened to me.

      We can’t keep trying to constantly modify or curtail our lives just to stay safe. Something has to give, and it MUST be the way we view and treat women all over the world.

    • http://www.xojane.com/author/eve Eve Vawter

      Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

    • Kai

      What I am doing is using my brain instead of my emotions. Obviously it’s impossible to rationally discuss something that people get emotional about. That’s unfortunate.
      If you read what I said, I have stated many times that we need to not accept rape, teach all people about how to avoid *being* a rapist, and punish rape very strongly.
      but in no other area of crime do we assume that being tough on crime and working to eradicate it is a good reason to stop taking personal precautions until crime is actually gone.
      I’m in favour of all the things you talk about. I think they are important. I just don’t think I (or other female people) should live in la-la land in the mean time.

      Is it ‘victim-blaming’ if the police tell people that they should always lock the doors of their house, and an alarm system can offer additional protection? Or is that a suggestion for lowering your risk?

    • LoveyDovey

      You’re missing my point.

      YOU may know these things, but most people? Most people don’t. Most people believe that a “true rape” is one where a stranger forcibly rapes a woman while holding a knife to her throat. Anything that falls outside of that very narrow idea of what rape is is where people believe a “gray area” exists, at best. At worst, it gives people an excuse to blame the victim. ANYTHING that fuels those excuses does NOTHING to help, especially when discussion about how to respond to the crime itself is almost nonexistent. I’m advocating for changing the dialogue.

      Not to mention, haven’t you noticed that this kind of advice tends to come out of the woodwork *after* a woman is raped? THAT is why it’s seen as blame. We do quite enough blaming of ourselves, thankyouverymuch. At this point, the girl at Steubenville has already been raped, what good does it do to keep going on about what she SHOULD have done? It’s just going to make her feel worse, and right now she needs reasons to push forward and recover, not reasons to keep rehashing what happened and beating herself up over it.

      Also, such advice very much ignores the fact that the majority of rapes are committed by people the victim knows and (this is the important part) trusts. THOSE are the cases that need the most attention, and that is sorely lacking.

    • LoveyDovey

      I’d also like to add, in no other incident of crime are victims constantly bludgeoned over the head with blame and advice, nor are they slandered to quite the extent that rape victims currently are.

      And that’s STILL besides the point that a robbery is IN NO WAY THE SAME THING AS RAPE. Comparing the two is absurd. Whatever is stolen in a robbery can, for the most part, be replaced quite easily and while it sucks horribly and is in a way a violation as well, the victim can more easily move on.

      Rape, however, strikes at the very core of a person, sometimes destroying them. It is taking a human being and reducing them to nothing more than a receptacle for a man’s anger, rage, entitlement, and powerlessness among other things. Others will judge a woman for this crime, will also see her as less. Someone once commented about me that “(Rapist) has broken her for everyone else.”

      No other crime carries the kind of stigma that being a rape victim does. Comparing rape to something like theft does not a damn thing to make things better.

    • Kai

      I’m not comparing rape victims to theft victims. I’m using an analogy. But apparently no-one else here has any understanding as to how those work.

    • LoveyDovey

      It is a very poor analogy.

    • Kai

      For the following reasons…

    • http://twitter.com/mariaguido Guerrilla Mom

      I think you should just own up to your opinion, instead of victim blaming and then writing paragraphs explaining that you’re really not and faulting the reader for not having enough comprehension to understand your point.
      From what I read, your point is that the majority of rapes happen because rapists are opportunists and women put themselves in positions to be taken advantage of.

      Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Your opinion clearly places fault with the victim. That is victim-blaming.

    • Kai

      Answer one of my analogies.
      If statistics suggest that a majority of wallet-snatchings happen when people leave them unattended (though some are due to determined pickpockets), am I blaming victims of theft to suggest that it’s a good idea to keep hold of your wallet?

    • AlbinoWino

      Maybe you should just stop using analogies because having your wallet stolen (whether you failed to prevent it or not) will probably never come close to being equal to being raped. If I were raped I wouldn’t find much use for the game of what ifs. Want to talk prevention for women? Fine, I am all for it. I offer that advice to the girl I mentor all the time and I will to my own sister when she gets a little older. But why aren’t we turning more of the focus on the perpetrators? THAT is the part we struggle with. It’s all about girls can’t get drunk but boys can and will and whatever happens happens. Sitting around and pointing at something and saying it was preventable and yes, victim blaming, does absolutely nothing. Breaking down a situation to pinpoint each area where it could have done differently becomes a waste of time. Why rehash every last detail of something awful that happened as an audience when we weren’t even there? Prevention has to be comprehensive…not just, “you got blackout drunk and that’s what happens”. You didn’t drink a lot when you were younger and that’s just fine and dandy. Doesn’t mean that you deserve it less.

    • Kai

      why do you assume that because I respond to a conversation about one concept that I oppose all others?

      This article was not “Those stueubenville boys could have been any of our sons”. If it were, I would have responded with talk about the perpetrators.

      This article was “this victim could have been any of our daughters”. And I thus responded to the question of the victim.

      I could use murder as an analogy instead (would it be victim-blaming of the police to suggest that you shouldn’t go walking around downtown Detroit at night because there are a lot of accidental shootings?), but people have demonstrated a lack of capacity to reason, so I doubt it will do any better.

      As for drinking, I have a long list of reasons boys shouldn’t get blackout drunk either. Higher likelihood of rape is just one item on the girls’ list.

    • LoveyDovey

      No, you’re just demonstrating a lack of capacity to consider what other people have ACTUALLY been through, and apparently think that because it doesn’t line up with your own thoughts, that we’re the ones being “irrational”. Now, I’m not accusing you of being a misogynist, but that right there is a VERY common way for misogynists to shut down any conversations about this or other equality discussions. Might want to think about that.

    • Kai

      I’m asking people to use reason to discuss the issue despite the difficult emotions that come up.
      I’m all for equality (certainly thankful to the women before who enable the things I can do today), but I’d like to see some equality of fact-based discussion.

    • LoveyDovey

      Except at this point people are beating a dead horse when they go on and on and on about what the victim should or should not have done. I’m sick of seeing it. LOTS of people are sick of seeing it. Ascribing rape prevention solely to the actions of a woman is wrong and missing the bigger picture.

      Once again, it is putting the focus wrongly on the victim that gives serial rapists the tools they need to create enough doubt to cast on the victim so they can get away with what they do. People would be judging and blaming this girl even if she’d only had ONE drink. Stop giving rapists that kind of wiggle room.

    • Kai

      I have the ability to do two things at once. I support efforts to teach boys not to rape, and to promote gender equality, and to work towards a world in which rape doesn’t exist. I also support teaching girls what things they can do to keep themselves safer in the interim until we can create that world. I can have a conversation about the idea as a whole, or one small part.

      It is a poor assumption that a discussion about one area (in response to an article about that one area) means we don’t think the rest is important as well.

    • LoveyDovey

      Except that is exactly what is happening right now anyway in every corner of the internet.

      Women and girls all over the world are already taught, from a young age, what they can do to try to avoid rape, but not only does that conversation dominate the landscape, it is often horribly wrong and horribly one-sided.

      YOU may claim to be able to discuss both, but most people either can’t or won’t, because of entrenched myths, beliefs and falsehoods.

      The discussion of what to do to avoid rape is usually phrased in such a way as to lead people to think that if it does happen that it is the victim’s fault, that men can’t control themselves. It also ignores the more prevalent cases of rape.

      Also, just because you can occasionally throw in a token acknowledgement of the rapist’s actions, doesn’t negate the fact that you also largely focus on the victim’s actions and continue to perpetuate the “doing X will lead to Y” model of “advice”, which still puts blame on the victims and still gives rapists an out, and you do it on the internet after the fact, which only hammers home the idea that she’s to blame for what happened. I don’t CARE what your intentions are, that is how it comes across.

      You don’t do the “coulda woulda shoulda” game after the fact. Every woman who has ever been the victim of rape plays that game, and if alcohol or drugs were a factor in some way, believe me, they consider that. Harping from everyone else about it just twists the knife and does no good whatsoever. Pointing to them and saying “See, don’t do this or you’ll be a target for rape” is furthering the “doing X will lead to Y” belief and further hurt the victim.

    • Kai

      When people on this site discuss Kate nee Middleton’s pregnancy, do we assume that means they don’t care about the plight of women in developing countries?
      A discussion about one area does not need to be a discussion about everything at once.

      The apparent fact that many people can’t or won’t discuss both sides is no reason for me to limit myself.

    • Kai

      I’ve changed my mind. I am a misogynist. Not one trying to force you to shut up, but one trying to force you to discuss something using reason. It didn’t work. It would now be appropriate to call me a misogynist. I have come out of this thread thinking much less of women in general, and uncertain whether to feel bad for women’s lack of intellectual capacity, or frustrated with women’s refusal to use it.

      So I will now come out as a misogynist. Damn, I hate the way so many people represent my sex/gender…

    • Makabit

      Oh, get over yourself.

    • CMJ

      “Opportunistic acquaintance rape when the victim is not in a state to consent is much more common. Not putting yourself in a situation where the latter can happen makes you a lot less likely to be raped in general.”

      UGH. Just ugh on you. So basically – you’re telling me to stay home and not do anything. Because, by your standards, going to a bar and having a couple drinks (or more than a couple) just means I’m putting myself out there for an “opportunistic rapist.”

    • Kai

      If rapists didn’t rape, women could do whatever the hell they want. I think we should work towards a world in which that is the case. It would be nice to live in a world where there was no crime, and we didn’t have to lock our doors, hold on to our wallets, and watch our drinks.

      But until we successfully create that world, I think it’s worth pointing out ways to stay safer in this world.

      And one of them is to not willingly put yourself in a position where it’s easy to be taken advantage of.

      Would you suggest a skinny white guy walk down certain streets in certain cities at 2am flashing a big wad of cash? I mean, he should have the right to, right?

    • CMJ

      Your entire point was invalidated by saying “would a skinny white guy walk down some streets in certain cities at 2am. . .?” Ugh.

      I actually don’t put myself in the situations you mention…well, at least I try not to…the bottom line is, no matter how hard I try or how much I attempt to shield myself from the atrocities of this world ..IT COULD STILL HAPPEN. Yes, I don’t get blackout drunk and go to parties with no friends to take of me…but people do. It doesn’t mean they should be raped.

    • Kai

      Well hey, that’s a good point. How is a point about something that no-one should do invalidated by talking about a specific subset of ‘no-one’?
      But we don’t think it’s that ‘no-one’s’ fault if he gets stabbed, do we? We just still thing it’s worth pointing out that it’s a bad idea.

    • scp1957

      Are you intentionally evading the fact that Kai was merely imprecise where he used the word “avoid”, where “minimize” would have been more on point?

      P.S. I hope that you gelded your “friend” at the first opportunity.

    • meteor_echo

      They should have used the word “minimize” if they wanted to bring their point across.
      And no, nobody believed me. Just as the friend said while he was raping me. Well, at least my boyfriend does, so there’s that.

    • Kai

      Thank you scp1957 for your reading comprehension and reason!

      In this case, it was actually a different word on which I was imprecise.

      What I said could be avoided was ‘this crime’ not ‘any rape’.
      *This* specific crime could not happen to anyone (as suggested), because ‘anyone’ would have first had to get blackout drunk with no friends around to take care her. As explained further below for those with poor reading comprehension, I didn’t mean to suggest that one can prevent rape in general, or crime in general with precautions. But that *this* crime could not have happened to anyone who took certain precautions, and if you can lower your risk of certain crimes, that’s still a lower overall likelihood of crimes when added with the possibilities you can’t do a thing about.

    • mindfuller

      “This girl didn’t deserve her rape, but it can’t happen to your daughter
      unless she makes the same poor choices that enabled the (completely
      wrong to do so) perpetrators to commit this crime.”

      This is not exactly true. It can happen to your daughter – or anybody else – regardless of any choices they make. We have no control over another person’s actions.

      As for making poor choices, perhaps we should stop applying adult judgement to these adolescents. What teenager hasn’t made a poor choice? It’s the very process that is part of growing up: we learn from our mistakes.

      This girl and her actions should not be judged by anyone, let alone strangers on the internet. There was a time when I would have agreed with the comment above. I have since learned a lot about the myths around rape perpetuated by our society.

      We would do well to be a little more mindful of how we think and what we say. Read more at http://mindfuller.tumblr.com/post/39336485179/step-one

    • Kai

      I don’t judge this girl.
      I suggest that other young girls may want to learn and avoid putting themselves in the same situation.
      I have more faith in teenagers than you. They are not children. They can respond to incentives. Most have the sense not to walk around certain downtown cities at 2am (male or female). They can have the sense not to get blackout drunk when they learn about all the problems that can cause (extending far beyond rape).
      I say this as a person who was a teenage girl and was perfectly capable of deciding that drinking to blacking out was a stupid idea.

    • LoveyDovey

      Except as it turns out, teenagers weight risk and reward much differently than adults do, and not all people think the way you do, or have your same experiences and upbringing.

      Also, advocating putting this girl’s horrific story up as a cautionary tale? YOU may not judge her, but others sure as hell will and already do. She is NOT to be made an example of.

    • Kai

      All the more reason for adults to explain the reasoning to teens.
      Every single incident ever should be a learning experience. Everyone always should look around them and learn from what others do and don’t do and what happens to others.
      Otherwise you’re stuck making every bad mistake (and running into its consequences) yourself. And that’s just unnecessary.

    • LoveyDovey

      “Everyone always should look around them and learn from what others do and don’t do and what happens to others.”

      Telling people to do that in cases of rape is what furthers the false notion that if a person does X, Y and Z, they won’t get raped, and just gives them ammunition to blame someone if they are raped, no matter the circumstances of the rape itself.

      Should kids of both genders be taught about not abusing alcohol? Certainly. Are people still going to try it and get really drunk, maybe even blackout drunk? Yes. They may very well misjudge how much they can tolerate, how much they’re drinking, etc. But we’re human and we make mistakes. Nobody should be made to feel that being raped is a consequence of drinking- it’s not, and that’s the message being sent by comments like yours. Being raped is simply having the misfortune of being in the same room as a rapist (or multiple as the case may be), and rapists don’t exactly wear signs advertising that fact.

      How are THOSE for some facts?

    • mindfuller

      This. Them apples. That is all.

    • mindfuller

      “I don’t judge this girl.”

      Throughout your many comments here, you are judging this girl and the situation surrounding her rape (as we all are). The fact that you seem to not understand that you are doing this suggests to me that you are struggling a little with “reading comprehension” or comprehension in general yourself.

      “I suggest that other young girls may want to learn and avoid putting themselves in the same situation.”

      While you seem to mean this well, I have no idea why this girl *really* ended up in the situation that she did, and neither do you. Sure, teenagers “can have the sense not to get blackout drunk when they learn
      about all the problems that can cause (extending far beyond rape)” but blaming the victim (and others) is more than unhelpful. It perpetuates certain untruths about rape that have profound consequences for our society and the individuals within it. You can read more about the effects of rape myth endorsement and ingroup/outgroup dynamics here http://mindfuller.tumblr.com/post/39336485179/step-one

      “I have more faith in teenagers than you.”

      Really? What do you know about my faith in teenagers? For someone who clearly considers themselves intelligent, you might want to consider applying your judgement (which draws on malleable, impermanent and difficult-to-define things like values, morals and world-view) so arbitrarily.

    • bsbfankaren

      Why do people keep responding to what this person says? It’s a lesson in futility!

    • traciamc

      And yet I did it! *facepalm* LOL

    • http://chrissmari.org ChrissMari

      “but” negates what you have to say before it.

    • meh

      So if a young girl drinks, she risks getting raped? If a girl hangs out with the wrong crowd, she risks getting raped? If she likes sex, she risks being raped? So if she acts in morally questionable ways, that’s the only way she’ll get raped?

      Huh. Wish I would of knew that when I was raped at 18, completely sober (and had never been drunk before), a virgin (let alone I had never kissed a boy or dated a one), and by a friend that I had known since 3rd grade. Where did this happen? At my friend’s house during a holiday sleepover (not the rapist’s, but a mutual friend) and there was no alcohol there. As far as I know, everyone was completely sober.

      But yeah, it was my fault. I should have screamed more, should have kicked him more, or whatever to stop him. Yup, cause 5’1″ me had a chance of beating up a 6’4″ guy. The threat of “There will be hell to pay” shouldn’t have fazed me. I shouldn’t have spent the night with people that I trusted completely for more than half of my life. I let him do that to me, cause I was a dumb, naive, girl. I should not have let him in my pants. Even though he was my friend for 10 years, I should not have trusted him, because all guys are rapists just waiting for the opportunity. That and I did this all for attention. I was just an attention seeking whiny teenage girl.

      Or at least, that’s what everyone told me- my parents, my best friends, a police officer. So he got out perfectly fine and got his rocks off, while I’ve had to suffer with depression, suicidal thoughts, PTSD/RTS, and crippling anxiety for the last couple years. Makes college a real blast.

      So yeah, even shy, nerdy girls that get straight A’s in high school, graduate at the top of their class, don’t party and drink at all, and have never seen a penis is real life, can get raped by people they trusted with their life.

    • http://www.facebook.com/christine.anthony.16 Christine Anthony

      Actually it can and does happen to girls who don’t make poor choices. Girls and women, men and boys are all capable of being raped regardless of what lifestyle choices they make. It can happen anytime, anywhere.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rosemary.fitzgerald.7 Rosemary Fitzgerald Hewitson

    How about a conversation with sons about inappropriate sexual situations! I’m so fed up with the conversations with girls about preventing rape, what about the guys? What about talking to kids about when a sex act is criminal and should be reported, not posted to Facebook. While we’re at it can we delete to connection between rape and deserve.

    • Kai

      That’s a great idea!

      but since that won’t completely stop sexual assaults from happening, it is still reasonable to talk to girls about lowering their risk in the meantime.

      Do you think that talking to your children about not stealing is enough protection, or do you lock your doors when you leave your house?

    • http://helloalle.com/ Alle

      If you report your house being broken into, though, you’re generally taken seriously by the authorities and not called a liar. The police won’t drag their feet on coming to your house when it’s been broken into, and they also won’t say “Whoops, budget cuts, we can’t process this evidence” or “Sorry, the evidence was improperly collected and now there’s no proof you were burgled at all” afterwards. You will never be pressured to drop the case if the person responsible for robbing you is apprehended. If you’ve ever invited someone into your home, that’s not used against you in court.

      If rape and theft were treated the same way, then your analogy would hold up. Since it doesn’t, I’m with Rosemary.

    • Kai

      What comes after the crime is a completely different issue. when it comes to preventing it, it’s still nice to do what you can.
      I don’t see why people assume that telling women how to lessen their chances of a certain crime in any way suggest that we don’t also want to change the culture that allows the crime in the first place. I support all those initiatives as well – but in the meantime, I’d like to keep myself safe.

    • London

      Yes, you are. And you should definitely stop comparing women/teenagers to inanimate objects if you want anyone to even consider your point of view.

    • Kai

      *sigh*. another one with no reading comprehension.
      Please direct your brain to the definition of ‘analogy’.

    • CMJ

      Kai, you keep mentioning that others have a hard time with reading comprehension or do not know the definition of an analogy…but, when you scroll down at these comments, it is very clear that the majority of us can read and comprehend what you’re are saying – we just completely disagree.

    • Kai

      I’ve yet to see someone take issue with the substance of an analogy. Just ‘You shouldn’t compare rape victims to things or theft victims’. I’ve yet to hear why we should tell people ways to avoid all sorts of other crimes (while doing what we can societally to lessen the crime period) but shouldn’t ever talk about the same things in regard to rape.
      I’ve yet to hear why it’s not victim-blaming to say ‘that guy really shouldn’t have been there’ when a drunk man is accidentally shot walking through a neighbourhood known for gang violence, but it is victim-blaming to say ‘that girl really should have been there’ when a drunk girl is raped at a party.

    • AlbinoWino

      Analogies are pretty useless in this situation because the reality is if a person as you says walks through an area known for gang violence and is murdered, they’re not going to take that killer to trial and say well, you may be bad but that guy just shouldn’t have been there. The sad and terrible reality for rape victims is that often everything about them can be dragged through a trial. How much did you drink, do you remember giving consent, how many people have you been sexually active with, how often do you go do parties, etc. Again, we can do everything “right” and still be victims of sexual violence. You could call any tiny thing into question that a victim did and try to claim it had something to do with their rape. She dressed provocatively. She’s known for sleeping around. She flirts too much. I don’t dispute the fact that drinking heavily at a party isn’t a good idea but we also acknowledge that no one will always make the very best decision in every situation.

      The point is that you’re targeting one action (getting drunk at a party) and saying hey, I never did that and therefore I was never raped. Fine. But there are many actions that may or may not have that as a terrible end result. You enter the slippery slope when you try to point to one thing as an issue in that problem. By your logic I am careless and worthy of some blame because I as a woman walk lots of places at night alone and am not entirely always sure if they are “good neighborhoods” or not. We can be victims of crime anywhere and once you find one thing that could lead to raising the likelihood, you’re still always going to find more.

    • CMJ

      Thank you. I just didn’t have it in me to keep going.

    • LoveyDovey

      I am not NEARLY as good at explaining my point as you are. Thanks.

    • Kai

      So basically, because some people say things that are asinine, we all have to to avoid saying anything that could lead to other people saying anything asinine, instead of everyone recognising that certain suggestions are asinine and ignoring them to be able to discuss something.

      I am targeting one action, and saying that the avoidance of that would have prevented *this* assault from happening.
      I have stated many many times, that where I may think you are ‘careless’, I do NOT follow with therefore you are ‘to blame’ in any way for a crime being committed against you.
      and that fact that another person may make that incorrect assumption is no reason for me to cater to that stupidity by refraining from a comment about what *you* can do for your own safety.

    • CMJ

      THOSE BOYS NOT RAPING HER WOULD HAVE PREVENTED *THIS* ASSAULT FROM HAPPENING. Have you seen the videos? These boys are horrible human beings.

      Bottom Fucking Line. (excuse my language and Kanye-Caps)

    • Kai

      Yes. You are correct. But let’s face it here – we live in a world with horrible human beings.
      That part you can’t change. We can certainly work towards it and hopefully change things in time, but you can’t wake up today and make horrible human beings not exist. The ease with which horrible human beings are able to hurt you is one thing you can influence.

    • LoveyDovey

      “I am targeting one action, and saying that the avoidance of that would have prevented *this* assault from happening.”

      How is that NOT blaming the victim? That is just another way of saying that she was raped BECAUSE she was drinking. No, she was raped because those boys *chose* to rape her.

      I’m not ignoring the fact that she drank too much, but I’m sick of people like you pointing to that and saying that she wouldn’t have been raped if she hadn’t done that. Chances are they probably would have raped her even if she wasn’t passed out. HER DECISION TO DRINK DID NOT CAUSE HER RAPE. Plenty of men have seen a woman passed out at a party and did NOT rape her. The actions of those boys lie strictly with them.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1440718046 Christine Shaughnessy

      how do we know those boys didn’t drug her drink? she seemed to be really out of it. if she had gotten that way from drink only, wouldn’t she be vomiting? i heard nothing from her on that awful tape, only those horrible boys. i would hate to be one of their mothers. how disgusting they are.

    • LoveyDovey

      It’s because telling the victims what to do- how they should change their behavior to suit the culture- dominates the dialogue, well over the discussion we NEED to be having, which is how the culture needs to change so women can function as fully-recognized human beings and not walking targets.

      Seriously, go to any other article about this or any other rape, count up how many comments are directed at what the victim should do/have done, and how many are calling for a change in society. You’ll find the former heavily outweighs the latter.

    • Kai

      I can’t personally stop men from raping. I can personally lower my chances of being raped. That’s why it’s worth thinking about it.
      My only issue with this article is the concept that this incident could have happened to ‘anyone’ which is simply not true.

    • http://www.facebook.com/john.f.kreidler John F Kreidler

      Kai, if you mean *those* to boys couldn’t have raped my daughter because she wasn’t at that party because she lives 2000 miles away and she is in pre-school, then yeah…you are technically right. If you mean that if those two boys, at that same party, had found a girl who hadn’t been drinking but was passed out because she had a medical condition such as epilepsy, a hidden brain tumor, or diabetes they wouldn’t have raped her, then you are intentionally blinding yourself to the obvious. The obvious being that if these boys had been taught to think of rape as a crime of extreme abuse and evil this would not have happened, unless their is a mental health issue and then they should have been removed from society for treatment. Nothing increases the odds of getting raped better than a rapist.

    • whiteroses

      But the thing is, it could have. If you have one drink- and its drugged? Then yeah, it could happen to you. This idea that any woman is safe from rape if she’s careful enough is simply not true- which is why we need to speak out against it. Constantly. That’s why these kids in Steubenville- and the victim herself- need to know that we’re not going to forget what happened to her. We’re not ever going to forget it. This is why the family of the New Delhi rape victim needs to know that we won’t forget what happened to her either. The defense lawyer in New Delhi said that he’d “never heard of a respectable woman being raped in New Delhi”. Doesn’t that bother you? As the mother of a son, I consider it doubly important to fight against this “rape culture”. Just because it might not happen to you doesn’t mean that it stops happening.

    • bsbfankaren

      Father’s need to be willing to talk to their son’s from a young age, to teach them that getting a girl intoxicated is not an excuse to them have sex with her, or to participate when other’s have sex with her. Until that happens, there is no way to fully protect our daughter’s from young men who’s father’s may have done the same thing, at the same age.

    • Crissy S.

      Amen! Very well said!

  • Samantha_Escobar

    This was beautifully written, and the last paragraph is exactly my wishes, as well.

  • http://twitter.com/HollysHere Holly Briley

    Rape continues to be the only crime in which the victim is blamed. Its bullsh!t and it has to stop! Thanks so much for keeping this story out there for all to see. Steubenville can no longer close its borders and hide it’s secrets. We just will not allow it.

  • NJ truth

    Of course she didn’t DESERVE to get raped, do drug addicts deserve to OD, or get killed buying drugs in newark, or the bronx? do people who ride in cars w drunk drivers DESERVE to die in horrible fiery accidents? No, but these are the kinds of things that happen when u put yourself in ridiculous situations. I believe the boys involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent, but i believe, better yet. this girl should never have BEEN at this party in the first place… her life, her parents lives would be a lot easier, cuz justice can’t always “fix” things. I hope this girl learned a valuable lesson, and I hope other girls, pay attention to this nationwide coverage , and take a valuable lesson from it too.

    • CMJ

      A valuable lesson?

      CANNOT EVEN.

    • NJ Truth

      yes, a valuable lesson. that lesson being, don’t go to strange parties w/ shitty “friends” and get so drunk that you’re completely defenseless. some people have to suffer as reminders to others to TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY… i don’t ride in cars w drunk drivers, i don’t shoot up drugs, and i certainly don’t go anywhere and get so incapacitated that unsavory people can rob, rape, or even kill me. this story, while tragic will hopefully serve as a discussion point, of WHAT NOT TO DO IF YOU DON’T WANT TO BE VICTIMIZED, and hopefully spare other people from having to go through what Jane Doe, 16, suffered. Yeah, A VAL-U-A-BLE LES-SON.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1015785306 Michelle Pittman

      she dated one of the football players for a long while and probably assumed (obviously very wrongly) that the guys she was with were her FRIENDS and wouldn’t DO such a thing…

    • bsbfankaren

      I am sure she didn’t arrive at the party alone. Why didn’t the person who brought her to the party attempt to protect her? Keep the vermin off of her?

    • bsbfankaren

      So, in your opinion the young lady is at fault her, and so those who took the time to stand by and watch or take photos to post online, are simply doing her a favor? Please! I would suspect that at least one young man got seriously intoxicated that night as well. Should we have expected someone to rape him as well? Of course not, so why blame the female victim? She did make a terrible choice, but so did the young men who decided to take advantage of said choice.

    • me

      You sound like my mother when I told her of my gang rape at 17;…shame on you, and oh, may you rot in hell.

    • whiteroses

      What you don’t get- and what people like you will never understand- is that a girl should be able to waltz into a party completely naked and get drunk off her ass, and walk away without her dignity and peace of mind stolen. Yeah, something like that wouldn’t be smart. But the point is, nobody should ever be afraid to be raped, no matter how drunk they are. And she’s 16- she may not have known that her friends were shitty. Even if they were, she shouldn’t be afraid of drinking around them.
      No, it’s not a valuable lesson. Not for the girl who was raped. This will haunt her for the rest of her life. Nodianos and Richmond and their ilk made sure of that. And if you think a girl needs to be raped to learn ANYTHING, then you are a horrible human being.

    • Makabit

      The criminals who assaulted this young woman need to learn a ‘valuable lesson’ through being convicted of felony rape charges and serving prison terms for what they did.

    • http://www.facebook.com/RetiredSceneQueen Emmali Lucia

      So according to you no girl should ever go to a house party or any other sort of party again? Okay, because that makes a TON of sense. We should just stay at home and knit?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Louise-McOrmond-Plummer/669021693 Louise McOrmond Plummer

      So, rape is a “lesson”. Wow. Right. And car accidents and OD’s are not analogous to crimes of violence. Some people should never have BEEN let loose with a keyboard. Idiot.

  • Tonya

    This entire situation is terrible but after 4 minutes of this video I seriously want to vomit! If these boys were my offspring I would likely have to be stopped from killing them myself! I have a 13 year old and a 10 year old son and they will be talked to about respect for other people again! So very disturbing, they think that this is a big joke and couldn’t care less about this poor female! What are we raising our children to be? So sad!

    • bsbfankaren

      Unfortunately there are not enough mother’s like you who will choose to tell their son’s specifically that it is not O.K. to treat a fellow student like a semen receptacle just because their friends are doing it, or to sit back and watch something like this happen and take photos to post online!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1015785306 Michelle Pittman

    i am so tired of all the comments and long standing opinions regarding rape…instead of talking to our daughters about ways to prevent getting raped, how about we talk to our BOYS ABOUT NOT RAPING GIRLS?!?!?!?!!?!?

  • bsbfankaren

    I simply want to understand why we don’t teach our daughter’s to protect each other? When they see a young woman who is clearly incapable of protecting herself, why no one is willing to step in and protect her? I get that some would have been hesitant to call the police because of the underage drinking, but who is it that no two or more teenage girls could not have stood up and say no on this their peer’s behalf? Why? I am just as disgusted by the young women who stood by, watch and may have also taken and posted pictures, as I am at the young men who participated in this horrific act!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-Sanford/100000119110135 Mark Sanford

    Amazing how no one ever learns their lesson when it comes to stuff like this. Does the Duke rape case ring a bell? Not a single person has been convicted of anything, yet we get people writing about how horrible the football team is, etc. etc. The presumption of innocence? Who cares about that, right?

    • LoveyDovey

      Except that there is a TON of evidence provided by the people at the parties- photos, video, eyewitness testimony- in this case, whereas in the Duke case there was not.

  • TripleS

    A rather slanted article, not surprising. Firstly, nothing has been proven here yet except a bunch of drunk boys sitting around taking out their asses. Is it gentlemanly? No. Honorable? Hardly. But it sounds to a degree like their B.S. went viral and a whole world has decided to interpret and read things into it that may or may not be accurate. Hence the term, “innocent until proven guilty.” It could very well be that the girl is also just deeply ashamed and as in cases of recent history, may be fanning the hysteria to make herself less culpable in the eyes of her parents or peers. I don’t blame her in a way, but it may also be parcel to skewing the public perception of what really transpired. If a rape did occur, or some other molestation, then let the individuals be held accountable. But in this intensely emotional hour, its all the more important to look at the facts of the incident for what they are and not what the mob wants them to be.

  • CalderonMexico

    One really must ask: What kind of parents are raising boys/men like that? Boys/men
    that rape and urinate on a girl who is unconscious? These are not healthy boys/men,
    these are sick boys, and because they are sick, they are dangerous and destructive
    to the moral fabric of our society, to the success of our society. On top of what
    they did –rape and rape again and again and again an unconscious girl–to a human being, they almost murdered her. They didn’t seem to care. They actually were thrilled at the possibility that she was dead. Ugh? They come from families that have raised their boys to be this way? The parents are to blame
    as much as the boys. I have many nephews who are outstanding citizens. They
    would never ever ever do something like what these Steubenville boys did, nor
    would their outstanding parents, fathers included. If they had been there, they
    would have stopped the situation. Imagine if those men are ever armed someday.
    They are sick individuals. I pray that my daughters never get near those kind
    of boys ever in their lives or if they do they have a lawyer or reporter or
    police officer (or all three) with them if they are not the reporters or the
    police officers or lawyers themselves (which they probably will be, as I am
    raising girls to know misogyny and to protect themselves and all others against
    it–and not by buying a gun). I grew up in Ohio with football and credit that culture (of parents and booster clubs and overly praised boys) for my dropping out of high school, just to get out of there, and eventually earning a Ph. D. in anthropology, becoming a professor at an Ivy League university and writing/teaching about gender issues every since. I just hope that my daughters never have to ever even meet those kind of boys and I feel so sorry that this young girl–or any girls ever anywhere–had to come into contact with such horrendous misogynists. Hopefully she’ll find the courage to go arond the country lecturing to high school “children” about her experiences, using the names of those who did it to her, and helping young women and men become outstanding citizens, in spite of their parents and football/sports/misogynist culture that surrounds them. There is no doubt, that this persecution of her and other girls will continue and in this town, especially if she comes out and talks about it publicly. Misogyny runs deep, and the parents of these boys will no doubt call this young girl all sorts of misogynistic names. I hope she stands her ground. Meanwhile, thank you New York Times and Anonymous for raising the awareness of this outrageous behavior in this Ohio town.

  • Sam

    Three minutes into this video and I closed it, couldn`t keep watching it. Horrible what happened to her and to top things off, the things the mothers of these boys are saying about Jane Doe. It just shows you that these boys are rotten because their parents are rotten as well. Steubenville is a dirty, rotten and horrible place to raise kids. Two more Jane Doe`s have come forward now that Anonymous has ousted these jerks saying they too were victimized by these same boys. And you think nobody knew? Total BS. The worst thing here is I can`t believe this whole town is rotten, every single human being witnessing these atrocities and not one came forward on this night to stop these sorry excuses of human beings. We don`t need anymore Penn State`s or Big Red any more. People stand up to these perverts for the love of God. REPORT THEM ALL!!! Instead of us having to explain to our girls of how to go around in bars, why don`t parents teach and talk to their sons about not being complete jerks? I`m so infuriated.

  • Abby

    I feel for this rape victim. I can’t imagine what this has done to her. BUT I don’t think it should be accepted that your underage child will drink, lie, or sneak out. I grew up in a household where drinking and sneaking out would be absolutely impossible at that young of age. I have 2 little girls and I don’t look to the future and assume my daughters will one day sneak behind my back and get drunk. Especially at 16. I’ve noticed the world has changed for the worse. When I was young I would ride my bike around the neighborhood with no supervision at a younger age than my daughters. Now at 7 & 8 I would never let them do that. We must try to protect our children. We CAN stop them from going out and getting drunk at a young age. We CAN’T stop what is happens to them when we decide it’s okay to just turn a blind eye to what they are probably doing. If it takes not having sleepovers at that age so be it. IT will so worth it. Maybe my daughters will never see it that way but I did fine without sleepovers. How many parties was that girl dragged too? How many people watched and did nothing? Ultimately a parent is the only one that can protect their child.

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  • r.gorman

    All these accusations of rape, gangrape, being drugged etc, is all really about the morals of this girl and her parents. If they had each taken it upon themselves to not be exposed to this situation-a room full of boys she wanted-this would never have happened. Think about it, how convenient that this girl happened to play the rape card and claim she has no recollection of it happening. How the parents never noticed she was gone or what she may have been wearing or where she even went. It all smells of her being involved in a nice little high school tryst that she later wanted to deny. Jane Doe is nothing but a little whore liar who decided to fall back on the one thing she could say to keep her parents from disowning her; rape.

    http://www.reputationchanger.com

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  • http://twitter.com/Nilda27x Jo

    GANG RAPE? you’re ridicolous

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